F-35’s can knock down whole PAF & IAF: Pervez Hoodboy

[CodeforFood]

Fair enough but we all know and if we don't we should that what he said in this article is not controversial. People here are talking as if we could take on the US. The vast majority of the F-35s capabilities aren't even known. This, like I said before, doesn't mean our forces are incompetent or weak...but for people to be saying that the F-35 is a bad jet or the F-16 could somehow take it on its laughable. Between the standoff capabilities, the connected war platform, the severely reduced radar signature and the very formidable training of its pilots...US flown F35s would be insurmountable against our air force and most certainly the indian air force. Would a couple get shot down? Maybe...but likely our entire fleet would be out of commission or staying out of the fight.

Again this isn't to denigrate our forces. We aren't fighting the US. Our enemy is the loud hideous uncircumcised lot next door.



Im pretty sure Hoodhboy has done more for Pakistan and its people than you or I have. I can tell you that I know of two PhD graduates from MIT who were accepted on full scholarships from Pakistan bc of his recommendation. One is now at Argonne National Labs and the other is working for Strategic Plans in Pakistan. Both from middle class background...one's father was a teacher and the other is the son of a police officer.

Just bc we don't agree with his social positions doesn't mean we shouldn't respect our fellow Pakistanis and also we should always be willing to hear a differing view.

I agree. I also said that earlier. F35 is one of the best if not the best available right now considering what it brings along with it when it comes to an engagement. On its own it may have some flaws, but none of asian countries have the capabilities to take any advantage of it.

 

[SilverKnights]

Can somebody tell this idiot Hoodbhoy that war fight with Jazba and Aiman not with F35 or F16 or whatever.
So at the end of the day its passion, love to your country and how you rate your independence.

 

[waqasmwi]

The same thing Israel was smoking when Syrian S-200s managed to track one of their F-35s and opened fire on it. The aircraft was taken out of service for a bit, but luckily for Israel, they managed to deploy countermeasures in time to prevent the aircraft from actually getting downed.



Except he does.



They've sometimes been beaten in training exercises by Eurofighter Typhoons and even F-16s.

The F-35 is no F-22, it is FAR less capable than that monster.



A real life scenario already happened, Syrian S-200s tracked an F-35 and opened fire on it. If those antiquated systems can do it, what do you think something more advanced like the HQ-16 could do?

Even Serbia managed to used their old Soviet radars to track stealth aircraft, and they took two of them out of service.

"Angoor Khaty Hain"

Read the last part of my post, in most real war scenarios they will have to get close at some point, since BVRs aren’t 100% kill and launching one will alert the pilot. Even an F-22 pilot will have shiver run down its spine at least once knowing its up against F-16.

You are right. F-16 is the best because Pakistan have it. F-35 isn't that good because Pakistan can't have it. I have to say it once again, "Angoor Khaty Hain"

 

[MIG21DOWN]

If U.S.A want they can turn afganistan into dust within one 1 hour. While Afganistan themsemseves choose to live stone age & simple life anyway,
U.S.A is a super power. If they strike afganistan , angels not going to come help. It's afghanis themselves choose to live in dust age, they themselves don't want any advancement.

I wonder why -- after the US debacle in Afghanistan -- did all the world's militaries not reformed themselves after the Taliban. After all, if the Taliban supposedly 'defeated' the US, surely that style of military is clearly 'proved' to be superior, right?

So when will you advocate the Pakistan military to get rid of ships, tanks, aircrafts, and uniforms?

People like you are cowards who think that only best technology wins. If the vietnamese listened to you in the vietnam war they would have lost their country, if Hezbollah listened to you in 2006 they would have no defeated Israel, If Taliban listened to you they would not have fought a 19 year war and bought the United States military to the negotitation table right after destroying the Soviets who you would have said they cant defeat either. You guys would have said Pakistan cant stand up to India it shouldnt fight back on February 26th. If everyone had the same defeatist attitude as liberals like you (@Peaceful Civilian) than no one would resist bigger armies. Not everyone is a coward like you who worship the american military. You would have said that the Muslims are dumb for fighting the Crusaders since they are smaller. You would have called them dumb for trying to take Jerusalam. U would have called Prophet Muhammad (saw) an idiot for trying to fight the quraish tribe in the Battle of Badr because they are the much smaller force. You would support the quraish because you are a coward who can never think of fighting the bigger enemy.

Nato forces are cowards they are tough when hiding in multi million dollar armored vehicles scared of people in sandals when on patrol. They fire bombs on weddings from the air cause they are too cowardly too fight man to man.

Real courage is when u fight against the odds against superior imperialistic forces not when u fight with superior technology.

 

[gambit]

People like you are cowards who think that only best technology wins.

Technology helps -- greatly. As for me being a 'coward', am a USAF veteran, F-111 (Cold War) and F-16 (Desert Storm). At least I served my country, how about you?

If the vietnamese listened to you in the vietnam war they would have lost their country,...

Actually, this reveals your ignorance of the role of technology in the Vietnam War -- on both sides. If the North Vietnamese did not receive technology training and even assistance from the Soviet Union and China, North Viet Nam would have lost badly and Viet Nam would be democratic today. You do not know what you are talking about.

if Hezbollah listened to you in 2006 they would have no defeated Israel,...

Hezbollah did not 'defeat' Israel.

If Taliban listened to you they would not have fought a 19 year war and bought the United States military to the negotitation table right after destroying the Soviets who you would have said they cant defeat either.

We defeated the Taliban with technology. They scattered like roaches in front of our path.

 

[Shah_G]

"Angoor Khaty Hain"


You are right. F-16 is the best because Pakistan have it. F-35 isn't that good because Pakistan can't have it. I have to say it once again, "Angoor Khaty Hain"

Oh bahi read my responses from earlier posts before you jump to conclusion with all the info provided to back my point. Angoor Khaty Haiinnnn... stop with the assumptions and don’t try to make sound like what you said above. USAF can battle rest of the world combine if it comes down to it. Why? Because technology gives em edge and pilots receive superior training. Now give USAF tech into the hands of Indians i wouldn’t say the same.

I still stand by my point that F-35 is not a superiority fighter like F-22R and stealth and BVRs are overrated. It does give an edge to a pilot to have stealth and tech but at the end of the day it’s the pilot training and survival skills. If anything F-22s can wipe out PAF alone. F-35 Is not built for dogfight rather it’s a fighter for ground attack. F-16s have taken out F-35s during exercises and it’s been documented koi hawa mein nahi choor rah. Hope you get it!

 

[gambit]

...my point that F-35 is not a superiority fighter like F-22R...

The F-35's opponent in a war is not going to be the F-22. The F-35 compares to the current generation of fighters is like comparing the F-4 against front line WW II fighters. You may not like that generational gap, but based upon pilots' testimonies, the analogy is appropriate.

...and stealth and BVRs are overrated.

And you are wrong. I know what a clean config F-16 against the surface water of the Gulf of Mexico looks like on a radar scope -- difficult. Being low radar observable is not overrated. And if you think BVR is overrated, try telling that to an army sniper.

...but at the end of the day it’s the pilot training and survival skills.

Not if he cannot see his F-22 or F-35 opponent.

 

[Shah_G]

The F-35's opponent in a war is not going to be the F-22. The F-35 compares to the current generation of fighters is like comparing the F-4 against front line WW II fighters. You may not like that generational gap, but based upon pilots' testimonies, the analogy is appropriate.


And you are wrong. I know what a clean config F-16 against the surface water of the Gulf of Mexico looks like on a radar scope -- difficult. Being low radar observable is not overrated. And if you think BVR is overrated, try telling that to an army sniper.


Not if he cannot see his F-22 or F-35 opponent.

You’ve served in gulf war right so why don’t you give me BVRs kill USAF scored during Gulf war engagements? How many BVRs were shot with hitting its target? With what I know BVRs contributed to nothing.

If anything F-35 can be compared to F-4 phantom in a sense with load shit of money down the drain on a fail project with high expectations and expected results not achieved. Instead of wasting money on this bull crap USAF could’ve gone for couple of more F-22R which is promising further strengthening the force.

 

[YeBeWarned]

People like you are cowards who think that only best technology wins. If the vietnamese listened to you in the vietnam war they would have lost their country, if Hezbollah listened to you in 2006 they would have no defeated Israel, If Taliban listened to you they would not have fought a 19 year war and bought the United States military to the negotitation table right after destroying the Soviets who you would have said they cant defeat either. You guys would have said Pakistan cant stand up to India it shouldnt fight back on February 26th. If everyone had the same defeatist attitude as liberals like you (@Peaceful Civilian) than no one would resist bigger armies. Not everyone is a coward like you who worship the american military. You would have said that the Muslims are dumb for fighting the Crusaders since they are smaller. You would have called them dumb for trying to take Jerusalam. U would have called Prophet Muhammad (saw) an idiot for trying to fight the quraish tribe in the Battle of Badr because they are the much smaller force. You would support the quraish because you are a coward who can never think of fighting the bigger enemy.

Nato forces are cowards they are tough when hiding in multi million dollar armored vehicles scared of people in sandals when on patrol. They fire bombs on weddings from the air cause they are too cowardly too fight man to man.

Real courage is when u fight against the odds against superior imperialistic forces not when u fight with superior technology.

come on dude, @gambit is very knowledgeable person when it comes to aviation even if you disagree show some respect .

 

[gambit]

You’ve served in gulf war right so why don’t you give me BVRs kill USAF scored during Gulf war engagements? How many BVRs were shot with hitting its target? With what I know BVRs contributed to nothing.

Sure...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_War

In what is considered a textbook "beyond visual range" or BVR kill, four MiG-23s took off from an Iraqi airbase. One of them turned back with mechanical problems, however the other three pressed on. Four F-15Cs were flying when AWACS reported the MiGs. The four F-15s lined up, were assigned targets and fired AIM-7 missiles at all of them, destroying all three MiGs within seconds of each other.

A MIG-25 launched an R-40 and killed an F-18.

If anything F-35 can be compared to F-4 phantom in a sense with load shit of money down the drain on a fail project with high expectations and expected results not achieved. Instead of wasting money on this bull crap USAF could’ve gone for couple of more F-22R which is promising further strengthening the force.

The F-35 is a 'failed' project?

The F-35 is a national project, so this criticism is coming from a Pakistani whose country just managed to produce, in collaboration with another country, a fighter that is comparable to the American F-16, while the F-35 is rolling out across the world.

You do not know what you are talking about. Just stop it already...

come on dude, @gambit is very knowledgeable person when it comes to aviation even if you disagree show some respect .

No offense to you personally, but am not here for 'respect' from anyone. Am here to represent the US and to challenge absurd claims and assorted nonsense.

 

[YeBeWarned]

No offense to you personally, but am not here for 'respect' from anyone. Am here to represent the US and to challenge absurd claims and assorted nonsense.

None taken but i wasn't asking him to respect you as person but the knowledge you have about Aviation and related technology .

 

[Shah_G]

Sure...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_engagements_of_the_Gulf_War

A MIG-25 launched an R-40 and killed an F-18.


The F-35 is a 'failed' project?

The F-35 is a national project, so this criticism is coming from a Pakistani whose country just managed to produce, in collaboration with another country, a fighter that is comparable to the American F-16, while the F-35 is rolling out across the world.

You do not know what you are talking about. Just stop it already...


No offense to you personally, but am not here for 'respect' from anyone. Am here to represent the US and to challenge absurd claims and assorted nonsense.

Where I’m from got nun to do with what we are discussing here and for your information I’m a Brooklyn born and raised Pakistani. So I represent both countries.
Back to the the topic.. with data collected from USAF and the apartheid state AKA IAF together shows that from Vietnam war upto 2005 632 BVRs were fired and only four resulted in Kills. During same period 528 air to air kills were made at closer range 144 with guns and 384 with missiles fired at opponents within visual range debunking your claim. Now that’s about 1% success rate of BVRs.

 

[Asian.Century]

In other words PAF total fighters and radars are completely useless when it comes to fighting off stealth, detecting and shooting down long range stealth fighters like F-35, F-22 etc.

 

[gambit]

Back to the the topic.. with data collected from USAF and the apartheid state AKA IAF together shows that from Vietnam war upto 2005 632 BVRs were fired and only four resulted in Kills. During same period 528 air to air kills were made at closer range 144 with guns and 384 with missiles fired at opponents within visual range debunking your claim. Now that’s about 1% success rate of BVRs.

Am sure plenty of air forces around the world are watching your 'analyses' of BVR missile effectiveness with wonder, soon enough, they will scrap their inventories of BVR air-air missiles and discard their air combat doctrines to reflect your view. Congratulations. I hope the Pakistan Air Force takes your 'advice'.

 

[Shah_G]

Am sure plenty of air forces around the world are watching your 'analyses' of BVR missile effectiveness with wonder, soon enough, they will scrap their inventories of BVR air-air missiles and discard their air combat doctrines to reflect your view. Congratulations. I hope the Pakistan Air Force takes your 'advice'.

Well it’s data collected by USAF which is available online. Check out link below.
http://pogoarchives.org/labyrinth/09/06.pdf
And I hope they do.