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Ice Cold let me tell one thing.
It is very unfortuante that we lack equipement if a quote a a person with every sensitive job " if i ask you to provide me this and that and you come up with asking me no we can not and than ask me to go into the mouth of a lion without neccessary equipment" what would you say ??
 
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OK everyone,

Calm down a bit.

Mr. Concerned,

Jana and RR have both repeatedly argued against extremism and Terrorism. Neither of the two has any liking for the Taliban or the state of the country right now, and neither do you. The only differences I see between y'all is on how this threat needs to be approached - and there is no need to suggest that anyone is an ostrich because they perceive resolving the issue in a different manner.

You RR and Jana all apparently care deeply for the country, and it is understandable that the events in question bring about emotional responses, but the objections raised by RR and others towards any massive military op. are legitimate - the long term repercussions need to be examined.

The state of affairs in US controlled Afghanistan, where no one can complain about a lack of "kinetic ops.", needs to be analyzed - not in the sense that they have beaten the Taliban back time and time again (which they have), but whether the movement has weakened from that approach, and whether that approach has won the hearts and minds of the Pashtun areas they fight in. The latter is extremely important, because without a large part of the local population supporting you, you may as well be fighting and insurgency from now till Kingdom come.
 
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In a massive operation against the terroristst (that had few days back attacked a military fort in Waziristan), about 90 of them killed.
 
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^^^ So is the Pakistan Army not providing the necessary equipment to its soldiers and the FC? Or is he referring to the problems that led to the grounding of the cobra's?
 
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Security forces kill 90 militants in retaliatory action

Updated at Friday, January 18, 2008 1910 PST
WANA: At least 90 militants have been killed and 4 soldiers injured in separate clashes that took place in Chagmalai and Ladha Fort as security forces and militants engage in battles across the agency.

Spokesman of ISPR, Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas has confirmed the incident, saying the militants attacked the security personnel in the area lying between Wana Road and Ladha Fort. IN reaction to this, the security forces launched an offensive against militants, killing at least 90 and injuring several others, he added.

Four security personnel were injured in two separate clashes between security forces and militants while two vehicles were also damaged.
Security forces kill 90 militants in retaliatory action

DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan, Jan 18 (AP) - Helicopter gunships fired on two vehicles carrying suspected Islamic militants near one of two forts that came under rebel attack earlier this week in South Waziristan, killing eight of them, the military said Friday. Two deaths were reported in fighting elsewhere in the region. Meanwhile, fighting Friday killed two people close to the village of Chakmalai in the same province, said Alam Sher, a medical orderly stationed there. He said that a large number of infantrymen had moved in under the protection of helicopter gunships. An intelligence official in the region confirmed that fighting was going on in Chakmalai and that the army and paramilitary Frontier Constabulary were trying to clear the area of pro-Taliban insurgents. “Security troops moved in after fighting the militants, and they have taken up positions at strategic locations to prevent militants from operating from this area,” said the official on condition of anonymity.(Posted @ 17:53 PST)

EDIT: More details:
Pakistani forces kill 90 militants ISLAMABAD, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Pakistani forces killed up to 90 militants in two battles on Friday in South Waziristan tribal area along the Afghan border, the military said. The clashes came two days after hundreds of militants overran a paramilitary fort in another part of South Waziristan. In one operation on Friday, government forces attacked a large number of militants who had gathered to attack another attack fort in the region, at Ladha, killing up to 60 of them, said military spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas. Security forces used artillery and mortars and there were no casualties on the government side, he said. In the second incident, militants ambushed a military convoy but suffered upto 30 casualties when security forces fought back, Abbas said. “We had a convoy passing through Chaghmalai. Miscreants started firing on the convoy. The security forces retaliated and there was a firefight for an hour or two and then the security forces cleared the area,” he said. Four members of the security forces were wounded in the second clash, he said.(Posted @ 18:53 PST, Updated @ 19:38 PST))
 
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These guys are obviously targeting the FC. I wonder if there are any plans to station PA soldiers along with them throughout western Pakistan.

I am simply amazed at how brazen these fighters have become.
 
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Pakistani forces kill 90 militants


ISLAMABAD, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Pakistani forces killed up to 90 militants in two battles on Friday in South Waziristan tribal area along the Afghan border, the military said. The clashes came two days after hundreds of militants overran a paramilitary fort in another part of South Waziristan. In one operation on Friday, government forces attacked a large number of militants who had gathered to attack another attack fort in the region, at Ladha, killing up to 60 of them, said military spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas. Security forces used artillery and mortars and there were no casualties on the government side, he said. In the second incident, militants ambushed a military convoy but suffered upto 30 casualties when security forces fought back, Abbas said. “We had a convoy passing through Chaghmalai. Miscreants started firing on the convoy. The security forces retaliated and there was a firefight for an hour or two and then the security forces cleared the area,” he said. Four members of the security forces were wounded in the second clash, he said.(Posted @ 18:53 PST, Updated @ 19:38 PST))

Well seems like the PA response has finally started.
 
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RAWALPINDI, Jan. 18 (APP): An army spokesman has strongly denied the report carried by a foreign news agency on Thursday regarding abandoning of Siplatoi Fort by the security forces in South Waziristan Agency. Siplatoi Fort has not been abandoned and security forces are holding the fort. However, miscreants fired some rockets and small arms, which was responded appropriately, the spokesman said.(Posted @ 18:39 PST)
- DAWN - Latest Stories; January 18, 2008
 
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I highly doubt that the tribal fighters actually value the fort it self militarily. IMO this is more of a symbolic gesture indicating their intent to remain belligerent through "extreme bravery", use that glory to garner more support for their movement, and most of all bleed the PA. Everytime the PA has to mobilize to free another district, fort, town, etc a lot of money has to be spent. In the mean time we'll see more brazen symbolic attacks, a few "last hold" type martyrdom scenarios and a series of whac a mole incidents.
 
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The article is biased and am shocked to see such a pannicy behavior of senior members,

The article is unable to provide any solid evidence of any PA resource quooting of unable to fight these miscreants.

No.2 even if PA hav retreated does that mean they have lost the war to several miscreants, they might hav planned it out to do it properly cary out operation later on.

I dont agree with any one of u above.
 
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The article may have its usual quota of sensationalism.

However, the issue is that the Fort was abandoned without a fight.

Be it the military or the par military, it is their bounden duty to stand and fight and not give the terrorist a morale raising victory!
 
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I understand what you're saying, Agnostic, but let's examine the situation objectively.

1. February 2007 Musharraf

"Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf admitted today that some militant fighters are crossing the border from Pakistan to support the Taliban in Afghanistan.

"I know that at some [border] posts a blind eye was being turned," Musharraf told reporters today, "but we are taking all kinds of action to the people implementing our orders on the ground at the checkpoints.""

Where does it say above that he thinks it's only the Afghans recrossing back the border ie the "Afghan Taliban"?

The Blotter: Musharraf Admits Holes in Border Allow Some Fighters Into Afghanistan

2. August 2007 Musharraf

General Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, made a rare admission on Sunday before hundreds of Pakistani and Afghan delegates at a grand tribal assembly here, saying that support for militants emanating from Pakistan had caused problems for Afghanistan, and that his country should work to secure peace on its side of their mutual border.

"I realize this problem goes deeper, there is support from these areas," Musharraf told delegates on Sunday. "There is no doubt Afghan militants are supported from Pakistan soil. The problem that you have in your region is because support is provided from our side."

Where does it say that the Pakistan support of Taliban is strictly Afghan only?

Musharraf admits Taliban getting cross-border aid - International Herald Tribune

On a visit to Kabul to meet Afghan President Hamid Karzai last week, Musharraf admitted for the first time that the Taliban are using Pakistan as a base.

"There are al-Qaeda and Taliban in both Afghanistan and Pakistan," Musharraf said. "Clearly they are crossing from the Pakistan side and causing bomb blasts in Afghanistan.’"

Where is the distinction by Musharaff between Afghan and Pakistani Taliban?

Musharraf lets Taliban attack Canadian troops: security expert

3. October 2007 Musharraf

As troops fanned out in Pakistan's north-western province to counter activities of a pro-Taliban cleric, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf [Images] said the main threat to the country's national security is "internal" with a handful of extremists out to disrupt law and order.

"The only solution to this problem is "to reject forces that fanned hatred, led to sectarian strife and involved extremist forces", he said addressing troops at Skardu in the Northern Areas.

The beleaguered military ruler said, "The real threat to the stability of Pakistan is internal and a handful of extremists are out to disrupt law and order."

Where does it say it's the Afghan Taliban who are the ones responsible for insecurity within Pakistan?

Musharraf admits internal threats


4. December 2007 Baituallah Mehsud

Baitullah Mehsud, the 34-year-old pro-Taleban militant commander, fits the part of the Pakistani tribal guerrilla leader to the hilt.

The few journalists who have met him speak of his earnest desire to support his actions by his interpretation of Islamic ideals.

The emphasis here is on jihad (holy war) against foreign occupying forces in Afghanistan and the establishment of an Islamic state.

These include the use of suicide bombers and cross-border attacks on international forces based there.

Talking to the BBC in an exclusive interview earlier in 2007, he said the militants were dead set on their goal of freeing Afghanistan through jihad.

"Only jihad can bring peace to the world," he said.

The militant leader on several occasions has openly admitted to crossing the border to fight foreign troops.

When another BBC team visited his area in October 2007, his spokesman Zulfiqar told us he was away fighting in Afghanistan.

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Profile: Baitullah Mehsud

Mehsud, a Pakistani tribe leader, actively supports and sends fighters and suicide bombers in to Afghanistan. He even goes there to fight himself. What cannot be clearer?


5. United Nations January 2007

Pakistan should do more to restrict the activities of Taliban leaders in and around the border area with Afghanistan in keeping with a UN resolution that considers its leaders to be terrorists, according to the deputy chief of the UN mission in Afghanistan.

The resolution, passed in 1999, listed 142 Taliban leaders as terrorists, but only a handful have been captured or have had their whereabouts established in the last six years, said Chris Alexander, the former Canadian ambassador to Afghanistan and now the deputy director of the UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, speaking Monday.

The resolution, which has been renewed every year, calls for governments to prevent the entry or transit of the individuals listed and for their assets to be frozen, and requires all states to prevent the direct or indirect supply, sale or transfer of arms or military equipment to those individuals, he noted.

"That resolution, 1267, as it relates to the Taliban leadership, is not so far being implemented," Alexander said. "Pakistan has taken steps against some of the people on the list, and even arrested some of the people on the list, and most experts agree that others on the list are in Pakistan or at least were in Pakistan for at least part of 2006.

"The truth is these networks are operating in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, that the leaders spend time in both countries, and that law enforcement and even military action is required wherever they are located."

Pakistan should crack down on Taliban, UN official says - International Herald Tribune



Stop denying the obvious. That will be a good first step. No wonder the international countries are enraged at what they see are Pakistan's obsfucation and denials.
 
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In military terms, that is called "dictating the tempo".

Here you have the PA on the back foot and reacting to the enemy's moves, which means the border areas are a long long way from being pacified and that the enemy is capable of massing power at specific points to create advantageous situations. Who exactly is the writ of the law here? Has Taliban law taken over?

Furthermore, high hundreds of militants attacking at once? Which other country is something like this happening?
 
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This does clarify the obfuscation of Pakistani Taliban and Afghan Taliban and that they do not cross over etc and such like humbug that some in denial wish to pull wool with, assuming greater insight than the President himself and the ISI Head of Afghan Bureau! What pretensions to knowledge!

The Taliban is a serious problem that requires immediate address before they become larger than life!
 
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I understand what you're saying, Agnostic, but let's examine the situation objectively.

"There are al-Qaeda and Taliban in both Afghanistan and Pakistan," Musharraf said. "Clearly they are crossing from the Pakistan side and causing bomb blasts in Afghanistan.’"

Where is the distinction by Musharaff between Afghan and Pakistani Taliban?

And you miss the word Al-qaeda altogather good :)


4. December 2007 Baituallah Mehsud

Baitullah Mehsud, the 34-year-old pro-Taleban militant commander, fits the part of the Pakistani tribal guerrilla leader to the hilt.

The few journalists who have met him speak of his earnest desire to support his actions by his interpretation of Islamic ideals.

The emphasis here is on jihad (holy war) against foreign occupying forces in Afghanistan and the establishment of an Islamic state.

These include the use of suicide bombers and cross-border attacks on international forces based there.

Talking to the BBC in an exclusive interview earlier in 2007, he said the militants were dead set on their goal of freeing Afghanistan through jihad.

"Only jihad can bring peace to the world," he said.

The militant leader on several occasions has openly admitted to crossing the border to fight foreign troops.

When another BBC team visited his area in October 2007, his spokesman Zulfiqar told us he was away fighting in Afghanistan.

And Baitullah Meshdus is wanted to Pakistan too and he is responsible for many attacks in Pakistan too killing hunderds of innocent people.

And Above all he has links with outside forces who are using him as proxy.

AND ABOVE ALL.

It was US who had released Baitullah Mehsud from Notorious Guaentanmo Bay and than instead of handing over him to Pakistani authorities the US had handed him over to Afghanistan from where he was facilitated by same super power along with help of Afghan Govt to enter into Pakistan.

Why was that done ????????? Why not the US government convicted him as you posted the news wherein it was clearly stated that Baitullah was fighting in Afghanistan than how on earth the US released him ?????????




Stop denying the obvious. That will be a good first step. No wonder the international countries are enraged at what they see are Pakistan's obsfucation and denials.

Ahhh same language in harmony with your other countryman :)

why dont you show some courage and have flag of your own country ;)
 
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