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Federalism ‘may be’ on 2023 agenda: Turkish PM

Since when killing traitors is about revenge :)
If these negotiations end with peace, and you still want to kill those that took up arms, then it would be revenge.

How many? If you're claiming this you have to provide evidence. Although Ottoman Empire consisted of multiple ethnicities, those who fought and died for it were Turks throught centuries. This was the whole reason why Pan Turkism emerged in late Ottoman history. Saying that Arabs fought Çanakkale war is just hilarious. We all know what Arabs were doing in that time.
Arab Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
72. and 77. alay were consisted of Arabs, Kurds and other minorities.

Sure, you will probably reply that they were insufficient and many of them deserted. But there were also one that did fight for us.

We also had a lot of Albanian and Arab officers in the army:
BROTHERS IN ARMS: TURKISH OFFICERS IN THE ÇANAKKALE (DARDANELLES) CAMPAIGN | Mesut Uyar - Academia.edu

It was the rise of nationalism (of the many ethnicity's throughout the Ottoman empire, Lawrence for instance) that brought us there in the first place, but that is a whole different topic.
 
If these negotiations end with peace, and you still want to kill those that took up arms, then it would be revenge.
I'd say justice. They took lives of the law abiding countrymen, they don't deserve to live
72. and 77. alay were consisted of Arabs, Kurds and other minorities.
I knew you'd bring up 72. and 77. regiments. I won't say a word, just google and do a little research about what their insubordination caused. If you gave Arabs credit for fighting the battle of Dardanelles for those SOBs then your objectivity is compromised and there's no point in discussing with you.
It was the rise of nationalism (of the many ethnicity's throughout the Ottoman empire, Lawrence for instance) that brought us there in the first place, but that is a whole different topic.
Turks was left alone in every instance of their history, Fvck Arabs and French. When we fell only people who felt the responsibility to send us help were Pakistanis. They are the only people who deserve credit.
 
Lets put left /right aside
Whats the best for our country?
I dont think there is a solution that will be acceptable to all.
From replies untill now,we can be sure that federalism is not what we want.
After the elections Sultan Erdogan I(The First) will be the sole ruler of the country we used to call Turkiye.
He will decide what will happen,so it doesnt matter what we say.
 
I'd say justice. They took lives of the law abiding countrymen, they don't deserve to live
That's revenge talk right there. You are right about justice however, but I'm willing to sacrifice them walking for peace. Like I said before, I don't think it's about winning or losing, but about peace and saving countless lives in the process.

I knew you'd bring up 72. and 77. regiments. I won't say a word, just google and do a little research about what their insubordination caused. If you gave Arabs credit for fighting the battle of Dardanelles for those SOBs then your objectivity is compromised and there's no point in discussing with you.
And I knew you would react like this, which I also wrote about in my post. I talked about their efficiency and the desertions. But I also said that there were one's that did fight for us.

An interesting source about Arab support for Ottoman empire:
'Araplar, Osmanl
The research has been conducted by Sebahattin Arslan which is an investigative writer.

When we fell only people who felt the responsibility to send us help were Pakistanis. They are the only people who deserve credit.
Allah Pakistanli kardeslermizden Razi olsun.
 
Az Önce Cok şey yazmayi Düşündüm ,ama en son bunu diyeceğim icin:

Internetin var ,git Kullan Google´li, Her IRK ín Kültürüne bak ozaman görürsün senin Dini bile ne kadar batirir ve Kötü gösterir.

Dünya 2013 beri Yoktur ,ve Türkler´de cok eski bir IRK´dir.




(Noluyor ,Foruma Hollandali Türk Invasionu geldi birden :yahoo:).
 
That's revenge talk right there. You are right about justice however, but I'm willing to sacrifice them walking for peace. Like I said before, I don't think it's about winning or losing, but about peace and saving countless lives in the process.
Who wants to be saved? There are hundreds of thousands of Turks like me who are willing to fight, we've always been. What good is life if you're living without integrity. Fvck the peace and prosperity that will come by taking down "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene" signs to have peace with a terrorist organization. Justice and Honor still means something, have a fvcking spine.
And I knew you would react like this, which I also wrote about in my post. I talked about their efficiency and the desertions. But I also said that there were one's that did fight for us.

An interesting source about Arab support for Ottoman empire:
'Araplar, Osmanl
The research has been conducted by Sebahattin Arslan which is an investigative writer.
Hahahahah :omghaha: What could you expect from someone who's working for Gülen the tracherous scum. Yeah very credible investigator must he.
 
Very funny who thinks that Arabs not betrayel the Ottomans. (Not all but most of them).

Now they all live in War ,that´s the Price for Betrayel a Great Empire.

This is the Actually Real Situation.

Why the Islam come to Arab Culuture and not some other ? Because they was the ...........Ethnic group. (Bu Kuranda Yazyiyor).

@LegionnairE


I Agree and Disagree with you , but there is no a Good War , always ............!!!
 
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Who wants to be saved? There are hundreds of thousands of Turks like me who are willing to fight, we've always been. What good is life if you're living without integrity. Fvck the peace and prosperity that will come by taking down "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene" signs to have peace with a terrorist organization. Justice and Honor still means something, have a fvcking spine.
Fine, you hate peace and prosperity. You love going to war, I guess human life means nothing to you. How can someone have value for justice and honor, if they don't even value human life?

Hahahahah :omghaha: What could you expect from someone who's working for Gülen the tracherous scum. Yeah very credible investigator must he.
Look at the source: "Osmanlı arşivlerinde 5 bine yakın belgeyi inceleyen...". In other words, the source is not Zaman, but Ottoman archives. You are ridiculing the source without even taking a look at it.

Btw, the only reason I posted that quote was because it was the first Google result I could find. The very first was actually some forum, but made a new search to find a better source, and this link was the first search result.

Very funny who thinks that Arabs not betrayel the Ottomans. (Not all but most of them).
You are saying it yourself "Not all but most of them". Which is basically in line with what I am saying.
 
Look at the source: "Osmanlı arşivlerinde 5 bine yakın belgeyi inceleyen...". In other words, the source is not Zaman, but Ottoman archives. You are ridiculing the source without even taking a look at it.
I wouldn't wipe my azz with Zaman :) Doesn't mean a damn thing if they read some academic papers, they'll see what they want to see. Just like how you see arabs fighting in Dardanelles :)
You are saying it yourself "Not all but most of them". Which is basically in line with what I am saying.
Some would say not all Nazis were racists you know...
Fine, you hate peace and prosperity. You love going to war, I guess human life means nothing to you. How can someone have value for justice and honor, if they don't even value human life?
My life is worth less than my country, definition of honor and self sacrifice.

This country was founded with the motto "Ya istiklal ya ölüm" which translates as "Freedom or death". Some things mattered more than living to our ancestors. I'm just sticking with the same principles.
 
My life is worth less than my country, definition of honor and self sacrifice.

This country was founded with the motto "Ya istiklal ya ölüm" which translates as "Freedom or death". Some things mattered more than living to our ancestors. I'm just sticking with the same principles.
Your own life, not the lives of others. And if you drag on a war, or wish for war, then you are risking the lives of others in the process. Which isn't honorable at all, it would just be evil.

The rest of your post has no substance, so I'm not gonna reply to those.
 
Very funny who thinks that Arabs not betrayel the Ottomans. (Not all but most of them).
...

It's wrong to say that Arabs, or any other ethnic group of people, betrayed us without giving the proper context of why they did so. It was the nationalism that spread among them, just like the Arabic Spring spread, right? They were promised one thing and another from the greatest hustlers called UK and France [and Russia -> Armenia]. The same went for the Kurds, but less successfully at the time. Today, a part of the many Kurds that lives in Turkey demands 'freedom', some just some basic rights and others getting their independent country/state with their own constitution and flag and so on. So lets break it down in order to get a better understanding of what it means;

1. Have the Kurdish separatists [not every Kurd, that is] got their 'freedom' in another place? Yes, in Iraq - it's what we call KRG.

1.1. Has this 'division' of internal power led to a more peaceful, developed and greater Iraq? No, in fact, both states within Iraq has been close to enter a military conflict after not being able to get along on different matters. The oil, for instance. Dividing the political power has led to two, to each other opposite, blocks, both supported and fed by nationalistic feelings and intolerance.​

2. Does a federal system in Turkey give the same kind of separatists a similar tool? Yes, it would most probably mean that they get their own state, within the borders of Turkey, similar to the case in Iraq.

2.1. Is there a reason to believe that paragraph 1.1 won't repeat in Turkey? You do the math.​

My point is that nationalistic feels should not be fed at any price, thus federalism is not to be. Nationalism among different ethnic groups that used to live within the borders of the Ottoman Empire led to the empire's own division and in turn - destruction. What happened to former Yugoslavia, anyone recall?..
Feeding these trolls, or nationalists/separatists, by negotiations and promises will only make it a trend; they will want to get more and even more until we get to the point where we don't want to, or simply aren't able to, give more. At that very point, we face the threat of getting squashed between Greece and a Great Kurdistan. Nothing would be able to get us back to our previous shape. Nothing. Religion, some [Erdoganists, for instance] might say - but how would that work out? Turks are mainly Sunni whilst Kurds are mostly Shia - both religions groups are not exactly known for embracing each other in love and respect, rather the contrary.

So how do I suggest that we solve this decades old issue? What changes do I, as a Turkish and Swedish national, born and ever since living in Sweden with future plans to move back, want to happen?

In my opinion, there certainly are some things that really has to change. The sole fact that sites like YouTube can get blacklisted just because of one video,
that MPs are immune to juridical charges,
that politicians can interfere with the military's duty - their fight against terrorism, for instance - whenever they want to, etc etc.

When it comes to the rights of the minorities, I have not much to say. They should be free to speak their own languages, live their culture as long as it obeys the country's laws, call themselves by whatever name they want - using the Turkish latin alphabet. All of this, just as I have my rights to be me, a Muslim Turk/Swede, in Sweden.
Can I organize and perform demonstrations? Yes, if I've got permission from the local authorities so that I don't disturb anyone.
Can I speak Turkish wherever I want? Sure, but it might come in handy to know a few words in the language spoken in the country you live in, as your co-workers might not be able to understand you otherwise.
Can I perform cultural activities, such as celebrating Newroz? Sure, as long as it doesn't break any laws. Draining a car tire in fuel, lighting it up and starting to jump over it in a place where other people might or might not like it and without telling the local authorities about my plan - can lead to juridical consequences.

I don't know if you guys would agree with me and please comment if you want to or simply don't agree on some point. But no matter if you agree or not, you should also realize that it's very hard to get anything done by politic means in Turkey since we only have a part that always screams "WHITE!" and another part who answers with "BLACK!", no matter what they are 'discussing'.
 
Your own life, not the lives of others. And if you drag on a war, or wish for war, then you are risking the lives of others in the process. Which isn't honorable at all, it would just be evil.

The rest of your post has no substance, so I'm not gonna reply to those.
I'll reply your post with a quote from Martin Luther King Jr.

"A man who hasn't found something he is willing to die for is not fit to live."

I'd be glad to remove the conscription to shut the pacifist fags like you. Make the military service voluntary, I don't care. If terrorists want peace -what a contradiction- they can surrender to our armed forces. The other way around is unacceptable by me.
 
Baykuş;4103546 said:
Feeding these trolls, or nationalists/separatists, by negotiations and promises will only make it a trend; they will want to get more and even more until we get to the point where we don't want to, or simply aren't able to, give more. At that very point, we face the threat of getting squashed between Greece and a Great Kurdistan. Nothing would be able to get us back to our previous shape. Nothing. Religion, some [Erdoganists, for instance] might say - but how would that work out? Turks are mainly Sunni whilst Kurds are mostly Shia - both religions groups are not exactly known for embracing each other in love and respect, rather the contrary.

So how do I suggest that we solve this decades old issue? What changes do I, as a Turkish and Swedish national, born and ever since living in Sweden with future plans to move back, want to happen?

In my opinion, there certainly are some things that really has to change. The sole fact that sites like YouTube can get blacklisted just because of one video,
that MPs are immune to juridical charges,
that politicians can interfere with the military's duty - their fight against terrorism, for instance - whenever they want to, etc etc.

You are talking like as if you know what the negotiations are about and what are the Turkey's offers, if there is any...

I simply think that these negotiations will either end up as being a fail or a success, soon. IMO If it fails, politicians will not interfere with the military's duty anymore. If it not, then we won't have to worry about PKK anymore. Win-win.

I guess i simplified it too much, but oh well... :)
 
Ofcourse it will be fail or succes there is no other possibilty you dumb fvcking bastard.. This is no soccergame where you can get a draw u stupid fcking cvnt.

I said, it will end up as being a fail or a success SOON, and there won't be anything like this, where you cannot determine if it was a success or not:

they will want to get more and even more until we get to the point where we don't want to, or simply aren't able to, give more.

As Baykuş suggesting.

Now take your time off, and try staying away from tacos.
 
You are talking like as if you know what the negotiations are about and what are the Turkey's offers, if there is any...

Very true, my friend. The reason I do this is because I don't know and can't know what's going on in Erdogan's/AKP's head; what are their limits? Because of that, I've to expect as if I had to face the worst case scenario. And AKP's previous compulsive initiatives that they failed with doesn't really help me expect something good coming out of this neither.

...
I simply think that these negotiations will either end up as being a fail or a success, soon. IMO If it fails, politicians will not interfere with the military's duty anymore. If it not, then we won't have to worry about PKK anymore. Win-win.

I guess i simplified it too much, but oh well... :)

I hope this is the case, at least. It will give PKK a chance to choose between the hard way or the easy way, both leading to the same result at the end of the day; peace and quiet. But all the talk about federalism is what worries me, it is a temporary solution but will, IMHO, lead us to the worse - kinda like painkillers; you still bleed, and now your wound got infected by bacteria but you will feel the pain of it once you are out of painkillers, and by then it will be too late to do something about it but cut that limb off.
 

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