Faisalabad 'lockdown': Imran to address supporters at Ghanta Ghar Chowk

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Hey Nooni. One day lockdown is nothing compared to billions of dollars of daily corruption happening in Pakistan everyday:

Hey poty boy whats up? How this is relevant to failure of shut down calls in faisalabad?

 

[HughSlaman]

Hey poty boy whats up? How this is relevant to failure of shut down calls in faisalabad?

It would be nice if you could pay attention to the ongoing conversation. Read a few posts back and you can figure out the relevance for yourself.

 

[muslim_pakistani]

Former head of NAB had declared that 12 billion RS of corruption was happening in Pakistan during final years of Zardari regime. Its even worse already under Sharifeen Kingdom
Corruption of upto Rs 12 billion, occurs daily in Pakistan: Chairman NAB | AAJ News

May be this person claims as he thinks every Pakistani is like him so he multiplied his corruption with Pakistani population.

see the date of news and also check this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasih_Bokhari
Controversies[edit]
Main article: Anti-Pakistan
Fasih Bokhari was allegedly involved in different questionable deals, was accused of not proceeding against those submariners who had received kickbacks from Agosta Submarine scandal after becoming chief of naval staff despite knowing all the facts and a case of "Brooks and Garcia Spares Case" allegedly involving Bokhari was heard by Public Accounts Committee few month before his appointment.[14] The parliamentary investigation exposed that Bokhari was one of his close friend retired Commander Naeem Sarfraz and unofficially issued uttered remarks against Pakistan’s historic decision to perform its nuclear deterrence against India in 1998 and is also known for his views against creation of Pakistan.[14]

Senior retired Rear-Admiral Tanveer Ahmad revealed that Fasih Bokhari was not directly involved in Agosta Submarine scandal, he as a submariner let all those submariners who were involved, off the hook, and instead gave them promotions after becoming chief of naval staff; and that he was probably involved in a number of other corrupt dealings[14] He was also the part of the inspection team that gave green signal to Prime minister Benazir Bhutto to close a controversial deal with France for Agosta class submarine which led the dismissal of her government.[14] Geostrategist dr. Shireen Mazari confirmed Bokhari had condemned the decision of nuclear tests and during the IISSconvention in the Gulf, Bokhari maintained that: "Quaid-i-Azam had made a mistake in seeking the creation of Pakistan..".[14]

How much share between Punjab, Sindh, KPK and Baluchistan?
Because now this kingdom is divided between Sharif, IK , Zaradari and all politicians.

 

[Norwegian]

How much share between Punjab, Sindh, KPK and Baluchistan?
Because now this kingdom is divided between Sharif, IK , Zaradari and all politicians.

Why divide? Corruption affects entire economy of Pakistan as our country is STILL using one currency

 

[Chak Bamu]

u r just talking like pervez rashid. Well open up the halqa lets see what happened in last election. it is the only party making hue and cry about election reforms. MQM, PPP and PMLN are cool with the exsisiting system.

Yes like every other politian IK wanted to be in power. But u accuse him of shorts cuts whle supporting every politian which came through short cuts. he is meraly demanding election audit. if u would have given him that there wouldnt have been any agitation. But PMLN knows that election audit will expose them so they dont do it . Then baised people like u blame PTI for demanding rights.

U seem only sane voices supporting PMLN on PDF. But lately u r coming up with very absurd arguments .

Yes he wants to come in power, like every other politian like quaid e azam did , or any other leader for changing Pakistan for good . Not to be ballionair like zardari and nawaz .

1. I talk as I see it, not as how someone else says it. BTW I have respect for anyone who suffered torture during Musharraf regime. It shows that they had some good in them - at least they were not ready to sell themselves like Chaudhries of Gujrat, Sh. Rasheed, & *cough* IK.

2. I see destabilization of democratic rule as next to treason. You don't; hence your parroting of PTI propaganda. Do you even know what half of it means?

3. To catch fish, angler uses bait. To get attention politicians (particularly power-hungry ones) use issues of their interest and present them in moralistic and binary terms - good vs evil, just vs arbitrary, revolution vs status-quo, Islamic vs unIslamic, etc... If IK & PTI had any concern for moral stances they would be concerned with means employed to attempt to gain power. I could describe each of the above binaries and demonstrate how PTI's use of them is seriously flawed. But it would make no difference to you (and other PTI-bots). You just do not care because (you guessed it) "ends justify the means". This is what made me uncomfortable about IK & PTI to begin with, until I clearly saw IK's strategy as pure power politics with a false veneer of morality. You would see it too if you bothered.

4. You are mistaken if you think I support any politician. I support system which is being undermined by IK to satisfy his hunger for power.

5. Nothing is ever certain or unchanging in politics, except certain broad generalizations. All of the reasons being given by PTI anarchists pale in comparison with what is at stake here. The only winner is military establishment in this politics of disruption. Just see how useful idiots were used in Egypt, Thailand, and Syria. But that is too inconvenient, so I know you will not look at the situation in those terms.

6. If somehow PTI manages to disrupt the system. I guarantee that NS will be back whenever he contests another round of elections in Pakistan. Nothing would have been achieved. NS must rule by his mandate and PML-N's politics must be defeated at the ballot box. This is imperative. Pakistan's politics will not progress otherwise. IK's impatience has to do with his obsession with being PM before he goes completely senile.

7. For Pakistan to progress, political institutions must mature and other parties' mandate must be respected. PTI was nonexistent in 133 National Assembly seats. Its propaganda about stolen elections & rigging is quite hollow. It is merely using agitation to improve its stature. But it can not attract voters like this. Only people like yourself are in thrall of personality politics.

8. PML-N is not our future. The obsession with dethroning it is essentially futile. The only explanation for desperation one sees among PTI cadres and its manifestation on the streets is that IK wishes to be PM at any cost. Had he tried to organize and cultivate PTI's talent, he would have done Pakistan a great service.

9. It is my considered opinion that (if Allah so wills) IK will not be PM, ever. All this would prove to be futile. Most PTIans will eventually be disillusioned.

10. Pakistan goes through cycles of confrontational politics and martial laws. 50s was characterized by political instability created by non-uniformed bureaucracy, with politicians being played like cards. 1956 constitution was a phenomenal achievement, but it was undone by Gen. Sikandar Mirza. So tumult in politics of 50s was followed by 13 years of martial law. 70's again were characterized by acerbic and confrontational politics during which somehow we gained 1973 constitution. But 1977 martial law put an end to democracy for 11 years. 90s was again a decade of political instability by the end of which some progress was made, but Musharraf's martial law put an end to it for next 9 years. Now we are again in an era of confrontation. Guess what might come next? Unless one is an idiot, it should not be difficult to guess what may happen. 50s resulted in 60s; 70s resulted in 80s, 90s resulted in '00s. So what does current trajectory point to? IK figures that he would be no worse off if Army steps in. He is a fool if he thinks he can somehow come out on top of the most powerful institution in Pakistan.

Do you now see why I think that the greater issue is political stability and going by a certain code of conduct in politics and keeping Army out of power? Pretensions of Justice, morality, and concern about rigging and family / dynastic rule are just pretensions. They may seem important, but in the grand scheme of things these are unimportant at the level of political evolution one sees in Pakistan. What is absolutely much more important is that we have periodic and timely elections with each cycle leading to improved processes and more mature institutions.

Current issues & personalities are least important for me when I see what is at stake. Sure as hell, I can imagine paid minions starting to make noises that politicians are unfit to rule Pakistan. Just watch. This has happened each and every time in every other decade. It takes about a year to convince / confuse the nation enough for Army to step in. The current crop of politicians, though improving and yet still deficient as they are, would be wasted and something worse come in its place.

I would leave Pakistan if that happens. I would give up on a country where people have not the brains to understand the big game and spend time, effort, & energy in obfuscation rather than conscious effort in improving our system.

Long post, but I wish you would see how I see things. I am no propagandist like @Leader , or @Norwegian , or some other useful idiot. It is not about petty issues, its about power. The one who watches most intently is not on the stage. Do you know who?

 

[Norwegian]

Long post, but I wish you would see how I see things. I am no propagandist like @Leader , or @Norwegian , or some other useful idiot.

Keep me out of this

 

[Chak Bamu]

Keep me out of this

You are always 'out of this' as far as I am concerned. You are just a typical bot. Why would I concern myself with you, except perhaps to point out as a typical propaganda bot?

 

[I FLY HIGH]

pti baisharam hai , 15 to 20 thousand votes liyaya hain Fsd ke halqay main and they say rigging ho gae hai.

 

[A.M.]

7. For Pakistan to progress, political institutions must mature and other parties' mandate must be respected. PTI was nonexistent in 133 National Assembly seats. Its propaganda about stolen elections & rigging is quite hollow. It is merely using agitation to improve its stature. But it can not attract voters like this. Only people like yourself are in thrall of personality politics.

QFT

 

[Norwegian]

You are always 'out of this' as far as I am concerned. You are just a typical bot. Why would I concern myself with you, except perhaps to point out as a typical propaganda bot?

If I am a BOT, then you gotta "prove" it

 

[HughSlaman]

1. I talk as I see it, not as how someone else says it. BTW I have respect for anyone who suffered torture during Musharraf regime. It shows that they had some good in them - at least they were not ready to sell themselves like Chaudhries of Gujrat, Sh. Rasheed, & *cough* IK.

2. I see destabilization of democratic rule as next to treason.
<snip>

I really liked this last statement, so I wanted to comment on it!

Now, here is the point I want to make: what could be more destabilizing to democratic rule than a party holding onto power on the basis of electoral fraud?

Nobody in Pakistan denies lots of rigging took place. The ECP is clearly not a competent or trustworthy body. So it is imperative that we Pakistanis insist on investigations of the elections, so that nobody holds a mandate on the basis of rigged votes. Only then can we confidently say we even have democratic rule, as opposed to a pretense of democratic rule which masks fraud and intimidation.

Imran Khan's request is fair and very reasonable, and he has the support of millions; it should not be rejected on the basis of prejudiced, hateful speculation about his motives.

 

[Norwegian]

Now, here is the point I want to make: what could be more destabilizing to democratic rule than a party holding onto power on the basis of electoral fraud?

It is something VERY difficult to explain to a typical Pakistani mindset that has accepted rigging and electoral fraud systematically since 1977!

 

[HughSlaman]

It is something VERY difficult to explain to a typical Pakistani mindset that has accepted rigging and electoral fraud systematically since 1977!

I know! These guys think it is one of the rules of the game that people can rig elections!

Speaking of 1971, there is some reason to think that Shaykh Mujib ur Rahman won a huge majority in East Pakistan precisely because of rigged elections and other forms of malpractice. If not for that, we might not have lost half our country!

 

[Norwegian]

Speaking of 1971, there is some reason to think that Shaykh Mujib ur Rahman won a huge majority in East Pakistan precisely because of rigged elections and other forms of malpractice. If not for that, we might not have lost half our country!

BS. Check this out:
Pakistani general election, 1970 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East Pakistanis didn't vote back then in a referendum for succession into two separate states. Rather they were demanding equal rights as West Pakistanis. Instead their most popular leader was jailed

 

[HughSlaman]

BS. Check this out:
Pakistani general election, 1970 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East Pakistanis didn't vote back then in a referendum for succession into two separate states. Rather they were demanding equal rights as West Pakistanis. Instead their most popular leader was jailed

Oh, come on. Wikipedia said it so it's true?

I have recently been reading "The 1971 Indo-Pak War" by Major General Hakeem Arshad Qureshi. He was stationed in East Pakistan before the war broke out, and describes in detail how people knew rigging was going on, yet they turned a blind eye. One of the most popular leaders in East Pakistan, a major rival of Shaykh Mujib ur Rahman, was intimidated and his followers thrown in jail.

My point is that it was the dispute between Shaykh Mujib ur Rahman and Bhutto that eventually led to the split. It's quite likely the former won through rigging. This is one example to show the serious consequences of allowing rigging.