F-35 myths and facts

[500]

Most of the anti F-35 myths come from Pier Sprey, former defence analyst, who calls himself F-16 and A-10 designer (although he never designed any of those).

1) F-35 has poor T/W ratio => poor acceleration and climb

In standard fighter configuration F-35's T/W ratio is about 1.1. That's better than average for 4th gen fighters: virtually equal to MiG-29, MiG-35, F-18C, F-18E, F-16, Rafale and much better than Gripen, Gripen NG, Su-30MK, JF-17, J-10....

2) F-35 has tiny wings => poor turn

In standard fighter configuration F-35 wing load is about 415 kg/m2. It's worse than average for 4th gen fighters, but virtually equal to very maneuverable fighters like MiG-35, F-16C, Gripen NG. Much better than F-16 block 52/60/70.

3) F-35 has poor maneuverability

As I noted above, in terms of both wing loading & T/W ratio F-35 is very close to F-18C, F-18E, F-16 block 52, MiG-29, MiG-35, which all are very maneuverable aircraft. F-35 is 9g rated fighter (maximum possible g load for any fighter today). It has 50 degree alpha (more than any 4th gen), it can do pedal turn (something that 4th gen cant do), it has excellent control, pitch and roll rates. So overall F-35 is very maneuverable fighter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeqryYh_yw0&t=226s

4) F-35 is hopeless in dogfight

As I showed F-35 is very maneuverable aircraft, so even in aerobatic dogfight from the movies it would have a good chance. But contrary to popular belief dogfight is not some kind of aerobatics, its mostly hit and run. For example during the WW2 US F6F Hellcats were slaughtering much more maneuverable Japanese A5M Zero with ratio more than 10-1 thanks to hit and run (boom-zoom) tactics.

The most critical factor in aerial combat is who sees the foe first. Thanks to stealth and advanced sensors (AESA radar and DAS) F-35 has much higher chance to see its opponent first and win.

5) F-35 is too slow

Partially true.

* In fighter configuration F-35 with 1.6 Mach speed is indeed slower than virtually all 4 gen fighters (only JF-17 has same speed).
* On the other hand in bomber configuration F-35 has same 1.6 Mach and is actually the fastest of all (while conventional fighters with pods and bombs will barely reach 1.2-1.3 Mach).
* Maximum speed does not really matter in actual warfare. That's why Mirage 2000 with 2.2 Mach max speed is replaced by Rafale with 1.8 Mach max speed.

6) F-35 can't loiter over the battlefield like A-10

A-10 could loiter for 2 hours at 460 km range. F-35 has 2200 km range. That means at 460 km radius it will left with 2200-460*2 = 1280 km range fuel. At 600 km/h speed thats more than 2 hours of loiter time. Thus F-35 loiter time is equal or even better than A-10. And thanks to stealth F-35 will have much higher survivability than the A-10 while loiter.

7) Tank is not visible form quarter mile or less. For CAS you need to get in close, turn slow over the battlefield like A-10 something F-35 can't do

Pier Sprey lives in 1970-es mindset. F-35 is equipped with modern FLIR and powerful radar with SAR and GMTI. With these systems it can detect tanks from 20 km and more. In addition F-35 can get data from UAVs.

With 8 SDB-2 bombs carried internally F-35 can destroy tank or any other mobile target from safe distance. So there is no any reason to get in close.

8) F-35 is a terrible bomber because it carry only 2 big bombs internally

2 2000-lb bombs is a typical interdiction mission payload of a medium multirole fighter. Thanks to stealth F-35 has much better survivability rate than conventional fighters. F-35 has excellent speed with bombing payload and sensors. All it makes it best tactical bomber around.

9) F-35 is extremely expensive

F-35 development cost is about $40 bln + $200 bln for prosecution of 2,400 aircraft. Thus 100 mln $ per F-35 including the development. Current flyaway cost is 89 mln and expected to fall even more to about 80 mln:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-airshow-f35-exclusive/exclusive-lockheed-f-35-jet-price-falls-6-percent-to-below-90-million-sources-idUKKBN1K50DD

For comparison Russians asking for FGFA 6.7 bln for development + 17.1 bln for procurement of 127 aircraft. Thats 187 mln $ per aircraft including the development and 135 mln $ flyaway cost.

https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-toda...on-fighter-aircraft-russia-1036340-2017-09-02

Rafale cost India €91.7 million per aircraft or 108 mln $.

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/has-india-paid-more-for-the-rafales/20171201.htm

 

[UKBengali]

F-35 will be prey to every single 5th generation fighter like J-20 and the upcoming ones from Turkey and Europe.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

F-35 will be prey to every single 5th generation fighter like J-20 and the upcoming ones from Turkey and Europe.

F-35 JSF Joint Strike Fighter is strike fighter like Su-34. It's not a multi role fighter like Su-35, F-22, Su-30, J-20. F-35 is not built for speed or agility. Good luck preying on anything other than ground targets.

 

[randomradio]

Pretty much everything Pierre Sprey has said about the F-35 is a myth. But that doesn't change the fact that the F-35 isn't a real air superiority aircraft.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Pretty much everything Pierre Sprey has said about the F-35 is a myth. But that doesn't change the fact that the F-35 isn't a real air superiority aircraft.

F-35 has F-22's thrust vectoring, super cruise deleted. F-35 is only Mach 1.6 to Mach 1.8. F-35 has very little agility. F-35 is strike fighter, not multi role like F-22, Su-35, Su-30 which have thrust vectoring and / or super cruise and Mach 2+ speed.

F-35 is strike fighter like Su-34 which is slow Mach 1.8 and has Su-30 / 35's thrust vectoring deleted.

 

[Kamil_baku]

F35 is good for 4th generation fighter, but any agile 5th generation fighter will be able to win it.. Thats why countries started to develop their won aircrafts..

 

[Ultima Thule]

F35 is good for 4th generation fighter, but any agile 5th generation fighter will be able to win it.. Thats why countries started to develop their won aircrafts..

no F-35 is the world most electronically advanced jet can take all 5th gen jets in BVR arena @Kamil_baku

F35 is good for 4th generation fighter, but any agile 5th generation fighter will be able to win it.. Thats why countries started to develop their won aircrafts..

no F-35 is the world most electronically advanced jet can take all 5th gen jets in BVR arena @Kamil_baku

 

[Kamil_baku]

no F-35 is the world most electronically advanced jet can take all 5th gen jets in BVR arena @Kamil_baku


no F-35 is the world most electronically advanced jet can take all 5th gen jets in BVR arena @Kamil_baku

dude, in one sentence, you deny yourself..
fighting with 5th generation stealth aircraft means you cannot use BVR missiles..

 

[!eon]

Till now there are only calculated statistics available from pro F-35 an their opponent group. This jet hasn't seen any real enemy and probably would not see.

Regardless of arguments from both sides, even if it's not a good platform but certainly it's an excellent base for very very good future platform.

F-35 JSF Joint Strike Fighter is strike fighter like Su-34. It's not a multi role fighter like Su-35, F-22, Su-30, J-20. F-35 is not built for speed or agility. Good luck preying on anything other than ground targets.

Even very old jets from Byzantine Empire can defeat F-35 easily.

 

[Ultima Thule]

dude, in one sentence, you deny yourself..
fighting with 5th generation stealth aircraft means you cannot use BVR missiles..

And bro all 5th gen jets is/will designed for to detect/track/engage opponent 5th gen stealth jets @Kamil_baku

 

[!eon]

And bro all 5th gen jets is/will designed for to detect/track/engage opponent 5th gen stealth jets @Kamil_baku

How to lock a 5th gen target at BVR ?

 

[Ultima Thule]

How to lock a 5th gen target at BVR ?

Classified @!eon

 

[500]

F-35 has F-22's thrust vectoring, super cruise deleted. F-35 is only Mach 1.6 to Mach 1.8. F-35 has very little agility. F-35 is strike fighter, not multi role like F-22, Su-35, Su-30 which have thrust vectoring and / or super cruise and Mach 2+ speed.

F-35 is strike fighter like Su-34 which is slow Mach 1.8 and has Su-30 / 35's thrust vectoring deleted.

1) Thrust vectoring is effective at slow speeds like 300-500 km/h, but no one fights at slow speeds. If you lose speed in combat you became an easy prey. Its good for airshows but ads virtually nothing to combat. Thats why US air force removed thrust vectoring from requirements of 5 gen fighter already in 1987.
2) Mach 2+ is very hard to achieve with external payload and also not used in actual combat. Also its achieved at very high altitudes no one really goes there today (you became an easy prey for long range SAM).
3) Supercruise still consumes very large amount of fuel so planes rarely fly at supercruise more than ~100 miles. And again its achieved at high altitudes which not really used in actual battle.

Thats why 2.2 Mach Mirage is replaced with 1.8 Mach Rafale and 2.34 Mach F-14 replaced with 1.8 Mach Super Hornet.

Pretty much everything Pierre Sprey has said about the F-35 is a myth. But that doesn't change the fact that the F-35 isn't a real air superiority aircraft.

During the exercises F-35A achieved 20-1 kill ratio and F-35B - 24-0 kill ratio. And F-35 these results are achieved with limited operational capability.

F-22 maybe not equal to F-22 in air to air, but still easily beat all 4/4.5 gen fighters.

F35 is good for 4th generation fighter, but any agile 5th generation fighter will be able to win it.. Thats why countries started to develop their won aircrafts..

What makes u think that the Chinese copy of F-35 (J-31) will be able to win the original F-35? One F135 engine has considerably more thrust than two RD-93 (182 kN vs. 2x85=170 KN).

 

[randomradio]

During the exercises F-35A achieved 20-1 kill ratio and F-35B - 24-0 kill ratio. And F-35 these results are achieved with limited operational capability.

That's pointless. The F-35 won't actually fight those older aircraft.

The F-35 should be compared to the F-22 and what else is coming up. Since avionics and stealth are its main strengths, and performance is secondary, then the F-35 with superior stealth and avionics should be able to beat the F-22 consistently. But if it can't, then it's because the F-22's superior performance is key.

And if the PAK FA or J-20 are capable of beating the F-22, then the entire F-35 fleet is irrelevant.

 

[500]

That's pointless. The F-35 won't actually fight those older aircraft.

1) 4th gen aircraft will remain the backbone of all air forces for decades.
2) Many F-35 critics say that even 4th gen will beat it in air to air.

The F-35 should be compared to the F-22 and what else is coming up. Since avionics and stealth are its main strengths, and performance is secondary, then the F-35 with superior stealth and avionics should be able to beat the F-22 consistently. But if it can't, then it's because the F-22's superior performance is key.

F-22 F-35 mix is similar to F-15 F-16 mix. F-15 is better than F-16 air to air, but still F-16 is very capable and many leading air forces around the world rely only on F-16 in air to air role.

And if the PAK FA or J-20 are capable of beating the F-22, then the entire F-35 fleet is irrelevant.

There is very little chance that Pakfa and J-20 can beat the F-22. Stealth becomes the decisive factor in air to air and F-35 has excellent stealth. According to some reports in can beat even the F-22 in stealth.