Few ‘thousands’ cannot defeat ‘millions’, believes PM

[Jazzbot]

Please take off your PTI glasses and see realistically in favour of national interest. IK is not wrong for electoral fairness but now its not the time to destabilise the country. By doing so, IK isn't going to achieve anything rather he will be at a losing end.

IK has used all legal ways to solve rigging issue. It is not IK who is destablizing the country, its govt who is not listening and instead deliberately creating a situation of conflict.

Plus, you are talking about metro and other projects. Dear, these projects are worth billions of rupees and take only 1-2 years to complete whereas projects like Bhasha dams take 8 - 10 years to complete and they require Billions of dollars as funding.

Thats my point, if we can allocate billions of rupees for 1 - 2 years of metro projects in one payment, then why can't we make 8 - 10 payments for Bhasha dam (1 payment every year) during its 8 - 10 years development time? Unlike metro buses, Bhasha dam's payments can be broken down into parts and can be paid over the years.

The thing is, Bhasha will by all means finish in 8 - 10 years, so there is no way N-League can show it as a show piece in next elections in 2018 to get votes. Only that is why they are not interested in this project.

Pakistan govt cannot spend this much at this moment and that's why they are calling for international funding agencies. Although dams are federal govt responsibility but it would definitely help if each province could cut some of their budget for contribution towards the dam budget and ultimately contribute for the greater benefit of the country. Otherwise, keep on crying and doing protests that no electricity and rest assured, even if IK comes into power, he is no magician that he can do magic and electricity will be there within no time of his coming into power.

Have federal govt talked about provinces on this budget cut for dams? Have federal govt taken any initiative for this till date? Zilch. No one is magician, but positive steps should be visible, we are not blind either.

So, PTI should support the govt and do some campaign to attract investors. I am surprised at PTI govt stance that federal govt is not investing in KPK power projects whereas federal govt is trying to get investors to fund Bhasha and Dasu dam which are both in KPK.

There is big difference in KPK power projects and Federal power projects that are just located in KPK. You need to get your facts right dude.

 

[Kabira]

Stop going round and round in circles, my point was plain and simple. If we can spend billions of dollars in one year at multiple metro projects in several cities then why can't we allocate some hundred billion dollars for bhasha dam to make it rolling after cutting the budget of these metro busses? Bhasha Dam is almost 8 years long project, so money can be allocated for it annually, so not a tough task to start with.

Did you learn to make up numbers from potian Asad Umar? Multan metro bus will cost Rs 30 billion, Rawalpindi, 22 billion, Lahore 27 billion. So around Rs 80 billion in 3 years, where is billions of dollars every year?

Lahore metro train $1.6b over 3 years and 100% of it will be financed by China. And Nawaz have already said Bhasha dam will be build even if no one provide loans. But it will be at expense of other developments over period of 10 years.

Hell i can see it taking decades if Pakistan have to build it from its own resources.

 

[Jazzbot]

Did you learn to make up numbers from potian Asad Umar? Multan metro bus will cost Rs 30 billion, Rawalpindi, 22 billion, Lahore 27 billion. So around Rs 80 billion in 3 years, where is billions of dollars every year?

Lahore metro train $1.6b over 3 years and 100% of it will be financed by China. And Nawaz have already said Bhasha dam will be build even if no one provide loans. But it will be at expense of other developments over period of 10 years.

Hell i can see it taking decades if Pakistan have to build it from its own resources.

Looks like I am banging my head at a wall. My question was plain and simple, if metro buses and bridges can get budget then why Bhasha can't? When govt is going to allocate funds for Bhasha now that its clear that Bhasha is most likely going to be developed from our own resources. When the federal govt plan to act on this? After 2022?

 

[Kabira]

Looks like I am banging my head at a wall. My question was plain and simple, if metro buses and bridges can get budget then why Bhasha can't? When govt is going to allocate funds for Bhasha now that its clear that Bhasha is most likely going to be developed from our own resources. When the federal govt plan to act on this? After 2022?

Its not clear so far, GoP is actively looking for loans. And Rs 25b have been released to clear the area, resettlement etc

 

[ryzvonusef]

Thats my point, if we can allocate billions of rupees for 1 - 2 years of metro projects in one payment, then why can't we make 8 - 10 payments for Bhasha dam (1 payment every year) during its 8 - 10 years development time? Unlike metro buses, Bhasha dam's payments can be broken down into parts and can be paid over the years.

There is this misconception the government "allocated" these funds out of their own resources. And thus, if government has capacity to allocate these, then why not on Dam?

But it DIDN'T! Government has no money (certainly NOT to this extent), govt actually said there will be NO metro etc last year.

Bullet train, Metro Bus for Karachi, Islamabad dropped - thenews.com.pk

This sudden construction boom came about ONLY when Govt got a lifeline in the form of Saudia's 1.5 BILLION Dollar "gift" (plus some other gists from other countries, I think China is throwing in massive money for that Kashgar-Karachi link).

Suddenly there was metro and motor way and everything.

Govt decided to build some basic infrastructure out of it. I'm not sure what's going through PMLN's heads, but I think they are using it to reduce petrol/cng demand via metro buses, which is frankly a very good idea, reducing forex outflow of petrol, and allow cng to be used for homes, factories and powerplants.

 

[Kabira]

There is this misconception the government "allocated" these funds out of their own resources. And thus, if government has capacity to allocate these, then why not on Dam?

But it DIDN'T! Government has no money (certainly NOT to this extent), govt actually said there will be NO metro etc last year.

Bullet train, Metro Bus for Karachi, Islamabad dropped - thenews.com.pk

This sudden construction boom came about ONLY when Govt got a lifeline in the form of Saudia's 1.5 BILLION Dollar "gift" (plus some other gists from other countries, I think China is throwing in massive money for that Kashgar-Karachi link).

Suddenly there was metro and motor way and everything.

Govt decided to build some basic infrastructure out of it. I'm not sure what's going through PMLN's heads, but I think they are using it to reduce petrol/cng demand via metro buses, which is frankly a very good idea, reducing forex outflow of petrol, and allow cng to be used for homes, factories and powerplants.

Bullet train was pipe dream by Noora in elections. From Karachi-Lahore-Peshawar bullet train will cost $35 billion. Total distance is 1700km and per km cost of bullet train $20 million. China will need to see another 5 years before financing bullet train.

 

[Khurram541]

Bullet train news are already old news and the project was dropped I think right after the elections because there are other priorities that need to be addressed. The 1800 KM track is being studied to be laid though and KHI LHR motorway is still on.

A bullet train is way to costly to be started at this point and probably that's why they realised to drop the idea for time being. But other projects regarding infrastructure development are surely being carried out and that's good.

Thanks God that we have got the finances for Dasu at least but Bhasha is still underway and the meeting with world bank and US financers in coming Oct will tell the exact status of Bhasha but even without that PM has said that we will Bhasha out of our own resources if we don't get the international funding.

 

[ryzvonusef]

Bullet train was pipe dream by Noora in elections. From Karachi-Lahore-Peshawar bullet train will cost $35 billion. Total distance is 1700km and per km cost of bullet train $20 million. China will need to see another 5 years before financing bullet train.

I know, I was talking about the other two projects mentioned in that link, the Islamabad Metro and Karachi Metro, they were rejected before the saudi gift, now suddenly we have those two and others.

 

[SQ8]

All that crap about change, change is demonstrated in 5 years. Instead, all that this destabilization is damaging to the country. Funny thing is, many IK supporters secretly realize this but are too full of their ego's to admit it.
I pray this government completes it tenure. It shows to bring some stability, and corrupt as it is.. it is better than the last one.. and the next one will be better than them.

 

[Khurram541]

Exactly....PTI and its supporters know we will not be doing any good to the country but stringent enough to still try to destabilize the govt by taking people to the streets. Only agenda of IK is to realize his dream of becoming PM which wasn't fulfilled in last elections and he is still in a fix about that.

 

[Dubious]

Let them perform in peace for 4 more years. If they fail, they will meet the same fate as Zardari. Who wouldve thought that Zardari who kept establishment, burucracy and other major political parties on board would literally be destroyed in elections. The truth is, if you work, you get the votes. Imran should focus on kpk and let his party grow instead of agitating the masses and threatening to resign.

4 more years and we will be holding a 10 yr debt on our heads...good luck paying it back

All that crap about change, change is demonstrated in 5 years. Instead, all that this destabilization is damaging to the country. Funny thing is, many IK supporters secretly realize this but are too full of their ego's to admit it.
I pray this government completes it tenure. It shows to bring some stability, and corrupt as it is.. it is better than the last one.. and the next one will be better than them.

Change doesnt come suddenly but over a period of time....you got that right

However, change comes when someone brings it! And to bring it ...the person involved is considered an outsider because he is proposing something new (change) hence is easily rejected....IK supporters are hoping for this change and are all in for a change ...to sit and watch the country continuously sink and get looted is not bringing change and if IK did that then I would not support him later coz if he gives up now who will believe him later? No ego there but if he is true with his idea of change why are Pakistanis fearful of change?

Kiya ghullam banay ki adat si hogi hai?

Fair enough his ways may have taken a turn here and there....but he is new in the game...

we kept quiet when PPP took big turns from Roti Kapra Makan...man still dont have all 3 or are missing one or the other...

We kept quiet when PMLN had some corruption charges thrown and then removed off them (all without proof) and we kept quiet when a man in jail was made the president of Pakistan!

But we suddenly speak and complain when one says Break this pathetic system down and bring in a new one?

Pry do tell me (addressing to each and every person who is apposing IK) how the hell do you bring change? Do you just watch your country get eaten up? Do you watch your people call him KING SHAREEF under the name of democracy? How do you bring change? By being quiet? Then fine you lot keep shut while PTI at least bother trying!

 

[SQ8]

Pry do tell me (addressing to each and every person who is apposing IK) how the hell do you bring change? Do you just watch your country get eaten up? Do you watch your people call him KING SHAREEF under the name of democracy? How do you bring change? By being quiet? Then fine you lot keep shut while PTI at least bother trying!

I would prefer this slow change anyday to something like what happened in Egypt. IK's ideas will bring only that.

 

[Dubious]

I would prefer this slow change anyday to something like what happened in Egypt. IK's ideas will bring only that.

The price for slow change is the following (if you are willing to pay; mind you it is nothing better than Egypt either):

Continuous corruption = frustration
Habit of not being equal (elite rule) = frustration
All contracts going overseas (crash of local economy) = inflation + frustration

Frustration
- More people going astray (not spiritually but morally)
- Crime increases

The thing Punjab and Sindh did with IDP by closing borders ...that was some form of alienating
Lack of Health + sanitation (sewage, clean water) - whereby even the metro system blocks hospitals and the path for ambulances - alienation of locals from elites (where elite areas are well provided)

- joining some form of stupid terrorists or other actors which are against state...
-more instability
-fear + frustration

I am not sure if you get the point....With increasing gap between local man and ruling elite, with increasing frustration....Dont you think this will lead to Egypt type situation rather than a quick change which is possible? Better yet to tell the people what their basic right is what a basic vote is and what power it has (power in the hands of the people) over people in the hands of the govt?

 

[SQ8]

The price for slow change is the following (if you are willing to pay; mind you it is nothing better than Egypt either):

Continuous corruption = frustration
Habit of not being equal (elite rule) = frustration
All contracts going overseas (crash of local economy) = inflation + frustration

Frustration
- More people going astray (not spiritually but morally)
- Crime increases

The thing Punjab and Sindh did with IDP by closing borders ...that was some form of alienating
Lack of Health + sanitation (sewage, clean water) - whereby even the metro system blocks hospitals and the path for ambulances - alienation of locals from elites (where elite areas are well provided)

- joining some form of stupid terrorists or other actors which are against state...
-more instability
-fear + frustration

I am not sure if you get the point....With increasing gap between local man and ruling elite, with increasing frustration....Dont you think this will lead to Egypt type situation rather than a quick change which is possible? Better yet to tell the people what their basic right is what a basic vote is and what power it has (power in the hands of the people) over people in the hands of the govt?

Nope, there are certain factors that influence the stability of a change. I have no idea what going astray means.. that is your own personal judgement upon others and is IRRELEVANT

Now, the crime increase comes with unemployment.. a slow change will ensure a stable economy(with the current improvement in policies) and more jobs.

The IDP closure thing was actually smart, it stopped terrorists who came in the guise of IDPs from infiltrating the main cities. Not all IDPs go back, they settle in cities and create slums which are a haven for crime and terror. The IDPs need development in their own areas to be able to progress.

The rest of social improvement comes from a stable change. This government will be replaced by a better one in 5 years and so on. A system will set in and work properly. The Voting issues this election will be much less next election.

The gap that you mention is increasing the world over, but no revolution EVER fixed that. The French revolution was an excepion but for that you need a united society. You need Pakistanis.. not Pathans, Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Serakils, Mohajirs , Hazaras.. Sunnis, Shia.. Deobandi Barelvi.. and so on.

What will happen if IK is successful, is that it might trigger a Pakistan wide collapse of order and anarchy will settle..and just like ISIS .. terror elements( who are NOT in the thousands but close to a million) will start taking over. Separatist movements will start up in frustration of the lack of leadership and cohesion... and Pakistan will cease to exist.

 

[Dubious]

Nope, there are certain factors that influence the stability of a change. I have no idea what going astray means.. that is your own personal judgement upon others and is IRRELEVANT

Going amock due to frustration....so and so is the cause of our decline...so and so caused me not to get a job...so and so has influence and backing hence got the job (corruption causes this types of frustrations and when vulnerable anyone can pick up these kids and use them as they please- terrorist; against state in whatever form)

Now, the crime increase comes with unemployment.. a slow change will ensure a stable economy(with the current improvement in policies) and more jobs.

I dont know how a slow change will bring more jobs when all are exported overseas...I also dont know what sort of slow change will bring a stable economy which was stable way before NS existed!

The IDP closure thing was actually smart, it stopped terrorists who came in the guise of IDPs from infiltrating the main cities. Not all IDPs go back, they settle in cities and create slums which are a haven for crime and terror. The IDPs need development in their own areas to be able to progress.

It was smart looking from the eyes of a city dweller but pathetic if you are in their shoes...esp if you are being punished based on few who would have caused and restricting movement of NATIONALS of a country within their own country! If State is soo fearful of such as you mentioned then they should have done something :
register them (like they eventually did but being a BS in the start was necessary to grow the gap, right?)
Or give them another site to go....make an area available to them...do something...But ahhh we want slow change we sit quietly and wait....change is coming...any min now instead of getting up and doing something different we announced the shutting of our gates to our own! How pathetic! And this is called slow change?

The rest of social improvement comes from a stable change. This government will be replaced by a better one in 5 years and so on.

How many times have we told ourselves that? I believe more than 20-50 yrs? Stable change is soo slow and steady it has arrived...India who got independence about the same time as us managed to
uproot feudal system
make a nobody (Modi) into a somebody!
Has innovative ideas (the hydro + solar combo is awesome! - when was the last time we had something revolutionary in some field that useful to the country? Oh yea...slow change we need to sit down quietly and wait for it right )

That is change! And for them it arrived not exactly slow but it arrived! Where are we on the chart of making a nobody a somebody?

heck even Bangladesh who got independence after us from ourselves is somewhat stable and has market overseas and doesnt get as much loadshedding as us!!

A system will set in and work properly.

How by magic? Coz as I see it ...NS is all ready to give the seat to PPP...where is the change? Whose bringing it?

The Voting issues this election will be much less next election.

How? When all the issues are being swept under the table and being laughed at when IK brings them up? Oh yea slow change...its coming...

The gap that you mention is increasing the world over, but no revolution EVER fixed that. The French revolution was an excepion but for that you need a united society. You need Pakistanis.. not Pathans, Punjabis, Sindhis, Balochis, Serakils, Mohajirs , Hazaras.. Sunnis, Shia.. Deobandi Barelvi.. and so on.

And that is never going to happen if you close your gates like you did for IDP! Its never going to happen when ruling elites sit at the top...and it certainly is never going to happen when you laugh at people with ideas different than yours! Revolution comes with out of the box thinking...Thinking that is new to the area hence the word revolution (a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system.)

What will happen if IK is successful, is that it might trigger a Pakistan wide collapse of order and anarchy will settle..and just like ISIS .. terror elements( who are NOT in the thousands but close to a million) will start taking over. Separatist movements will start up in frustration of the lack of leadership and cohesion... and Pakistan will cease to exist.

Why will such a thing happen? What makes you paint this picture?