Falcon V Fulcrum Turkey Shoot

[SQ8]

is there a rule that indian media is not a credible source!!!!
If yes i can't say anything more.

as far as Indian Air Force stop flying the mig-29 after the crash rates got too high.

As of now, at total of 15 MiG-29s, including at least one twin-seater, have been lost or written off in accidents.

Could such a mishap have been avoided? Most definitely no, especially for aircraft like the IAF’s MiG-29s whose cockpit avionics/instrumentation is not NVG-compatible. Had the IAF’s MiG-29UPGs been flying a similar sortie, then its pilots would have had the benefit of employing helmet-mounted night-vision goggles, which allows for the combination of both a direct visual and an intensified image to be presented to the pilot’s eyes. The two images are combined in a 1:1 relationship and complement each other. The benefits of the system have been extensively proven since the late 1980s in low-level night-attack flying trials, which used a fully integrated NVG-compatible cockpit and forward looking infra-red (FLIR) generated head-up display imagery, together with a head-down multifunction display. The HUD display is seen through a direct visual path, and it is not degraded by unnecessary image intensification as it would be with conventional NVG systems. Additionally, the direct vision path through the optical combiner arrangement makes monitoring of cockpit displays and instruments considerably easier while the ability to scan either side of the combiners enhances peripheral vision and ensures better spatial awareness. The direct vision path also removes problems normally associated with light to dark transitions as the intensified image becomes progressively more noticeable as the direct visual image fades. Such helmet-mounted NVGs are compact and rugged, and the restrictions on head mobility imposed by the depth of conventional NVG systems is avoided. While the system incorporates a single-handed quick-release mechanism for the helmet interface, it can be configured to include an automatic separation system on ejection and designed growth will enable it to accept the latest image intensifier technology as it becomes available. The IAF must therefore ensure that its pilots flying night sorties (using combat aircraft that have NVG-compatible cockpits) over forbidding high-altitude terrain should in future be equipped with at least such helmet-mounted NVGs, or even the new-generation helmet-mounted displays like the ones available from BAE Systems, ELBIT Systems and THALES, which have built-in night-vision sensors and operating modes.

Its a rule to be able to understand what is possible.. and what is fantasy.
A IDF aircraft flying into Pakistani airspace is fantasy.
The PAF accusing the IAF of violating airspace.. and the IAF denying it is documented by newspapers on both sides. which means some incident did occur... whether it was an airspace violation or a close call.. is yet to be seen.

It is obvious that the UPG upgrade may cover up the deficiencies in the existing IAF mig-29 fleet.
But it still does not change existing records and experiences of pilots from multiple AF's who have flown both western and russian types on what is better.
Perhaps if today western pilots take on the Mig-35 they may have a different opinion.
However, when it comes to the mig-29's pre-9-15 .. the opinion is not rosy.

 

[INDTAM]

Its a rule to be able to understand what is possible.. and what is fantasy.
A IDF aircraft flying into Pakistani airspace is fantasy.
The PAF accusing the IAF of violating airspace.. and the IAF denying it is documented by newspapers on both sides. which means some incident did occur... whether it was an airspace violation or a close call.. is yet to be seen.

It is obvious that the UPG upgrade may cover up the deficiencies in the existing IAF mig-29 fleet.
But it still does not change existing records and experiences of pilots from multiple AF's who have flown both western and russian types on what is better.
Perhaps if today western pilots take on the Mig-35 they may have a different opinion.
However, when it comes to the mig-29's pre-9-15 .. the opinion is not rosy.

ok

I questioned the post where you mentioned how it felt to be in both the birds based on your opinion but the discussion took a different turn. anyways i am satisfied with your reply and i agree.

 

[SQ8]

ok

I questioned the post where you mentioned how it felt to be in both the birds based on your opinion but the discussion took a different turn. anyways i am satisfied with your reply and i agree.

And I told you how and why I formed that opinion.. based on the opinion of those who have flown both birds.

 

[Windjammer]

hey IAF denied that allegation.

Instead saw in your news media during mumbai incident that PAF spotted an F16 which was supposed to be of ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!! as INDIA didn have one!!!!!!!!!.

That incident occurred in May 1998, just after Indian and before Pakistani nuclear tests.
Israel did eventually admitted to the presence of it's F-16s in India but claimed to be there for a joint exercise. !!!

 

[John Doe]

No interest in the truth, as always!

Israel admitted to F-16's in India? Any supporting info, may I ask?

On the other hand, please read what RMS Azam had to say about this silly belief:

The PAF had an essential role to play in defending Pakistan's strategic installations and airspace to thwart any such plan. The tensions were so high that a PAF F-16 flying low over the Ras Koh test site in the Chagai District of Balochistan on the eve of the Pakistani nuclear tests was, for a moment, mistaken by the personnel on the ground, to be an Israeli warplane. The incident sparked off a diplomatic squabble between Pakistan and Israel, with the Israeli Ambassador in Washington D.C. denying the existence of any such plan.
Grande Strategy

How is it that you won't change after being caught so often, just in this very thread? Much as I am trying to ignore your lies and stick to meaningful exchanges, I can't help but be shocked at the amount of fibbing you are up to!

 

[SQ8]

Ok folks.. we are going to return back to the topic..
Which was the Fulcrum being thrashed out by the F-16.

 

[John Doe]

OT, the cockpit in the Baaz seems busy, at least to the untrained eye. Sorry about the tiny photo, apparently it is the only one on the internet showing an IAF MiG 29.

This workload may have led to the recent CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain) of the IAF Baaz in the Lahaul Spiti region of Himachal Pradesh last Tuesday.


---------- Post added at 05:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------

And the Helmet Mounted Sight that everyone is mentioning:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Windjammer]

Still feeling giddy after repeated blows from several directions.
The then Pakistani FM Gohar Ayub is on record giving interview to an American news channel, sadly he's gone fishing and not answering his phone so some cheap shot could be put in his place.

 

[fd24]

OT, the cockpit in the Baaz seems busy, at least to the untrained eye. Sorry about the tiny photo, apparently it is the only one on the internet showing an IAF MiG 29.

This workload may have led to the recent CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain) of the IAF Baaz in the Lahaul Spiti region of Himachal Pradesh last Tuesday.


---------- Post added at 05:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------

And the Helmet Mounted Sight that everyone is mentioning:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

lolz thanks john doe.
Helmet looks great. Looks like hes got a cheap web cam on his head and a girdle he has borrowed from madonna.

 

[rockstarIN]

That actually depends on the mode. Let me explain: In the first mode the missile uses its own seeker to track the target throughout the flight. In the second mode the seeker is only switched on in the terminal stage of the chase. Before the terminal stage the missile is provided with input on the target from another source. Now that can either be the shooter's aircraft or more conveniently an AEW&C/AWACS.

My actual point for stating that BVRs are also fire and forget was to imply that the notion of 'fire and forget missiles do not need a radar lock' is wrong.

---------- Post added at 02:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

[/.

Dude 'fire n forget' means, once you fire, no need to help it..

No BVR missile can track targets from its own seekers from the very launch unless it is very close to the target.

---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

lolz thanks john doe.
Helmet looks great. Looks like hes got a cheap web cam on his head and a girdle he has borrowed from madonna.

Russian stuff does not look great like American or EU stuff, but damn effective

 

[krash]

Dude 'fire n forget' means, once you fire, no need to help it..

No BVR missile can track targets from its own seekers from the very launch unless it is very close to the target.

---------- Post added at 04:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------



Russian stuff does not look great like American or EU stuff, but damn effective

I know what fire and forget means mate and let me tell you that its a little more twisted than what you have stated. Further more AIM-120 is officially classified as an F&F system:

"The AIM-120 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile) is a fire-and-forget air-to-air missile, and has replaced the AIM-7 Sparrow as the U.S. military's standard BVR (Beyond Visual Range) intercept missile."

Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAM

Lets not digress the thread further for this issue. Its being discussed at many other places. What my original point was is that AIM-9 too gets a lock on signal on the hud (even if the radar is not being used) of which a picture can be taken.

No interest in the truth, as always!

Israel admitted to F-16's in India? Any supporting info, may I ask?

On the other hand, please read what RMS Azam had to say about this silly belief:

The PAF had an essential role to play in defending Pakistan's strategic installations and airspace to thwart any such plan. The tensions were so high that a PAF F-16 flying low over the Ras Koh test site in the Chagai District of Balochistan on the eve of the Pakistani nuclear tests was, for a moment, mistaken by the personnel on the ground, to be an Israeli warplane. The incident sparked off a diplomatic squabble between Pakistan and Israel, with the Israeli Ambassador in Washington D.C. denying the existence of any such plan.
Grande Strategy

How is it that you won't change after being caught so often, just in this very thread? Much as I am trying to ignore your lies and stick to meaningful exchanges, I can't help but be shocked at the amount of fibbing you are up to!

Actually the incident has allot more in it than that. Firstly the F-16 was detected inside Indian airspace no where near Chagai. Secondly a few days later IDF F-16s were detected else where as well. Some intelligence had already been gathered on the possibility of a strike. A friendly air force contacted PAF and reported the birds, their heading, armament and that they had a tanker with them. This was when the PAF was put on high alert. I remember this as I was woken up by the sirens at my uncles (retd air commodore now, serving then) place in Chaklala AB when all this happened. So if you can take my word this incident has more than what has been told behind it and it definitely has some truth in it as well.

 

[karan.1970]

btw, why are we comparing PAF's front line fighter with India's 2nd line one.. ??

 

[SQ8]

btw, why are we comparing PAF's front line fighter with India's 2nd line one.. ??

We are compared two jets.. whether they sit on the front lines or scratch their nozzles in a junkyard is irrelevant.

 

[karan.1970]

We are compared two jets.. whether they sit on the front lines or scratch their nozzles in a junkyard is irrelevant.

Fair enough.. Just wanted to know if there was a specific reason these 2 were picked up..

 

[deep.ocean]

So guys what is the conclusion?