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FAQs on India's Massive 34% Hike in Military Spending

Since we are spewing out numbers and %ages and ranks so putting in some more (2008-2009)for every one's benefit

1. Pop Below poverty line.. India 25%, Pak 24%
2. Inflation rate .. India 8.3%, Pak 20.3%
3. Reserves .. India $239 billion, Pak $16 Billion
4. External debt as % of GDP .. India 8%.. Pak 11%
5. INFANT MORTALITY RATE.. India 30%, Pak 65%
6. Life expectancy at birth.. India 70, Pak 64
7. Literacy rate.. India 61%, Pak 50%
8. Economy growth rate.. India 7.4%, Pak 2.7%
9 Exports.. India $174 bn, Pak $25 bn
10. Global competitiveness Index rank India 49/133 Pak 101/133


So have a look, and then why dont you focus on fixing your issues and let us focus on ours.

It's clear that you do not quote any sources, nor do you understand your own numbers.

For example, where did you get the poverty figure of 25% in India vs 24% for Pakistan? The figures from UNDP 2009 HDR report show India at 42% poverty, about twice Pakistan's 22%.

http://hdrstats.undp.org/en/indicators/102.html

And what does infant mortality of India 30%, Pak 65% mean? This is extremely high! It's crazy! Where did you get this info?

The UNICEF figures indicate Under-5 mortality rate per 1000 live births (2007) Pakistan - 90 India 72

UNICEF - Information by country

This is just a sample to show the errors in your numbers and your thinking. It looks more like a made-up reality that is only good for self-deception.
 
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34% increase on defense by any definition is massive.

$32 billion dollars on defense by any definition is massive in a country that is home to the world's largest population of poor, illiterate and hungry people.

Pakistan's defense expenditure is about $5.5 billion (vs $32 billion for India), including foreign defense aid. As I said in my post, it is about 3% of Pakistan's GDP. And it has never been increased year-over-year by 34%. And Pakistan's poverty and hunger is not nearly as severe as India's.

One out of every three illiterate adults in the world is an Indian, according to UNESCO.

One out of very two hungry persons in the world is an Indian, according to World Food Program.

Almost one out of two Indians lives below the poverty line of $1.25 per day.

And yet, India spends $32 billion on defense, and just increased the defense budget by 34% this year.

Here are some more recent comparative indicators in South Asia:

Poverty:

Population living under $1.25 a day - India: 41.6% Pakistan: 22.6% Source: UNDP

Underweight Children Under Five (in percent) Pakistan 38% India 46% Source: UNICEF

Life expectancy at birth (years), 2007 India: 63.4 Pakistan: 66.2 Source: HDR2009

Education:

Youth (15–24 years) literacy rate, 2000 to 2007, male Pak istan: 80% India 87% Source: UNICEF

Youth (15–24 years) literacy rate, 2000 to 2007, female Pak istan 60% India 77% Source: UNICEF

Economics:

GDP per capita (US$), 2008 Pak:$1000-1022 India $1017-1100

Child Protection:

Child marriage under 15-years ; 1998–2007*, total Pak istan - 32% India - 47% Source: UNICEF

Under-5 mortality rate per 1000 live births (2007), Value Pakistan - 90 India 72 Source: UNICEF

In spite of the grim statistics above, India is ranked the fourth biggest military spender in terms of purchasing power parity.

I'm sort of doubtful that spending less on military in India would help reduce its social problems tremendously.

Many of the problems are not caused by lack of resources, but by Indian social system.

A typical example is perpetual starvation in India. International society is aware that India has the food, but the system prevents the food from reaching the poor and the discriminated.

Another example would be education. Even you give money to the vast poor in villages to educate their kids, the un- or under-educated would still neglect the girls... 50% of the population.
 
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I'm sort of doubtful that spending less on military in India would help reduce its social problems tremendously.

Many of the problems are not caused by lack of resources, but by Indian social system.

A typical example is perpetual starvation in India. International society is aware that India has the food, but the system prevents the food from reaching the poor and the discriminated.

Another example would be education. Even you give money to the vast poor in villages to educate their kids, the un- or under-educated would still neglect the girls... 50% of the population.

Actually it's both. There's an acute lack of resources, and a squandering/wasting of resources (eg food). The rural transportation in India is so lacking that by the time food arrives to market it is spoiled. Add to that there is hording of food by a select few.

That said, what we are trying to tell our fellow Indians is they are playing a dangerous gamble. Look at USSR. If they proceed then more and more of the masses will rise up (Tribals, Naxalites, Minorities, etc) and a full blown civil war will erupt, the magnitude that the world has never witnessed before. Gamble with money but don't gamble with your children's future.
 
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...

India doesnt care about Pakistan armed forces. It is looking out to the world and improving to face some other enemy.

I admire your (plural) expiration. Tremendously.

"When we talk of a resurgent Asia, people think of the great changes that have come about in Shanghai. I share this aspiration with the chief minister and senior Congress leaders to transform Mumbai in the next five years in such a manner that people would forget about Shanghai and Mumbai will become a talking point." -October, 2004, India PM Manmohan Singh

Today's date: Feb. 9, 2010, EST of USA.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/26534-5-years-people-forget-about-shanghai-talk-mumbai.html
 
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It's clear that you do not quote any sources, nor do you understand your own numbers.

For example, where did you get the poverty figure of 25% in India vs 24% for Pakistan? The figures from UNDP 2009 HDR report show India at 42% poverty, about twice Pakistan's 22%.

Human Development Report 2009 - Population living below $1.25 a day (%)

And what does infant mortality of India 30%, Pak 65% mean? This is extremely high! It's crazy! Where did you get this info?

The UNICEF figures indicate Under-5 mortality rate per 1000 live births (2007) Pakistan - 90 India 72

UNICEF - Information by country

This is just a sample to show the errors in your numbers and your thinking. It looks more like a made-up reality that is only good for self-deception.

Here you go sir.. Attaching the sources.. .. Correction on the mortality numbers. They are per thousand and not percent. My bad. ..

Also, not my numbers but from a site that tabulates CIA world Fact book.. May be you can write to the site owners that they dont understand their numbers and point out the errors in their numbers and thinking. Or maybe put up your next muse about them and their conspiracy to show india in a better light than pakistan..

PS: Added one more stats on the Human Dev Index (last one) since you keep talking about bad state of people in India..I agree that its bad, but Pakistan is worse...

1. Pop Below poverty line.. India 25%, Pak 24%
Population below poverty line - Country Comparison - TOP 100

2. Inflation rate .. India 8.3%, Pak 20.3%
Inflation rate (consumer prices) - Country Comparison - TOP 100

3. Reserves .. India $239 billion, Pak $16 Billion
Reserves of foreign exchange and gold - Country Comparison - TOP 100

4. External debt as % of GDP .. India 8%.. Pak 11%
Debt - external - Country Comparison - TOP 100

5. INFANT MORTALITY RATE(under 1).. India 30%, Pak 65%
Infant mortality rate - Country Comparison - TOP 100

6. Life expectancy at birth.. India 70, Pak 64
Life expectancy at birth - Country Comparison

7. Literacy rate.. India 61%, Pak 50%
Literacy - Country Comparison

8. Economy growth rate.. India 7.4%, Pak 2.7%
GDP - real growth rate - Country Comparison

9 Exports.. India $174 bn, Pak $25 bn
Exports - Country Comparison

10. Global competitiveness Index rank India 49/133 Pak 101/133
http://www.weforum.org/pdf/GCR09/GCR20092010fullrankings.pdf

11. Human Development Index score 2007 India .612 Pak .572
http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/HDR_2009_EN_Summary.pdf
 
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This is now a sticky thread ?. For What ?. Who made it sticky ?.
 
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I admire your (plural) expiration. Tremendously.

"When we talk of a resurgent Asia, people think of the great changes that have come about in Shanghai. I share this aspiration with the chief minister and senior Congress leaders to transform Mumbai in the next five years in such a manner that people would forget about Shanghai and Mumbai will become a talking point." -October, 2004, India PM Manmohan Singh

Today's date: Feb. 9, 2010, EST of USA.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/26534-5-years-people-forget-about-shanghai-talk-mumbai.html



dont be an idiot and read what he is telling...he said he share the same dream about a huge change in Mumbai as others ..The facelift had started also but NGO organisations and human right groups ruined it..in the end people voices counts here..
 
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Here lot of Critics about India arguing Why India spend lot of money on defence when she has lot of poor. Sir if a Terrorist coming to my country and planting a bomb or killing people by shooting he is not targeting whether innocent is a poor or a rich person. These so called terrorist don't have gut to face Our so brave armed forces and doing these act of coward because of our minimum defence strategy.
These so called terrorist are dreaming to take over not only jamu kashmir but to take over red fort.
Beside this Unprovoked infiltration bid by our neighbours whether a small one or large one like kargil will not be stopped even if India become richest country.
India need not only minimum detterrence but gap should be so much that enemy of India should think twice or thrice before doing any adventure.
 
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Here lot of Critics about India arguing Why India spend lot of money on defence when she has lot of poor. Sir if a Terrorist coming to my country and planting a bomb or killing people by shooting he is not targeting whether innocent is a poor or a rich person. These so called terrorist don't have gut to face Our so brave armed forces and doing these act of coward because of our minimum defence strategy.
These so called terrorist are dreaming to take over not only jamu kashmir but to take over red fort.
Beside this Unprovoked infiltration bid by our neighbours whether a small one or large one like kargil will not be stopped even if India become richest country.
India need not only minimum detterrence but gap should be so much that enemy of India should think twice or thrice before doing any adventure.

I am quite happy to admit that India spends a lot of money on its defence in comparison to Pakistan.

Lets put things into perspective here. Why not ?
The wealth of one company (Public , traded on NSE, BSE) in India is good enough to buy every company listed on Karachi stock exchange. You do the math. If anyone wants a detailed analysis, ask.

India is eradicating acute poverty at a rate parallel to only China and it is foolish to expect alleviation of poverty by diverting defence funds. One of the major issues in India is ignorance compounded by caste system and superstitions. The GoI has made primary education a fundamental right and is going all out to improve literacy. The amount allocated to schemes like NREGA (Rural employment scheme) has doubled :victory: let alone 34% increase in defence spending.

I am surprised at the concern shown by my Pakistani brothers to the poor in India. Thanks but no thanks.
 
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I am quite happy to admit that India spends a lot of money on its defence in comparison to Pakistan.

Lets put things into perspective here. Why not ?
The wealth of one company (Public , traded on NSE, BSE) in India is good enough to buy every company listed on Karachi stock exchange. You do the math. If anyone wants a detailed analysis, ask.

To put it in perspective, let's do the math by looking at a Times of India report today about increasing poverty in India:

It's a myth that the global financial crisis left India virtually unscathed. In fact, India is the biggest victim of financial crisis-induced poverty, according to data obtained by TOI from the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs' (UNDESA). Check out these figures.

The UNDESA data estimates that the number of India's poor was 33.6 million higher in 2009 than would have been the case if the growth rates of the years from 2004 to 2007 had been maintained. In 2009 alone, an estimated 13.6 million more people in India became poor or remained in poverty than would have been the case at 2008 growth rates.

In other words, while a dip from the 8.8% growth in GDP averaged from 2004-05 to 2006-07 to the 6.7% estimated for 2008-09 may be nothing like the recession faced by the West, its human consequences for India were probably worse. The 2.1% decline in India's GDP growth rate has effectively translated into a 2.8% increase in the incidence of poverty.

According to the UNDESA's World Economic Situation and Prospects 2010, 47 million more people globally became poor or remained in poverty in 2009 than would have been the case at 2008 growth rates, and 84 million more than would have poor at 2004-7 growth rates. Of these, 19 and 40 million respectively are in south Asia.

While the report did not give India-specific figures, these were given to TOI by the UNDESA in response to a request for more information on the numbers pertaining to the country. The numbers come from revised per capita income estimates for 2009. The report uses the World Bank's definition of poverty, which is people living on less than $1.25 per day in 2005 Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) dollars.

The estimates assume that there has been no change in income distribution. If inequality grew in India in 2009, the number of poor would be even higher than these projections.

The UNDESA report attributes this increase in poverty to a combination of reduced household incomes, rising unemployment and pressure on public services. Job losses in India were primarily in export-oriented industries like textiles while employment levels in Indian firms catering to the domestic market were largely unaffected, the report says. Monetary and fiscal policy intervention gave Indian growth some resilience, while safety nets like India's National Rural Employment Guarantee Act (NREGA) helped to mitigate the effects of the slowdown, the report adds.

"Surveys conducted by the labour bureau did show big job losses through most of 2008, but a pick up by mid-2009," said economist and Planning Commission member Abhijit Sen, adding the caveat that the construction industry, which was hit badly by the recession and is now recovering, was not covered by those surveys. "It's true that there has not been anything special for labour in government policy except the general fiscal stimulus," added Sen.

In addition to job losses, food price inflation is a major factor in a decline in poverty reduction in India, said Sen. "It is not yet clear to what extent the spike in food prices is linked to the global financial situation
, the poor monsoon or other factors", he added.

The report is clear that the situation is picking up, but celebrations would be premature -- "global economic recovery is expected to remain sluggish, employment prospects will remain bleak". Job creation will lag output growth and as social protection coverage is limited, working poverty levels will rise and be difficult to reverse, the report warns. It is too early for fiscal stimuli to be withdrawn, the report adds.

No financial crisis impact? India's poor grew by 34 mn - India - The Times of India
 
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Again, there has been no indicators, expert analysis, papers that indicate that India's defense expenditure is the sole reason that India is poor!! I still do not understand why it continues to be supported trying to make irrelevant comparisons between Defense expenditure and poverty (wrt India).

What is indeed "common sense" in most of the arguments is not pointed at all.
Should India sit quiet when many a time there has been threats to it financial growth?
Should India ignore development in its neighborhoods?
Should India forget "Mumbai" and the miserable failures in countering the terrorist act?
Should India as a country not protect its children then?
Should India continue to fly its coffins at the cost of protecting its borders?

Lets not try and be experts and make irrelevant conclusions. India's poverty is miserable, If needed can be discussed in length in a new thread. I hope the MODS will agree with me here!!!!
 
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I'm sort of doubtful that spending less on military in India would help reduce its social problems tremendously.

Many of the problems are not caused by lack of resources, but by Indian social system.

A typical example is perpetual starvation in India. International society is aware that India has the food, but the system prevents the food from reaching the poor and the discriminated.

Another example would be education. Even you give money to the vast poor in villages to educate their kids, the un- or under-educated would still neglect the girls... 50% of the population.

Ridiculous. It has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with corruption.
 
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Again, there has been no indicators, expert analysis, papers that indicate that India's defense expenditure is the sole reason that India is poor!! I still do not understand why it continues to be supported trying to make irrelevant comparisons between Defense expenditure and poverty (wrt India).

I am mystified as to why the fact that India figures among the highest military spenders, and among the worst in terms of human development does not shock you. Do you think that there are no trade offs in terms of budget allocations for military versus human development?

Do you think the funds in Indian treasury are not fungible?

Have you ever heard the term "squeezing the balloon"?

Do you think India's budget deficit of 11% of GDP has nothing to do with huge 34% increase in defense?

Aren't you burdening your poor, malnourished children with increasing debt by being fiscally irresponsible now?
 
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I am mystified as to why the fact that India figures among the highest military spenders, and among the worst in terms of human development does not shock you. Do you think that there are no trade offs in terms of budget allocations for military versus human development?

Do you think the funds in Indian treasury are not fungible?

Have you ever heard the term "squeezing the balloon"?

Do you think India's budget deficit of 11% of GDP has nothing to do with huge 34% increase in defense?

Aren't you burdening your poor, malnourished children with increasing debt by being fiscally irresponsible now?

It's only you who wants to connect the two. If India's reforms are not working in eliminating its poverty, something is wrong with the reforms. What has Defense got to do with it?
Just by throwing figures you cannot prove India's defense expenditure is causing poverty in India.

There are several international critiques who keep a close watch on India's poverty and even they haven't connected dots like the way you are. Can you quote one paper, one recommendation from any source other than a blog that these two are intimately connected when it comes to India?
 
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