Few words about this guy

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@Ace of Spades @Jungibaaz

Excellent posts from both of you. Yes, let's get into more specifics elsewhere.

Something that was touched upon that needs to be looked into in more detail with respect to the 'motivations of the Establishment' - the Zardari led PPP government losing in the elections to the PMLN despite being pretty compliant to the military.

 

[That Guy]

@That Guy We will see exactly how successful Modi is in the near future. "Success" is on the streets of New Delhi, UP, Rajastan. Do not get impressed by his slogans and supporters.

The topic deserves its own thread, and should be kept out of Pakistani politic threads, least trolls get attracted here.

Please actually read my comments before replying, or tagging me. I was in no way shape or form defending Modi, I was merely pointing out some of his sound economic policies.

 

[Nilgiri]

I can only admire your dedication, given its futility.

It was an excellent read for me...it was not in vain in that sense .

One can argue this whole forum (and online forums more generally) are ultimately futile anyway

Khan comes to power, and now he is surrounded by establishment types in his own cabinet, he takes dictation far far more than either PPP or PMLN, and his government and his premiership is propped up by establishment parties. And at the first sign from the establishment, these parties will dump IK and help overthrow him. IK won't even last a month in that scenario, and I think he knows it.

Yes a good Pakistani friend of mine in real life pretty much summarized it this way, word for word.

Another reason why I say IK is worse in these matters is what actions can be directly attributed to him and not just the establishment. In every government, media isn't allowed to criticize certain people or institutions, or talk about certain topics that would upset certain people from certain institutions. On top of that, IK himself has also victimised the opposition by employing the likes of NAB (a supposed 'anti-corruption' institution, that was originally the spawn of a dictator) to victimise opposition politicians, and the likes of PEMRA (press regulator) to remove any undesirable coverage. The former (NAB) has been used to imprison opposition leaders for weeks/months without a trial and without any evidence, and the courts have to subsequently throw these cases out as they are almost always baseless. The latter (PEMRA) removes TV channels from the air and threatens them not to be too critical, knocks their channel ordering to a lower number, the purpose is to threaten and coerce and then punish by starving the media house of ratings and ad money if they don't comply. So all this is happening in the supposedly democratic state, supposedly led by a sovereign civilian coalition government.

Interesting. Yes I have had this mentioned to me (PEMRA especially) a few times by worthy members here at various quieter moments, here and elsewhere.

Thank you for this enlightening detailed reply. Wish I could give it a + rating.

 

[VCheng]

It was an excellent read for me...it was not in vain in that sense .

One can argue this whole forum (and online forums more generally) are ultimately futile anyway

Fora remain useful for exchanges of ideas, present forum policies being a distinct exception. The futility that I referred to is related to any meaningful changes in the uniquely Pakistani system as I described above. It just ain't gonna happen.

(Ditto this forum. )

 

[Verve]

Who knows, establishment might change their minds in the medium term, if IK is forced out unwillingly, he might spill the beans on what he knows. His words on this issue will carry far more weight and reach farther than Gillani, Nawaz Sharif and others. I would hope that when that day comes his supporters will listen to what he has to say and try to read between the lines.

IK will not speak against the Pak Army, he's not like that Nawaz bastard who threatens exposing State secrets. Rotten apples are in high and supreme Judiciary and Bureaucracy. Establishment is split and has been for past 5 years, since General Raheel.

IK will be in power for 7 years. As soon as the dust settles and majority in Senate is secured, he will go for mid-term. After that we will see major changes in Constitution.

The way he is playing the game now, many just don't seem to realise but opposition know exactly what's coming.

the Zardari led PPP government losing in the elections to the PMLN despite being pretty compliant to the military.

That was Kiyani adhering to Charter of Democracy that he was the guarantor of. One term for PPP and one for PMLN.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Interesting. Yes I have had this mentioned to me (PEMRA especially) a few times by worthy members here at various quieter moments, here and elsewhere.

Thank you for this enlightening detailed reply. Wish I could give it a + rating.

Thanks, and ditto, the post that I quoted was worthy of +ve rating too!

IK will not speak against the Pak Army, he's not like that Nawaz bastard who threatens exposing State secrets. Rotten apples are in high and supreme Judiciary and Bureaucracy. Establishment is split and has been for past 5 years, since General Raheel.

IK will be in power for 7 years. As soon as the dust settles and majority in Senate is secured, he will go for mid-term. After that we will see major changes in Constitution.

The way he is playing the game now, many just don't seem to realise but opposition know exactly what's coming.

That was Kiyani adhering to Charter of Democracy that he was the guarantor of. One term for PPP and one for PMLN.

I hear what you're saying buddy but I broadly disagree. In my estimation, IK can't last forever, and when he does go, I don't think he will go quietly. And I am hoping (and expecting) that when he does go, he'll sing like a canary. And that singing won't be nearly as reserved as "Mujhe kyun nikala?".

No PM in our history has ever completed their term. There is a chance that IK completes his term, and I sincerely hope he doesn't meet the same fate as the others, I'm saying so because I believe in democracy. Also, you're talking about constitutional amendments? The threat IK faces is from the type of people who said such gems and nuggets of wisdom as the following:

“What is the Constitution? It is a booklet with ten or twelve pages. I can tear them up and say that from tomorrow, we shall live under a different system. Is there anybody to stop me?”

“If the state is going to be no more, where does the Constitution stand? I think a Constitution is just a piece of paper to be thrown in the dustbin.”

These are the same cretins whose own 'member of armed forces' oaths begin with a pledge to uphold the constitution.

I can't predict how IK might go or when, but there is always for him a looming threat of one too many scuffles breaking out between him and his benefactors. At some point the latter may decide to move, and they need only a few months prep to set the scene/stage for a credible removal, they may even character assassinate IK if need be, and at most they actually need only 2-4 weeks to remove him from power. He won't know what hit him.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Please actually read my comments before replying, or tagging me. I was in no way shape or form defending Modi, I was merely pointing out some of his sound economic policies.

I read everything you wrote, wise guy. I still disagree that Modi has destroyed India's economic future as well.

I don't want to go much further on this off-topic discussion.

Your Indian fan club also, I see, jumps at every opportunity to abuse Pakistanis and Pakistan. Save your anger for your enemies, not your countrymen.

We should get back to discussing Imran Khan, as talking about India or Modi leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

IK will not speak against the Pak Army, he's not like that Nawaz bastard who threatens exposing State secrets. Rotten apples are in high and supreme Judiciary and Bureaucracy. Establishment is split and has been for past 5 years, since General Raheel.

IK will be in power for 7 years. As soon as the dust settles and majority in Senate is secured, he will go for mid-term. After that we will see major changes in Constitution.

The way he is playing the game now, many just don't seem to realise but opposition know exactly what's coming.



That was Kiyani adhering to Charter of Democracy that he was the guarantor of. One term for PPP and one for PMLN.

I agree. Naysayers have the advantage now that everyone, not only Pakistan, are facing hard times.

The wind that left the sails of N and PPP will never come back. We are in the endgame.

Pakistan has been changed forever, fighting Indian terrorism that took 75,000 innocent Pakistani lives and witnessing the re-enslavement of Kashmiris, we must rise to the challenge.

If we falter for even one moment, the forces of evil will take full advantage. We are building history here on the frontier of LoC.

Imran Khan must stay, and Pakistanis understand that.