Fawad Choudhry Quits PTI ..and Asad Umar Follows !

[Dalit]

IK tried. No one can blame the man. Pakistan is finished anyway. Economically it has no standing and almost default. What is there left for IK to save? Even if he makes a comeback Pakistan will be paying debt and interest for an eternity.

I say let this ship sink. If I was IK I would enjoy life. Leave Pakistan to the generals. They have all the answers and solutions.

Look at how much money IMF has given to Ukraine and compare that number with paltry aid given to Pakistan. Moreover, no one wants to lend money to an entity on the verge of bankruptcy, even IMF. This is why IMF wants Pakistan to line up around USD6bn from friendly countries before IMF gives the last tranche. USD 6bn is a paltry amount for GCC and China but for reasons that are unclear to me, those countries have reduced financial support by 90% since RCO. To make matters worse, foreign investors recognize Dollar Dar for the crook that he is so that avenue has been closed as well. High command knows reality of Dollar Dar but since he helps high command with money laundering, Dar can do as he pleases.

I am not exaggerating but events of last year and half have set Pak back by a decade. And there is f-all a technocratic government can do to turn around the economy unless that government has full backing of China which is unlikely. NATO's aim was to weaken Pak and that purpose will be defeated if money is poured into Pak even if IK is eliminated. Moreover, a large part of any potential aid will be lost through corruption and brain dead projects under a Zardari controlled government

What you will see in Pak is a sharp fall in standard of living. You will see sharp rise in infant mortality and fall in life expectancy as medicine and medical equipment becomes unaffordable while unemployment spikes. This is in turn will cause more political instability and result will be a vicious cycle. China is the only hope. Otherwise Pakistan ka Allah Hafiz. Internal army revolt is the other option but clearly, the 600k people under arm lack a pair.

Yes. Expect living standard to deteriorate rapidly. I today met a PhD from Pakistan. Almost every person able to run from Pakistan is running away. Everyone knows the score. The writing is on the wall.

All my life I’ve watched Western media going on and on about evil military dictators in Pakistan and Benazir and others’ valiant fight for democracy. So I’m surprised at their total silence now.

One reason is that the media in the West used to be relatively free once. Over time it has become totally controlled, almost 100%. Till Whiskey throttled it, the Pakistani media was actually much freer.

With the Western media not showing the atrocities being committed by the British Indian Army, there is no pressure on politicians to say anything. Out of sight, out of mind.

Pakistan is finished. It will be denuclearised and live like Nepal under India.

The Western powers have a deal with the Pakistani army. That is why the West is silent.

 

[Tamerlane]

Pakistan is finished. It will be denuclearised and live like Nepal under India.

The Western powers have a deal with the Pakistani army. That is why the West is silent.

What I heard from listening to Pakistani analysts is that the nuclear authority is independent enough to wipe out any top commanders that try to compromise the nukes.

My feeling is that it’s only a matter of time before Whiskey & Co. are whacked.

 

[Dalit]

What I heard from listening to Pakistani analysts is that the nuclear authority is independent enough to wipe out any top commanders that try to compromise the nukes.

My feeling is that it’s only a matter of time before Whiskey & Co. are whacked.

If you ask me personally, I think the nuclear weapons are already compromised. The US embassy is fully in control. The big contingent of US navy officers are in charge.

 

[Tamerlane]

If you ask me personally, I think the nuclear weapons are already compromised. The US embassy is fully in control. The big contingent of US navy officers are in charge.

The haramis have probably given them electronic control but maybe not physical control?

 

[Dalit]

The haramis have probably given them electronic control but maybe not physical control?

To be honest, I don't give a shit anymore about anything related to Pakistan. Whether Pakistan stays or goes doesn't impact me anymore. Too much has happened over the years. We all cared for this country. That feeling has just disappeared.

 

[ARMalik]

Pakistan will survive, undoubtedly. No worries there.

I beg to differ. Coming months there will be huge implications in KPK and Baluchistan.

 

[Chute]

AND he recently brought up his boys worried about him while they are in LONDON!

Tells you something about this guy, don't it?? A totally self-absorbed, stupid, Narcissist, arrogant person. And those qualities became the cause of his rapid and spectacular downfall. A downfall people here are unable to cope with. Some months ago, I had expressed my hope to @VCheng that Imran would come back to power as a refined person, having learned his lessons. Vcheng didn't agree with me. And I concede now: He was right.

You must always remember that narcissism is a staple prerequisite for 99% politicians anywhere in the world. The manner, intensity, expression and consequence may vary, that is all.

The other (rare) 1% can only be seen to be such with hindsight (often quite long term) in vast majority of cases.

This is why people (like @VCheng ) who are relatively anchored on objectivism/consistency/principles on analysing these matters are well attuned to how over indulgence of political fanboyism and even fanaticism looks like right off the bat.....with regards to shoe never been put on other foot to begin with by such crowds and mobs of people....and their desensitization to the larger hypocrisy by doing so that is so apparent to us.

They simply know the circus sounds too well and that the circus will end and another will set up again...whatever the current circus promotes as new, thrilling and different to those before it.

As to how much a system (to handle politicians and other power wielders and brokers) has been built to handle/resist this phenomenon versus what the phenomenon has imposed on the system is a different larger subject....and one that concerns the objective politically rational/astute types much more. i.e the degree and nature of a larger slope and why that is far from being level..... rather than the marbles dropped on it for some transient fanfare and charade.

Vcheng, like me, is an observer in the mold of Durkheim....we want to achieve the biggest picture possible on a society and its reality as to why it is a certain way and how it got to that situation.

Those that have various personal issues, voids and grievances to launder (in the spectacle and circus fanfare) at the smaller scale often hate people like us for it....there is simple a grievous dissonance and mismatch in the scale and scope of interest/understanding we are after.

This is also why there is a tighter bound in optimism vs pessimism for us compared to the sinusoids experienced and emoted about by those more drawn to the smaller scale fray.

 

[VCheng]

Those that have various personal issues, voids and grievances to launder (in the spectacle and circus fanfare) at the smaller scale often hate people like us for it....there is simple a grievous dissonance and mismatch in the scale and scope of interest/understanding we are after.

My signature says it all.

 

[Chute]

@Joe Shearer keeps getting bogged down by some riffraff in some typical threads that attract those

Maybe this one will interest him in a different way... i.e let us see what he has to say about Vcheng, meengla and other comments in this one and my own take above.

 

[BamsiBey]

Political strategy of the current regime has all the hallmarks of the early 90s maifa politics of the sharif's family. Where they used to send hitmen and criminals to threaten people from voting other parties esp PPP, and kill opposition leaders through their mercenary Gullu Butts.

The only difference is that now they are backed with the Army and ISI.

None, PTI is finished.
Imran Khan next will most likely leave the country; his telecast gave a subtle hint.

Are you dumb? how can you kill a religious based philosophy?

IK will not leave pakistan, unless he is kidnapped and drugged and forcibly taken on a plane to another country.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer keeps getting bogged down by some riffraff in some typical threads that attract those

Maybe this one will interest him in a different way... i.e let us see what he has to say about Vcheng, meengla and other comments in this one and my own take above.

I am shocked to see that a handful of Indians and Bangladeshis are more intensely absorbed in hoping against hope that Pakistan will pull through, while some well-known extremist elements, who were full of bile and bitterness against Indians until very recently appear to have given up and folded up and are in the process of walking away.

I just don't know what to say.

@Chute and @SoulSpokesman have evidence from elsewhere that this is not a feeling that is put on for consumption within PDF, It feels increasingly unreal, though, hoping for some miraculous turn-around.

At this moment, it seems that Im will lose all the opportunists who had flocked around him, when he posed a genuine challenge to the establishment, the PTI will dissolve into a puddle of tears and unsteady bladders, and remain a pack of youthias, and a set of increasingly befuddled generals will keep trying old formulae, in the hope that old and tried techniques will help once again, in spite of the vastly changed circumstances. Where this will end is not clear.

 

[Meengla]

I am shocked to see that a handful of Indians and Bangladeshis are more intensely absorbed in hoping against hope that Pakistan will pull through, while some well-known extremist elements, who were full of bile and bitterness against Indians until very recently appear to have given up and folded up and are in the process of walking away.

At this moment, it seems that Im will lose all the opportunists who had flocked around him, when he posed a genuine challenge to the establishment, the PTI will dissolve into a puddle of tears and unsteady bladders, and remain a pack of youthias, and a set of increasingly befuddled generals will keep trying old formulae, in the hope that old and tried techniques will help once again, in spite of the vastly changed circumstances. Where this will end is not clear.

Imran fanbois are coping. It is hard but they must. The sun is setting on Imran Khan's politics for at least next few years. We must all cope and adjust to changing realities. For me, I adjusted very quickly when Imran's NA Speaker threw out the NCM against Imran in April 2022. Then it became clear who Imran was but I was still hoping for the best--as @VCheng knows from some months ago. But I changed. No shame in adjusting to new knowledge.

But some are deluded or what won't change.

I have two brothers in Karachi. An elder and a younger one. The elder doesn't like Imran because he thinks Imran misuses religion by using 'Ryasat e Medina' while having women dance in Imran's political rallies; he also quotes some Hakim Sayeed or some other people to say Imran's destructive purpose was foretold decades ago: To destroy Pakistan. The younger brother thinks that Imran was going to bring some Inqilaab (revolution) and that 'it is only Imran way or no way'. I disagree with both. To the older brother: I have no problems women dancing in political rallies and I don't believe decades ago someone could have told what Imran would do. To the younger brother: He became another Imran cultist. His hatred of the old political class blinds him to Imran's very destructive presence in Pakistan.

PS. In a latest 'poll' on PDF, I voted for PMLN and publicly let that known. And I am an Urdu Speaker, BTW.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Imran fanbois are coping. It is hard but they must. The sun is setting on Imran Khan's politics for at least next few years. We must all cope and adjust to changing realities. For me, I adjusted very quickly when Imran's NA Speaker threw out the NCM against Imran in April 2022. Then it became clear who Imran was but I was still hoping for the best--as @VCheng knows from some months ago. But I changed. No shame in adjusting to new knowledge.

Scary.

What is the future?

 

[Tamerlane]

All the deep discussions will be cut short any day now when a helicopter falls out of the sky.

A mausoleum will be built in Jati Umra, called Jabra Mazar. Yearly urs will be held, attended by faujeets, pajeets, ranjeets, and patvaris.

 

[Meengla]

Scary.

What is the future?

The 'Purana Pakistan'! [Old Pakistan]. And it won't be necessarily bad. A nation which has zero-caliber 'revolutionaries' tries to bring a 'revolution' ends up in far worse shape.

People here forget that Pakistan's 'indicators' were not all that bad from 1947 and well into the 1980s and even into some years under Musharraf. Political stability is needed above all. Continuity of policies is needed. And definitely the fake 'revolutionaries' like Imran Khan are not needed. From what I have gleaned, Imran's ouster is a pre-requisite for Pakistan's donors/benefactors to start giving Pakistan some relief.