Fareed Zakaria & Moeed Yusuf on the Changing Global Order under US-China Contest

[_NOBODY_]

Fareed Zakaria & Moeed Yusuf on the Changing Global Order under US-China Contest​

In a special edition of InferTalks Dr. Fareed Zakaria, Host, GPS, CNN, joins Dr. Moeed Yusuf, former Pakistan NSA, on the US-China dynamic and what could de-coupling or escalation between the two great powers mean for global order. Will the US and China heed calls for dialogue to de-escalate tensions or will the world need to brace for a growing specter of contest and conflict?

Chapters:

00:00-00:44 Highlights
00:45-01:10 Intro
01:11-04:17 What prompted you to move to US and start your professional journey, and the struggles you endured?
04:18-06:46 Has the US lost its moral legitimacy after the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? Is there truth to that?
06:47-10:41 In terms of remoralization, how can the paradox be explained when China is also brokering peace in Middle East?
10:42-15:23 How can Pakistan balance relations when there is so much growing competition between China and the United States?
15:24-16:54 Has Pakistan moved too close to China's camp?
16:55-18:16 Can Pakistan convince the US and China to avoid contestation in the region and inside Pakistan?
18:17-22:24 Is a dialogue between the US and China a lost cause?
22:26-25:03 Can guardrails be placed in this growing competition between the US and China?
25:04-27:26 How critical are confidence-building measures from preventing spy balloon-like crises from escalating?
27:27-30:44 Can in the middle of the US-China crises Pakistan balance its relations with the two great powers?
30:45-32:42 Is there a prospect of peace between India and Pakistan?
32:43-37:15 Has India's shift from multi-aligned policy benefitted the country as it shifts close to the United States?
37:16-40:27 What is the shift on where India might end up at the geopolitics level, andwill there be a drag in international community on India's domestic curbs on media, free speech, and treatment of minorities?
40:29 -43:56 What the future of world looks like in the next 10-15 years?
43:57-44:14 Conclusion

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[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Reality

India getting Milk and Honey from USA
India getting Milk and Honey from Russia
India sending record number of people to UK/Canada/USA
India already has a people exchange program with Russia


Unsure why Pakistan is mentioned we don't even have a "Recognized Government" the people of country do not recognize it

 

[kingQamaR]

Great discussion on an important topic. Moeed made very good points on Pakistan difficult balancing act between US and China I do fear Sooner or later Pakistan will be found out made pick a side. Fingers cross that will not happen . On Beijing in my opinion it’s not pulling its heavy weight regarding help for Pakistan. We are being pulverised in all areas by the west pro India because of their anti China policy and are now pro India from selling trade to defence. China needs to address asap

 

[Titanium100]

Reality

India getting Milk and Honey from USA
India getting Milk and Honey from Russia
India sending record number of people to UK/Canada/USA
India already has a people exchange program with Russia


Unsure why Pakistan is mentioned we don't even have a "Recognized Government" the people of country do not recognize it

You got it all wrong.. India is avoiding becoming the next Ukraine and that is the honest truth.. India will never tilt away from Russia because that will spell her end.. The Americans are trying to move India away from Russia but fail to understand that Russia is India's safety net against China-Pakistan.. Because Russia is holding back China from India and China is holding Pakistan back from India but if the Russians say okay we lost India this will signal to China that India must go.

India doesn't like China but are forced to kneel down and suk Chinese dick for their own survival.. Why do you think they are in brics, eliminating US dollars etc etc.. The Americans will understand that India doesn't want to become the next Ukraine in a China dominant region along with India's multiple enemies..

the regional countries who are china aligned like Iran, IEA, Pakistan, North Korea will end up in India within a single morning. You can include Vietnam as China is gathered cannon fodders across the far east.. Myanmar and Vietnam could serve as good base cannon fodders for China hence gaining influence there is key.. Myanmmar is already China's but they need Vietnam which is close to happen which will be a great source of cannon fodders to China..

Why do you think Putin had a meeting with Xi days before invasion and invited Imran Khan to Moscow on the eve of the Ukraine invasion because Putin was worried that the Iron brothers will use his war as cover to invade India..

India knows deep down that it will lose a war against Pakistan, IEA and Iran down the line if it came to it and note these countries will get involved because they don't want India to border them hence it is within their security interest that India is contained on the LOC. Nor can India win a war against China but China won't come alone as it has friends in the region.. Pakistan, IEA, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, and Nepal including Sir Lanka besides China has circled India. The Indians understand the Americans only wants to use them as cannon fodders and once sacrificed they will wash their hands of them like they did with the Ghani Regime and they will do with Ukraine.

India could become the first casuality in the far-east.. Hence the Indians will do everything they can do to suk Chinese dick in order to survive and there is nothing on earth the US can do to flip India at this point of time

 

[Joe Shearer]

You got it all wrong.. India is avoiding becoming the next Ukraine and that is the honest truth.. India will never tilt away from Russia because that will spell her end.. The Americans are trying to move India away from Russia but fail to understand that Russia is India's safety net against China-Pakistan.. Because Russia is holding back China from India and China is holding Pakistan back from India but if the Russians say okay we lost India this will signal to China that India must go.

India doesn't like China but are forced to kneel down and suk Chinese dick for their own survival.. Why do you think they are in brics, eliminating US dollars etc etc.. The Americans will understand that India doesn't want to become the next Ukraine in a China dominant region along with India's multiple enemies..

the regional countries who are china aligned like Iran, IEA, Pakistan, North Korea will end up in India within a single morning. You can include Vietnam as China is gathered cannon fodders across the far east.. Myanmar and Vietnam could serve as good base cannon fodders for China hence gaining influence there is key.. Myanmmar is already China's but they need Vietnam which is close to happen which will be a great source of cannon fodders to China..

Why do you think Putin had a meeting with Xi days before invasion and invited Imran Khan to Moscow on the eve of the Ukraine invasion because Putin was worried that the Iron brothers will use his war as cover to invade India..

India knows deep down that it will lose a war against Pakistan, IEA and Iran down the line if it came to it and note these countries will get involved because they don't want India to border them hence it is within their security interest that India is contained on the LOC. Nor can India win a war against China but China won't come alone as it has friends in the region.. Pakistan, IEA, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, and Nepal including Sir Lanka besides China has circled India. The Indians understand the Americans only wants to use them as cannon fodders and once sacrificed they will wash their hands of them like they did with the Ghani Regime and they will do with Ukraine.

India could become the first casuality in the far-east.. Hence the Indians will do everything they can do to suk Chinese dick in order to survive and there is nothing on earth the US can do to flip India at this point of time

Here we go. Titanium brains in action again.

India knows deep down that it will lose a war against Pakistan,

Pakistan, IEA, Iran, North Korea, Myanmar, and Nepal including Sir Lanka besides China has circled India.

Main battle tanks to be deployed by the Encircling Army

 

[Redbeanpaste]

Who is this IEA you keep mentioning?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Who is this IEA you keep mentioning?

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, as every important strategic analyst knows. Now that we have been put in our place, relax and watch the rant (these are not audible but merely visible rants).

I'll get the popcorn if you like.

 

[PakFactor]

Great discussion on an important topic. Moeed made very good points on Pakistan difficult balancing act between US and China I do fear Sooner or later Pakistan will be found out made pick a side. Fingers cross that will not happen . On Beijing in my opinion it’s not pulling its heavy weight regarding help for Pakistan. We are being pulverised in all areas by the west pro India because of their anti China policy and are now pro India from selling trade to defence. China needs to address asap

It's more that they now see Pakistani double face, and it's not a trustworthy partner. It's a dead horse they have to carry, and no one takes a dead horse to war as it's just a burden.

I also want to point you to the security conference during Bajwa time with Moeed Yousuf and focus on the words of Bajwa. He said America doesn't sell, and the last resort is China. If I were the Chinese, I would be pissed as your so-called strategic partner relegated you to second class in front of the world. If I picked up on that, do you think the Chinese haven't? Hence you see they've not as much interest. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

 

[Redbeanpaste]

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, as every important strategic analyst knows. Now that we have been put in our place, relax and watch the rant (these are not audible but merely visible rants).

I'll get the popcorn if you like.

Ah so...thanks

Great discussion on an important topic. Moeed made very good points on Pakistan difficult balancing act between US and China I do fear Sooner or later Pakistan will be found out made pick a side. Fingers cross that will not happen . On Beijing in my opinion it’s not pulling its heavy weight regarding help for Pakistan. We are being pulverised in all areas by the west pro India because of their anti China policy and are now pro India from selling trade to defence. China needs to address asap

IMO Beijing is not really a good cultural fit for us. I don't see how far this relationship can go. We are better suited to the liberal West.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I hope Pakistan sides with China. USA has betrayed Pakistan many times.

And at least China is "Anti-Crusade."

Enough said.

 

[Titanium100]

Here we go. Titanium brains in action again.

Main battle tanks to be deployed by the Encircling Army

My dear Bengali friend why do you get so worked up over the gangus. You are not even a Gangu cause you are Bengali and belong to Bengaldesh.

Honestly India is just like Africa forced to be a country minus north Africa it is completely divided. It is just useless heap of pacifists and historically a chest of gold that is harvested of whomever comes first. They are inferior culturally to these outside of the mainland India countries like Pakistan, IEA, Iran, China etc etc..

It is just a large elepant that is empty inside when it really matters. It is like a major ballon that is entirely bluff but we see thru that clearly.

Some may view India with significiance but they aren't but a sitting steak of beef that can be consumed..

 

[FuturePAF]

Great discussion on an important topic. Moeed made very good points on Pakistan difficult balancing act between US and China I do fear Sooner or later Pakistan will be found out made pick a side. Fingers cross that will not happen . On Beijing in my opinion it’s not pulling its heavy weight regarding help for Pakistan. We are being pulverised in all areas by the west pro India because of their anti China policy and are now pro India from selling trade to defence. China needs to address asap

I think China is waiting for Pakistan to make its stance clear, vis a vi how much of a partner Pakistan is willing to be. In other threads, many Chinese commentators have said China sees Russia and Iran as quite committed to a 100% China stance, but Pakistan as still tilted towards the west.

For Pakistan’s elite, they want to maintain those links and access to the western world, and in my opinion they aren’t wrong for wanting that.

Many of the elite Iranians and Russians want to work in the best western environments and live in western cities. Even Xi’s daughter studied at Harvard. So it’s not fair to ask Pakistan to ditch the reliable “retirement perks” its society still has access to, and can offer its elite. Most of the diaspora outside of the GCC is in the West, and diaspora is a source of remittances, talent, and potential access with western governments.

What Pakistan needs, IMHO, is to support China in ways that are economic and strategic in ways that don’t affect core western interests. CPEC (with its extension to Central Asia) is one example. In fact, CPEC could be the infrastructure upon which western companies use a non-Chinese route to get to Central Asia, when Russia and Iran can block Caspian routes via Turkey.

This is whyPakistan can not become overly beholden to any one power or block and needs to built up its internal market and industries to operate in the lean times as well as during major floods, such as right now. Benefiting when it can, and surviving when the cycle ends and requires it to do so.

Pakistan should study the balancing act of Tito’s Yugoslavia for example. But even there, hopefully Pakistan limits its involvement in ether’s military endeavors to not draw unwanted attention, especially as it hopes to build up its economy.

Pakistan has a lot of catch up work to do. We are basically a deindustrialized nation akin to a preindustrialized nation, if you look at our demographic pyramid.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

I think China is waiting for Pakistan to make its stance clear, vis a bi how much of a partner Pakistan is willing to be. In other threads, China sees Russia and Iran as quite committed to a 100% China stance.

For Pakistan’s elite, they want to maintain those links and access to the western world, and in my opinion they aren’t wrong for wanting that.

Many of the elite Iranians and Russians want to work in the best western environments and live in western cities. Even Xi’s daughter studied at Harvard. So it’s not fair to ask Pakistan to ditch the reliable “retirement perks” its society still has access to.

What Pakistan needs, IMHO, is to support China in ways that are economic and strategic in ways that don’t affect core western interests. CPEC (with its extension to Central Asia) is one example. In fact, CPEC could be the infrastructure upon which western companies use a non-Chinese route to get to Central Asia, when Russia and Iran can block Caspian routes via Turkey.

This is whyPakistan can not become overly beholden to any one power or block and needs to built up its internal market and industries to operate in the lean times as well as during major floods, such as right now.

Pakistan should study the balancing act of Tito’s Yugoslavia for example.

But I think it is better to side with China. I agree with you that Xi's daughter studied at Harvard.
I too studied in Canadian institutions as well.

Why should I care about USA, I am not an American, therefore I do not give a dogshit for USA.

 

[kingQamaR]

I think China is waiting for Pakistan to make its stance clear, vis a bi how much of a partner Pakistan is willing to be. In other threads, China sees Russia and Iran as quite committed to a 100% China stance.

For Pakistan’s elite, they want to maintain those links and access to the western world, and in my opinion they aren’t wrong for wanting that.

Many of the elite Iranians and Russians want to work in the best western environments and live in western cities. Even Xi’s daughter studied at Harvard. So it’s not fair to ask Pakistan to ditch the reliable “retirement perks” its society still has access to.

What Pakistan needs, IMHO, is to support China in ways that are economic and strategic in ways that don’t affect core western interests. CPEC (with its extension to Central Asia) is one example. In fact, CPEC could be the infrastructure upon which western companies use a non-Chinese route to get to Central Asia, when Russia and Iran can block Caspian routes via Turkey.

This is a joy Pakistan can not become overly beholden to any one power or block and needs to built up its internal market and industries to operate in the lean times as well as during major floods, such as right now.

Pakistan should study the balancing act of Tito’s Yugoslavia for example.

in my opinion brother , The friendship between China and Pakistan is mutual and longer than economic ties. Pakistan and China need to counteract india together for stability. While I completely agree with your frustrations I think it’s important to remember than Pakistan has been under a coup regime installed by the US and as a result been stupid in geopolitics. We do have a close relationship between China and Pakistan have been for decades. The conflict between Pakistan and india is an important part of the equation here as well. I personally want a developing relations with China means that we have chosen a mutually beneficial path. Relations with China means mutual development. Relations with US means boss servant relations.

 

[FuturePAF]

It's more of they now see Pakistani double face and it's not a trustworthy partner. It's a dead horse they have to carry, and no one takes a dead horse to war as it's just a burden.

I also want to point you to the security conference during Bajwa time with Moeed Yousuf and focus on the words of Bajwa. He said, America doesn't sell and the last resort is China. If I was the Chinese I would be pissed as your so-called strategic partner relegated you to second class in front of the world. If I picked up on that you think the Chinese haven't. Hence you see they've not as much interest. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

Pakistan has to earn its way back into relevance. It has to work on itself and everyone is waiting to see where Pakistan political and economic chips fall by the end of the year. If a practical deal can be worked out between “them” and IK, in which Pakistan’s narrative allows it to play the democracy and rule of law card well, it can use it to rebuild its economic house. From there it step back from overt strategic moves and focus on the economy, in hopes of attracting FDI and restructure its loans, but leaving room to move on to phase 2 of CPEC; industrialization and SEZs.

China knows for Pakistan to earn exports it needs Pakistan to have access to Western markets. So they also have to temper themselves in terms of how much Pakistan can do with them.