Fareed Zakaria & Moeed Yusuf on the Changing Global Order under US-China Contest

[FuturePAF]

in my opinion brother , The friendship between China and Pakistan is mutual and longer than economic ties. Pakistan and China need to counteract india together for stability. While I completely agree with your frustrations I think it’s important to remember than Pakistan has been under a coup regime installed by the US and as a result been stupid in geopolitics. We do have a close relationship between China and Pakistan have been for decades. The conflict between Pakistan and india is an important part of the equation here as well. I personally want a developing relations with China means that we have chosen a mutually beneficial path. Relations with China means mutual development. Relations with US means boss servant relations.

Every nation has to find a way to have relations with every other nation it deals with. As the leader of the current global order, good relations with the US are paramount for Pakistan.

Despite the pressures, Pakistan has to build up its internal industrial capacity to not be reliant on importing basic items. Pakistan needs a plan to achieve a trade surplus if it must import petrochemicals. For that it needs FDI and the best talent it can attract.

All this requires the elite opening up and sitting down with IK, who has the ear of many in the diaspora, and can attract the cheapest FDI. Once that virtuous cycle is started and set, with economic and political and legal reforms, other FDI will follow. Why does it come back to IK, for the reason that he is like any other overseas Pakistani; naive to the minutiae of Pakistani politics and basically wants to cut the red tape to speed up development. Accommodate him and you will be accommodating those that are willing to invest in Pakistan even if something barely turns a profit for a long time, before it takes off.

Further, the image of a vibrant democracy, that comes with less red tape and legal protections will attract those looking for next rapid growth market. Pakistan is surrounded by larger economics (except Afghanistan). It is posed to reap the benefits of reforms if it gets serious about making them. 5-10 years of pain, for long term gains for decades upon decades.

Do all this, see sustained 8+% annual growth for a couple decades (as predicted by the world bank is possible to reach a GDP of $2 Trillion by 2050) and all the major nations will come back around, bury the hatchet with Pakistan, especially if it ditched some old shortsighted ways, and embraces a more pragmatic, predictable, and HDI oriented outlook.

 

[kingQamaR]

Ah so...thanks


IMO Beijing is not really a good cultural fit for us. I don't see how far this relationship can go. We are better suited to the liberal West.

As a matter of fact, China has been the ally of Pakistan at almost every problem pakistan has faced. They have developed our defences by giving us technologies to be used in JF17 fighter jets, Alkhalid Tanks and missile technology. Pakistans nuclear powers has also been helped by Chinese and they’ve been investing huge amounts of money and risks in CPEC in a country which was nearly destroyed because it sided with the US in the war of terror helped us back.. US join hands with india to make them their strategic partner in this region. We need to acknowledge this important factor west is not good to us it has no choice but support india against China in the long run will hurt you

 

[SD 10]

Reality

India getting Milk and Honey from USA
India getting Milk and Honey from Russia
India sending record number of people to UK/Canada/USA
India already has a people exchange program with Russia


Unsure why Pakistan is mentioned we don't even have a "Recognized Government" the people of country do not recognize it

we are nobody in international arena.... india is a global power now whether we admit it or not! They have their problems but at the moment thye are a 1000 times better than us in every way!

 

[Joe Shearer]

My dear Bengali friend why do you get so worked up over the gangus. You are not even a Gangu cause you are Bengali and belong to Bengaldesh.

It's the purest fun available on line. Bash on.

Honestly India is just like Africa forced to be a country minus north Africa it is completely divided. It is just useless heap of pacifists and historically a chest of gold that is harvested of whomever comes first. They are inferior culturally to these outside of the mainland India countries like Pakistan, IEA, Iran, China etc etc..

1. Pacifist is a bad thing. Even if it gets a country rich, and the reverse gets a country bankrupt (hint, hint!).
2. Historically a chest of gold - er, how do you think a culturally backward country gets rich to sit on chests of gold?
3. Inferior culturally - in what way, exactly? Art? Architecture? Music? Dance? Sculpture? Philosophy? What do you have in mind, idiot, when you use the term culture?
4. What is unique to the 'culture' of Afghanistan and Pakistan? If you strip away the pan-Indian, the South Asian cultural matrix, what is left?

Your posts are so stupid that they are worth reading only for the amusement value.

Please continue. These posts, for that reason, the amusement value, are priceless.

It is just a large elepant that is empty inside when it really matters. It is like a major ballon that is entirely bluff but we see thru that clearly.

How is it that for 75 years you have not managed to do anything about it? Do you realise how silly you sound?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Some may view India with significiance but they aren't but a sitting steak of beef that can be consumed..

THIS is profound!

Perhaps the most profound that we may expect.

 

[kingQamaR]

we are nobody in international arena.... india is a global power now whether we admit it or not! They have their problems but at the moment thye are a 1000 times better than us in every way!

Blame the west for this. Their hatred of China made him run to Delhi. Like in Ukraine, they’ve opened UP all their opportunities to india from trade, students, to defence. It’s not right always putting all blame on Pakistan. In my opening post I DID explained we have been pulled in China vs west. Pakistan is paying heavy price IS seen as an enemy of their new best friend ally Delhi. We must got to sail out of this storm we will eventually hit calm waters God willing.

 

[_NOBODY_]

in my opinion brother , The friendship between China and Pakistan is mutual and longer than economic ties. Pakistan and China need to counteract india together for stability. While I completely agree with your frustrations I think it’s important to remember than Pakistan has been under a coup regime installed by the US and as a result been stupid in geopolitics. We do have a close relationship between China and Pakistan have been for decades. The conflict between Pakistan and india is an important part of the equation here as well. I personally want a developing relations with China means that we have chosen a mutually beneficial path. Relations with China means mutual development. Relations with US means boss servant relations.

You are only looking at things from the geopolitical lens; consequently, you are missing one extremely important element. The West continues to remain our largest buyer by far and this won't be changing anytime soon. When you realize that the West is and will remain our main export destination then the need for balancing relations with the West and China becomes even more important.

 

[Redbeanpaste]

As a matter of fact, China has been the ally of Pakistan at almost every problem pakistan has faced. They have developed our defences by giving us technologies to be used in JF17 fighter jets, Alkhalid Tanks and missile technology. Pakistans nuclear powers has also been helped by Chinese and they’ve been investing huge amounts of money and risks in CPEC in a country which was nearly destroyed because it sided with the US in the war of terror helped us back.. US join hands with india to make them their strategic partner in this region. We need to acknowledge this important factor west is not good to us it has no choice but support india against China in the long run will hurt you

Please note that the West was rabidly anti India and pro Pakistan to start off. Both US and UK.

We lost the advantage and played for chumps by our game in Afghanistan. OBL was the last straw for the west.

The West still holds most of the keys for getting rich. I am pretty sure they are behind the current go slow from the IMF. China is unable or unwilling to help.

 

[SD 10]

Blame the west for this. Their hatred of China made him run to Delhi. Like in Ukraine, they’ve opened UP all their opportunities to india from trade, students, to defence. It’s not right always putting all blame on Pakistan. In my opening post I DID explained we have been pulled in China vs west. Pakistan is paying heavy price IS seen as an enemy of their new best friend ally Delhi. We must got to sail out of this storm we will eventually hit calm waters God willing.

the outside influence in this is minimal. We have destroyed ourselves due to our inability to run the country. there has never been stability. If we had succeded in establishing a good economy, we would have seen our standing improving in the world.

 

[OIO]

Pakistan is convincing Americans that they are not on the side of China, but they are convincing others that Pakistan and China are very close.

However, the situation has changed recently. Pakistan is using RMB to buy oil from Russia, and China may give Pakistan RMB assistance.

Although Pakistan has no oil, but has a very good relationship with the Gulf countries. Why didn't Pakistan develop the petrochemical industry earlier?

 

[nahtanbob]

But I think it is better to side with China. I agree with you that Xi's daughter studied at Harvard.
I too studied in Canadian institutions as well.

Why should I care about USA, I am not an American, therefore I do not give a dogshit for USA.

Your country Canada is a military & economic ally of USA between NORAD, NATO, NAFTA etc.
There is nothing insignificant character like you can do about it

As a matter of fact, China has been the ally of Pakistan at almost every problem pakistan has faced. They have developed our defences by giving us technologies to be used in JF17 fighter jets, Alkhalid Tanks and missile technology. Pakistans nuclear powers has also been helped by Chinese and they’ve been investing huge amounts of money and risks in CPEC in a country which was nearly destroyed because it sided with the US in the war of terror helped us back.. US join hands with india to make them their strategic partner in this region. We need to acknowledge this important factor west is not good to us it has no choice but support india against China in the long run will hurt you

cut off textile exports & remittances - Pakistan will take a 20-30% hit in living standards. It is manageable over time.
Your army generals are scared at the prospect of full fledged alliance between America and India. Hence all the hedging or pretense of hedging

 

[SD 10]

Although Pakistan has no oil, but has a very good relationship with the Gulf countries. Why didn't Pakistan develop the petrochemical industry earlier?

We pakistanis are not exactly known for our long term planning!

 

[Meengla]

Pakistan has to earn its way back into relevance. It has to work on itself and everyone is waiting to see where Pakistan political and economic chips fall by the end of the year. If a practical deal can be worked out between “them” and IK, in which Pakistan’s narrative allows it to play the democracy and rule of law card well, it can use it to rebuild its economic house. From there it step back from overt strategic moves and focus on the economy, in hopes of attracting FDI and restructure its loans, but leaving room to move on to phase 2 of CPEC; industrialization and SEZs.

China knows for Pakistan to earn exports it needs Pakistan to have access to Western markets. So they also have to temper themselves in terms of how much Pakistan can do with them.

You STILL think there is scope for Imran Khan in Pakistan's political setup?? Not for several more years--if ever.

But, yes, the 'chips' are going to fall and they are falling in place rapidly with a new, military backed order in place in Pakistan and I believe Pakistan's foreign backers, starting from China, want stability and focus in Pakistan. The global order is rapidly changing and Pakistan was missing from it due to the political mayhem of the last 14 months. Pakistan was supposed to capitalize on the strategic victory when Americans left Afghanistan but instead Pakistan's ruling class went in overdrive to grab power since then and forgot about everything else.

But the bigger chips are falling elsewhere with huge ramifications for the global order: The Russia-Ukraine war. In that order, due to Pakistan's geographic location, Pakistan will play a significant part. Pakistan needs to be ready and to be ready will require stability and focus in Pakistan.

As for Pakistan's ties with the West: Look at where Pakistan's trade is? The money and opportunities lie in the Middle East and America-backed West and America's rich allies. Pakistan can't afford to alienate America and I think Chinese also understand that. Rich, PDF Pakistanis sitting in the West wishing destruction on Pakistan (not saying YOU are one of those--on the contrary). Sensible leadership is needed. Not fake revolutionaries and loose cannons. With a stroke of his pen, Biden could have crippled Pakistan's economy when Imran was falsely accusing Americans of the regime change while Imran was a sitting Prime Minister of Pakistan.

Otherwise, your post is on the mark.