F-35 Nearly Six Years Away, Pakistan Buys F-16s

[KingOfGods]

PAF current needs will change when PAK-FA is inducted by IAF, which
is a matter of fact.

PAF will actively seek a fifth gen, its in Pakistans nature and interests, allways has been.

Guys here saying its too expensive....How much will 2 billion get you? About 8 JSF....so thats 8 fighters with 8 nukes loaded to knock out 8 Indian cities....I can only name about 5 big indian cities...Excuse the scenario, but the idea is to maintain a minimum deterance, always has been Pakistans philosophy, even with just 8 or even 4 JSF, India would be jittery. You don't need to spend 10 billion to achieve minimum deterance.

Wow.......you are the greatest planner of this world. Do you have any idea what can be the consequences of using even a single nuke. Even USA can't afford using them again. Otherwise, they did use them in Vietnam. Rather than using nuke, they accepted their defeat. Same was the case with USSR in Afganistan. So being civilian, we should not even think about it.

And even if you want to deliver nuke to Indian cities, you don't need F-35. Pakistan have many missiles capable for this task. But I believe most of Pakistani are wise enough not to think about it.

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

I do agree though to an extent, PAF should have been a part of the JSF program. WTF ? WoT is not over and many basics are lacking. We had the few hundred million needed to be security partners.

Hoping to get a response from some Americans preferably

 

[Luftwaffe]

For God sake people.
F-35 is far away for PAF perhaps in next 15 years and only possibility as we are the prospect customer of Lockheed Martin.

No F-35 for India, was offered but most likely plans flipped, you know why? US does not want pak-fa to come out soon and loaded with similar F-35 technologies that could have been be proliferated by india and indeed india will. It is evident that india purchased with their own set of rules. Now getover it no F-35 for india not till 2026 Year. (don't troll after my post write me books I am firm on my statements.)

 

[Devianz]

Now getover it no F-35 for india not till 2026 Year. (don't troll after my post write me books I am firm on my statements.)

You are right... We won't be getting any F-35s(if we ever order some) till 2025 at least. But the reasons provided by you are rubbish. USA is already providing us with top of the line platforms like P-8I and C-17. Now Russia or no other country has anything near as good as P-8s. If US was worried about proliferation of technology to Russia, do you think that they would sell anything that could put their own submarine fleet in danger?

 

[muse]

Going through this thread and I am suprised that no one has even asked WHY the F35 should even be considered by PAF - to which problem is it a solution?


Specific technologies I can understand the PAF expressing an interest in, but the system, I just don't see how it makes any sense.

 

[Tshering22]

I think Pakistan might get JSF but in the future. We're not interested in it both Navy and IAF as we're booked with other models of stealth aircraft either ways.

But it will take a long time for the main customers of JSF to first get their share of fighters. And do expect opposition from Israel, who's one of the main customer. The blk52 F-16s that you got now is something you paid for ages ago so now you're getting it. I don't think PAF would want to put the same situation again now with another American fighter.

The JSF program is bloody costly and unit costs would be really high if you're planning to get them in small numbers.

 

[Jigs]

Costly if you just order smaller numbers and without co-work so your right. If you also make parts for them the cost goes down. I think we are at 11-12 billion for our 116 F-35A models. Give or take that is 100 million per F-35A. For what your getting that isn't bad at all. Plus cost will go down as production ramps up. Rafale and Eurofighters are what around the 80 million range and those lack the level of stealth the F-35 has. Sure they have great performance numbers but the times are changing with High-Off-Boresight capability together with JHMCS. Throw in F-35 Stealth,AESA,DAS and you quickly lose the need to dogfight with 4/4.5 gen aircraft so performance characteristics are negated even more.

 

[Quwa]

This depends on relations with the U.S. & financial situation of the country...but a few things to consider:

1. There is NO doubt that PAF will work with China (or someone) to develop & produce its own 5th generation fighter. But this may not reach fruition (i.e. induction) until 2030 or even 2035+ when it can begin phasing out older JF-17.

2. However, IAF will acquire 5th generation capability a little sooner (2020s), and PAF's F-16A/Bs from the 1980s will age significantly by the 2020s. They will need replacing...

3. F-35 was geared for export, get over it! Technology of its nature will become widespread enough for Pakistan to acquire it anyways (from China), so why not make a couple billion dollars now for their upcoming requirements?

Conclusion...we're in scope to potentially see PAF order 2~3 squadrons of F-35 Lightening II to begin replacing F-16A/Bs in the mid or late 2020s. Then in the 2030s or so, an indigenously produced 5th generation fighter can begin supplanting it by replacing Block-I JF-17s.

 

[Donatello]

This depends on relations with the U.S. & financial situation of the country...but a few things to consider:

1. There is NO doubt that PAF will work with China (or someone) to develop & produce its own 5th generation fighter. But this may not reach fruition (i.e. induction) until 2030 or even 2035+ when it can begin phasing out older JF-17.

2. However, IAF will acquire 5th generation capability a little sooner (2020s), and PAF's F-16A/Bs from the 1980s will age significantly by the 2020s. They will need replacing...

3. F-35 was geared for export, get over it! Technology of its nature will become widespread enough for Pakistan to acquire it anyways (from China), so why not make a couple billion dollars now for their upcoming requirements?

Conclusion...we're in scope to potentially see PAF order 2~3 squadrons of F-35 Lightening II to begin replacing F-16A/Bs in the mid or late 2020s. Then in the 2030s or so, an indigenously produced 5th generation fighter can begin supplanting it by replacing Block-I JF-17s.

I assume this is same old India getting F-35 so IAF best type of thread.
The first models are not even going to be ready until 2015. India gets them so what? Like Can India do anything against Pakistan without inviting retaliation? Maybe Indians should revisit the Mumbai aftermath and did the Indian threats really work?


Lastly, Pakistan is better off contributing to China's 4th gen planes (5th gen worldwide) and get those in the 2020s.....

 

[somebozo]

and with a democratic & competent government in Islamabad.

When you have an author making statements like these, then he is not in touch with reality even remotely and deserves to be clubbed from his job.

 

[SBD-3]

You are right... We won't be getting any F-35s(if we ever order some) till 2025 at least. But the reasons provided by you are rubbish. USA is already providing us with top of the line platforms like P-8I and C-17. Now Russia or no other country has anything near as good as P-8s. If US was worried about proliferation of technology to Russia, do you think that they would sell anything that could put their own submarine fleet in danger?

hay hay hay.......keep in mind that they are not offensive platforms.....yanks wont have any hesitations in providing you with fancy avionics and support stuff........what they wont give you is their critical techs....like stealth and their most advanced weapons system....USAF didn't give desert falcons to UAEAF with a smiling face as UAE demanded advanced weapons integration on therm....F-22 Ex.....lol you've seen it.....JSF, well you know what partner countries will get JSF that is within the limits of exportable stealth platform....so if you get C-17 or P-8I's.....they wont care cuz they have pretty good standard AD missiles lined up against them..

 

[Quwa]

I assume this is same old India getting F-35 so IAF best type of thread.
The first models are not even going to be ready until 2015. India gets them so what? Like Can India do anything against Pakistan without inviting retaliation? Maybe Indians should revisit the Mumbai aftermath and did the Indian threats really work?

My post had nothing to do with any of that...but I can wager the IAF will begin to receive its first 5th generation fighters (PAK-FA) around 2020~2025...even for developmental testing if need be. Realistically that is a full 15 years from now and it may not take that long. Around that time, it would be imperative for PAF to begin introducing this capability, and investment in a light/medium weight Chinese 5th generation fighter will not enter service by then.

Lastly, Pakistan is better off contributing to China's 4th gen planes (5th gen worldwide) and get those in the 2020s.....

China has two programs, an exclusively domestic heavyweight type and a medium-weight type which may be offered for export. The latter fighter will not come until after the first enters service, and the first one will be around in the 2020s. The second fighter will be aimed to come in the 2030s, I guarantee it...

 

[fatman17]

My post had nothing to do with any of that...but I can wager the IAF will begin to receive its first 5th generation fighters (PAK-FA) around 2020~2025...even for developmental testing if need be. Realistically that is a full 15 years from now and it may not take that long. Around that time, it would be imperative for PAF to begin introducing this capability, and investment in a light/medium weight Chinese 5th generation fighter will not enter service by then.

China has two programs, an exclusively domestic heavyweight type and a medium-weight type which may be offered for export. The latter fighter will not come until after the first enters service, and the first one will be around in the 2020s. The second fighter will be aimed to come in the 2030s, I guarantee it...

MS, pls correct me but didnt the US Defence secty state that the chinese 4th/5th gen will be operational by 2018 barring any future delays!

 

[AVIAN]

MS, pls correct me but didnt the US Defence secty state that the chinese 4th/5th gen will be operational by 2018 barring any future delays!

Chinese 4th Generation is already operatioal but 5th Generation, I doubt so.

 

[ANG]

Hi, I do not think the PAF would ever get the F-35. Let's look at how the PAF is treated. It's new PAF F-16s have severe restrictions on them, and have US personnel monitoring them, whereas India was offered full transfer of technology of the F-16IN competing for the MRCA contract. There is a day an night difference in this, and the PAF would be crazy to invest so much money on a sanctions prone aircraft. Thanks!