F-60 / J-31 stealth fighter aircraft for Pakistan Air Force?

[That Guy]

Financial constraints on jf17 stopped third squadron.

These are very modest costs and a fraction of Wat a potential fc20 may cost.

I Dred to think Wat a j31 may cost.

It's only a delay, not a stop. It's expected to roll out by the beginning of next year, but I can't really guarantee this simply because I have no hard evidence.

Again, only 36 FC-20s are expected to be purchased in the short term and a potential 5th gen isn't expected until at least 2017-2020.

 

[Storm Force]

That guy.

The j31 exists in two or three prototypes. There have been less than fifty flights its powered by a temporary Russian engine.

First flight was in 2012

Even plaaf have estimated that j31 wil not achieve foc for a decade and first regimnts formed post 2020.

At this stage both j20 and fgfa are at least five years further in development cycle. Yet India a full partner in fgfa wil not get their first plane til 2020.


How the hell h ave you concluded that paf wil get a j31 before both China and India is ridiculous.

You are not a stake holder you can't afford fourth gen j10 even in small nos. Yet you claim post 2017 paf may get fifth gen fighter.

Absolutely impossible for paf financially and development wise.

Try 2027 as a more realistic time frame

Even India with ten times your budget and a fully fledged partner won't get fgfa until 2020

 

[S10]

Problem at this point with the J-31 is that it will be forced to stick with RD-33 engines for the time being, as China has yet to develop the next generation medium thrust engine in the league of EJ-200 or F414. That means the Russians will have a voice in the matter of export, and the plane cannot reach its full potential with RD-33.

 

[flyingslayer]

In my opinion,the J-20 is not the most fitable one for Pakistan Air Force in future.First ,as a long-range two engine heavy jet,J-20 is beyond of Pakistan's defence demand.Second,J-20 will firstly satisfy PLAF's demand---PLAF propobaly needs 200-300 J-20 jets.Third,purchasing J-20 is out of pakistan's financial bear abality.
But J-31 may be the not bad choice for Pakistan Air Force in 15-20 years' future,personally thinking ,of course.

 

[That Guy]

That guy.

The j31 exists in two or three prototypes. There have been less than fifty flights its powered by a temporary Russian engine.

First flight was in 2012

Even plaaf have estimated that j31 wil not achieve foc for a decade and first regimnts formed post 2020.

At this stage both j20 and fgfa are at least five years further in development cycle. Yet India a full partner in fgfa wil not get their first plane til 2020.


How the hell h ave you concluded that paf wil get a j31 before both China and India is ridiculous.

You are not a stake holder you can't afford fourth gen j10 even in small nos. Yet you claim post 2017 paf may get fifth gen fighter.

Absolutely impossible for paf financially and development wise.

Try 2027 as a more realistic time frame

Even India with ten times your budget and a fully fledged partner won't get fgfa until 2020

I'm pretty sure we've discussed this already. Why is it that we have to keep going around in circles? Why do I have to continue explaining this to you?

 

[Quwa]

Although J-31 looks promising, I still think there's a void that needs to be fulfilled in the single-engine market. I can't help but shake the feeling that the J-31 will end up being too expensive to buy in large numbers (for most prospective customers). If only Pakistan had the resources, but I'd put it towards designing such a fighter with China's help. Imagine, an under $40mn single engine stealth fighter.

 

[fatman17]

PRC’s Avic Plans To Expand Export Markets

AIN Defense Perspective » October 11, 2013 by Reuben Johnson


Avic displayed this model of its Advanced Fighter Concept at Aviation Expo China last month. It closely resembles Shenyang’s J-31. (Photo: Reuben F. Johnson)October 11, 2013, 12:05 PM

The People’s Republic of China’s (PRC) state-owned and -operated Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic) presented a full line of its products and plans for further expansion of its export markets at last month’s Aviation Expo China exhibition, which was held in the Chinese capital, Beijing. The centerpiece of the Avic display was a line-up of models of those military aircraft programs that the conglomerate has been permitted to make public.

The most conspicuous of them was a smaller-scale version of a twin-engine, stealthy-looking design that Avic has dubbed the “Advanced Fighter Concept” or AFC, but which appears to be the fighter that has been variously labeled J-31, Project 310, Falcon Hawk and F-60. It is produced at the Shenyang Aircraft Works in Liaoning Province. During the expo one of the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA) official commentators, Admiral Zhang Zhaozhong, told the state-run People’s Daily newspaper that the J-31 was never built with China’s military in mind, and it was not likely that it would be built in a carrier-capable variant.

The goal of the program is to compete in the export market against the U.S.-built Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). Aircraft design analysts familiar with the Chinese program state that both aircraft are designed to use materials and shapes that would give the aircraft a low radar cross section (RCS), and that both feature the same type of inlet design that precludes the use of a boundary layer diverter.

Conspicuous by its absence was the other stealthy combat aircraft program being flight-tested in the PRC, the Chengdu J-20. No mention has been made of the program in any official marketing materials or exhibition placards, and specialists from Chengdu Aerospace and Aircraft Plant No. 132 will not even confirm the existence of the project.

As one western diplomat based in Beijing pointed out, “The Chinese continue this same game of having one program for PLA use only that is cloaked in endless layers of secrecy, and then having a second program that is strictly for export. The pattern has basically been set with the [Chengdu] J-10, which is just for the PLA, and the JF-17/FC-1 program for Pakistan. The aim here is to continue on the same path now with a pair of next-generation fighter aircraft.”

Like the programs that preceded them, both the J-20 and J-31 seem to be at least initially dependent upon Russian-made jet engines. The PLAAF has reportedly been interested in purchasing the Saturn 117S engine that powers the Sukhoi Su-35 and T-50/PAK-FA fighters for the J-20, while the J-31 has flown initially with a set of the Klimov RD93 engines used in the JF-17.

 

[Mugwop]

This can make CAC upset with PAF. I'd say go for j-10B which is much affordable. who wants to wait till 2020 for J-31.

 

[abhinavdutta]

Pakistan has a lot ambitions whose graphs are pretty steep. They supposedly have a nuclear submarine project,icbm project and even plans to accquire an aircraft carrier. J31 in todays money is going to cost no less than a 100 million US dollars. If the timeframe the pakistan folks are talking about is 2020..... Then its utterly impossible. Pakistan simply doesn't have the funds required to house all these ambitions. To design and bild a 5th gen takes 15 yrs of R&D and manufacturing. China has a good ten years for induction....export orders will take more time. And looking at the current financial sitiation of pakistan none of their high flying ambitions will materialize.

Pakistan need to stop comparing themselves with their neighbours and sart building an effective financial trade to improve their financial situation at then further invest in such endeavours.

 

[ARSENAL6]

^ Jealousy at its best

 

[airomerix]

Pakistan has a lot ambitions whose graphs are pretty steep. They supposedly have a nuclear submarine project,icbm project and even plans to accquire an aircraft carrier. J31 in todays money is going to cost no less than a 100 million US dollars. If the timeframe the pakistan folks are talking about is 2020..... Then its utterly impossible. Pakistan simply doesn't have the funds required to house all these ambitions. To design and bild a 5th gen takes 15 yrs of R&D and manufacturing. China has a good ten years for induction....export orders will take more time. And looking at the current financial sitiation of pakistan none of their high flying ambitions will materialize.

Pakistan need to stop comparing themselves with their neighbours and sart building an effective financial trade to improve their financial situation at then further invest in such endeavours.

Ofcourse you would know.

Tejas, Arjun and what not. Experience in faliures is what DODO and India can gripe about.

Tell us more about what it takes to execute a project? Before that let us give you all a standing ovation on the sucessful integration of MMRCA in your front line squadrons. Period.

 

[abhinavdutta]

There absolutely nothing to be jealous of.

 

[abhinavdutta]

Ofcourse you would know.

Tejas, Arjun and what not. Experience in faliures is what DODO and India can gripe about.

Tell us more about what it takes to execute a project? Before that let us give you all a standing ovation on the sucessful integration of MMRCA in your front line squadrons. Period.

Another glorified pakistani who can't take the simple truth.

See maybe all these projects are failures all of them being india's first attempt at it making it on on its own. We havnt co developed anything with anyone. Besides there are "failures" we can afford . Your country is asking for a USD 5 billion bailout for the entire country. That's less than half of what our mmrca project costs ( you brought it up).
And dumbnut integration of the mmrca comes after signing it. We havnt signed it yet . The winner has been announced.

Worlds best fighter manufacturing company lockheed martin's project timeline -
F-22 Raptor - 1984 to 2005 (series production) - 21 years
F-35 JSF. - 1992 to 2015 (series production) - 13 years or even more.
Tejas - 1984 to 2013.
This being HAL/ADA first project has taken 29 years of planning, design and prototyping and now tests. So considering the f-22 taking 22 we are doing good with our first prject.

The day you guys stop blowing yourselves up and work on something on your own and not use somebodt else's leftovers or selling your ports to another nation you will probbaly go through the same issues evryone goes through.

And besides I wonder why china themselves have only four JF-17's considering that its so good
Go cry to your momma .... Oops you have three!

 

[Tacticool]

Another glorified pakistani who can't take the simple truth.

See maybe all these projects are failures all of them being india's first attempt at it making it on on its own. We havnt co developed anything with anyone. Besides there are "failures" we can afford . Your country is asking for a USD 5 billion bailout for the entire country. That's less than half of what our mmrca project costs ( you brought it up).
And dumbnut integration of the mmrca comes after signing it. We havnt signed it yet . The winner has been announced.

Worlds best fighter manufacturing company lockheed martin's project timeline -
F-22 Raptor - 1984 to 2005 (series production) - 21 years
F-35 JSF. - 1992 to 2015 (series production) - 13 years or even more.
Tejas - 1984 to 2013.
This being HAL/ADA first project has taken 29 years of planning, design and prototyping and now tests. So considering the f-22 taking 22 we are doing good with our first prject.

The day you guys stop blowing yourselves up and work on something on your own and not use somebodt else's leftovers or selling your ports to another nation you will probbaly go through the same issues evryone goes through.

And besides I wonder why china themselves have only four JF-17's considering that its so good
Go cry to your momma .... Oops you have three!

How the hell are you comparing a fifth gen advanced research and development project with 3rd gen junk.
F-22 took 21 years because it introduces a new gen. super cruise, super maneuverability, excellent radar, world class avionics suite and much much more. That 3rd gen junk which still don't pass basic maneuvering. And you're proud of 29 years of waste.

 

[Viper0011.]

Worlds best fighter manufacturing company lockheed martin's project timeline -
F-22 Raptor - 1984 to 2005 (series production) - 21 years
F-35 JSF. - 1992 to 2015 (series production) - 13 years or even more.
Tejas - 1984 to 2013.
This being HAL/ADA first project has taken 29 years of planning, design and prototyping and now tests. So considering the f-22 taking 22 we are doing good with our first prject.

Blind patriotism fueled by sheer lack of common sense and idiotic ideas would produce your post.

Man, did you just try to compare the F-22 and the F-35 with your little Tejas? (which is a Mirage 2000 derivative and has a LOT of Western input. Mind you the technology existed since 1970's when Mirage 2000 was being tested).
Comparing the existing 70's technology (with modifiations of course but majority of the stuff doesn't change, just the computer systems and applications / avoinics are more powerful), with F-22 and JSF is crazy. The later were produced recently and they have NOTHING in common with Tejas. In fact from what I've understood and gathered, the -22 and -35 don't have a lot of stuff in common either. They are designed for different roles, albeit Stealthy ones. The F-22 is a world within itself and creates the HI of the USAF. The -35 creates the Mid and the Low of the USAF, USN, the Marines, etc, etc. But BOTH are about a few decades ahead of the best of the best the rest of the world's produced. Definitely nothing comparing to the Tejas!!!! even just the timeframe of development or induction!