F-35 for Israel

[Imran Khan]

Yes, they are comparable. And Israel has the right to upgrade its military keeping its own perspectives and threats in mind-not others.

why can't palestine buy even mi-17 for patrol on borders ?

 

[was]

americans may consider it a cheaper option..
to strike deep in iran,all they have to do is give israel aid and weapons and it will do the job for its own suvival, anyways more f35 may be supplied to israel and there could be a US base with f22 in israel for future strikes,
while the US is expanding bases like in afghanistan,pakistan,
it also becomes necessary forIndia-Russia to have stealth fighters squadrons ready as soon as possible,hence comes Pakfa.

where are the us bases in pakistan

 

[bernard]

where are the us bases in pakistan

but they are free to use pakistani bases which they were doing previously

 

[Imran Khan]

but they are free to use pakistani bases which they were doing previously

after mussraf its dream only

 

[Marshal]

why can't palestine buy even mi-17 for patrol on borders ?

Because Palestine is yet to be recognised as an indipendent state by the international community and accourding to the international law if a country is not recognised as an indipendent state then no country can sell any weapon to her............however If Russia unilaterally recognises Palestine as state then palestine can buy weapons from Russia.......

 

[Black Stone]

Because Palestine is yet to be recognised as an indipendent state by the international community and accourding to the international law if a country is not recognised as an indipendent state then no country can sell any weapon to her............however If Russia unilaterally recognises Palestine as state then palestine can buy weapons from Russia.......

In an ideal world that would be the case. The International Community doesn't recognize Taiwan as a state, yet we still sell them weapons.

This comes the infamous saying of..."One rule for us and one rule for the rest".

Our pretext is the TRA.

 

[Contrarian]

why can't palestine buy even mi-17 for patrol on borders ?

Because Russia doesnt want to sell them. Palestine is more than welcome to develop its own helicoptors and planes for its uses.

Beggars cant be choosers. Its a US plane-they will sell it to whomever they want to-you cant cry because they didnt sell it to you or someone else.

 

[Imran Khan]

Because Russia doesnt want to sell them. else.

MOSCOW, December 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is expected to donate 50 armored personnel carriers (APCs) and two Mi-17 transport helicopters to Palestine, a source close to the negotiations said Monday.

"We will supply the equipment to Palestine as aid," the source said.

The arrangement, including financing, has already been agreed on by all the ministries involved. However, it is not yet clear when the deliveries will take place, the source said.

Relevant issues have also been agreed on with Israel, the source added.

In February, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said: "We supplied military equipment to the Palestinians earlier. They recently approached us with a request for more equipment, including APCs. This request is being studied, and the Russian leaders are in support of it."

In October, Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said Defense Ministry and Interior Ministry officials were visiting Palestine to look into the possibility of providing assistance to Palestinian security forces and police.

RIA Novosti - Russia - Russia to donate 50 APCs, 2 helicopters to Palestine

 

[Imran Khan]

Israel Got Even With Russia and the USA
Sami Rozen, AIA Israeli section

Ariel Sharon (L) with Vladimir Putin (photo: NFC)
After the Middle-Eastern tour of the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, the Israeli experts studied a package of economic offers submitted by him to Sharon for almost two months. Moreover, in the view of the experts' opinion it was necessary to develop a further strategy in the relations between Israel and Russia. The meeting, in which this question was discussed and resolved, was set to take place on August 2. Taking into account the geopolitical implications of Putin’s offers, the Israeli leaders had to determine: whether to go along as before with the USA, or strengthen the strategic partnership with Russia in a counterbalance to American interests. It was not simple for Israelis to make such a choice, for they have recently collected not a few new grievances against both Moscow and Washington.

Grievances Against Russia

Putin's past Middle -Eastern policy – and at the beginning of this year has caused a crisis in Russian - Israeli relations. The reasons for this crisis were taken into consideration during the discussion.
Contradictions on the issue of Hezbollah: In November 2003, during a meeting in Moscow Sharon asked Vladimir Putin to add the Lebanese Hezbollah to the Russian list of terrorist organizations. The president of Russia promised to take steps in this direction within the framework of Russian law. However, this promise was not fulfilled, and, moreover, Moscow even activated secret contacts with Hezbollah. In April 2005, the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia, Alexander Saltanov, declared that this organization would be included in "the black list" only in the case of conducting terrorist activity on Russian territory.
Sale of Russian weapons to Syria: Moscow's obligation to sell Damascus anti-aircraft – missile complexes, "Streletz", has caused extreme discontent in Israel. The Israelis tried in every possible way to foil the transaction, including mobilization of American pressure on Russia, but in vain.
Sale of Russian weapons to Palestine: Moscow has undertaken to deliver 2 cargo helicopters MI-17, 50 armored vehicles BRDM-2 and a large quantity of ammunition for Kalashnikov rifles to Palestine. The Israeli side declared that it would not allow the delivery of armored vehicles to the territory of the Palestinian authority. The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia, Sergey Lavrov, replied: "The question of arming the Palestinians concerns the Palestinians, and not Israel."

Vladimir Putin (L)
with Mahmud Abbas (Palestinian President)

Middle-Eastern conflict settlement issue: From November 2004 until July 2005 Moscow put forward many initiatives, which in its opinion could promote the settlement of the Middle-Eastern conflict. Sharon has rejected all of Russia's offers, including Putin's personal initiative on the convocation of a peace-making conference in Moscow. The Israeli Prime Minister accused the Kremlin of serving only Arab interests with all its offers. The offer of Russia to serve as an intermediary in negotiations between Israel and Lebanon and Syria in the beginning of July was rejected even by the leader of the Israeli left wing, Shimon Peres.
Growing anti-Semitism in Russia: The amount of anti-Semitic literature on open sale in the large cities of Russia has considerably increased recently. Simultaneously publication of anti-Semitic contents in local newspapers has become more frequent. Additionally, from May up to the beginning of August a number of violent actions against Jews took place. One of the oldest synagogues of Russia, which is situated near Moscow was plundered, and then burned down. Headstones at the Moscow Jewish cemetery were smashed and a pogrom in a Jewish shop in the Russian capital city took place. In the cities Vladimir and Taganrog there were attacks on buildings belonging to the Jewish community. In many cases, judicial opinions and the Office of the Public Prosecutor openly took the side of the initiators and perpetrators of anti-Semitic actions (the most vivid example – the Office of Public Prosecutor of the Republic of Tatarstan). Anti-Semitic actions were carried out even in the Russian parliament, with the participation of the chairman of one of the parliamentary committees and a high-ranking officer of the Federal security services (Igor Harichkin).

Igor Harichkin

In parallel, the Office of the Public Prosecutor inspected one of the religious Jewish texts from the Middle Ages – "Shulhan Aruch", with the purpose of finding out if it represents a threat… to the security of Russia (by the way, in all the Muslim world a doubt about this text never arose ). At the end of June the Israeli vice-premier, Ehud Olmert, hinted to the Russian authorities, that if they do not stop oppression of the Jews, his government would consider the question of the continuation of economic cooperation with Russia.

Behind the Idyllic Scenes

Throughout almost all of the history of the state of Israel, the USA was its main strategic partner. However, behind the magnificent receptions of the Israeli leaders at the White house and declarations of eternal friendship, there are some periodic frictions and even secret conflicts. There are several principal causes of these conflicts.
Harsh steps of Israel concerning its Arab neighbors always were " the main irritant" for the US. During the Cold War the USA was afraid that the Israelis might induce them to participate in a large-scale conflict with the Soviet Union. Since the nineties the USA has been afraid that the actions of Israel might lead to the deterioration of their relations with the Arab world and the EU.
Espionage issues also provoked several crisis situations. Despite the strategic partnership of the two countries, the FBI always suspected the Israelis of espionage activity on US territory. In the autumn of 1985 its long-term diligence brought a result – Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew, an officer of the US Naval Forces intelligence, was arrested. He was accused of the transfer of classified information to Israel and sentenced to life imprisonment (very few people know that three months after Pollard’s arrest, the American spy, Iosef Amit, was caught in Israel and sentenced to 12 years in prison). Since then, Israel, together with North Korea and China, became a permanent state on the FBI's list of special services of the country’s main opponents. Although for the last two decades no Israeli spy was caught in the USA, the FBI announces once every few years that it has found new suspects.
The Activity of Israelis in the arms markets of the world traditionally was one of the most serious reasons for crisis situations between the two countries. Since the fifties American special services have suspected the Israelis of illegal activity in the USA and other western countries, aimed at the purchase of secret military technologies, including components for nuclear and biological weapons. Since the end of the seventies the export of Israeli arms to China began to attract great attention in the CIA. From the end of the nineties, the Americans classified military cooperation between these two countries as a threat to US national interests.
When contradictions of one of the above listed reasons appear, the White House usually applies all possible means of pressure on Israel, from promises of additional help to open ultimatums. Representatives of the American administration consider that Israel is very much obliged to Washington and consequently should accede to its interests. Among the Israeli establishment there are two opinions. The first group agrees that America is the only reliable partner and patron of Israel, and the country should follow with understanding any requests of the White House. Their opponents mark that it is necessary to consider US interests, but it is important for Israel to keep its independence and not to turn itself into the 51st state of America.
For most of the history of Israel, the first of these two opinions prevailed among its leadership. The present Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, during his political career usually made the impression that he agreed with the position of Washington. However, he always operated in his own way, sometimes clearly against American interests. With his coming to power in 2000, on the one hand there was an even greater rapprochement between two countries, but on the other the activity of Israelis rendering damage to US interests has increased. First of all it was expressed in the strengthening of military-industrial cooperation with China, Russia, India and the countries of Southeast Asia.
Beijing is considered by Washington to be a potential military opponent, and Moscow, as a geopolitical contender in Eurasia. Southern and Southeast Asia are the prioritized directions of activity of American arms exporters. Israelis are not allies for them there, but sworn competitors.
Israeli activity on the above listed weapons markets has caused an unprecedented rigid reaction in the White House. To this was added the campaign of the FBI of catching Israeli spies in the United States. The aspirations of Washington to become the only definer of a course of Middle-Eastern conflict settlement after the realization of the withdrawal from Gaza was the last straw for a number of Israeli leaders. They have amassed so many grievances against the USA that it is possible to speak about an appearance of latent anti-American moods among a certain part of the local establishment.

Grievances Against the USA

From the moment of Sharon's coming to power, there were more than a few conflicts and contradictions between Israel and the USA. There are three cases, which have generated the greatest grudge between the sides.
Military cooperation of Israel and China: in the summer of 2000 the deciding round of the Israeli - Palestinian negotiations should have taken place in Washington. Against this background in July, Israel conceded to USA pressure and refused to sell to China Falcon airplanes with an AWACS radar system for the total sum of $1.2 billion.

Israeli F-16A Falcon Fighters (photo: Corbis)
In March 2001, Ariel Sharon, during his first visit to the USA as Prime Minister, raised the question of renewal of military cooperation with China. Without the consent of the White House, Sharon initiated new contacts with Beijing in the military area. In February 2002, Israel paid China compensation for the transaction, which was terminated earlier, totaling $350 million. This act created conditions for the renewal of active cooperation. The negotiations between the two countries on modernization by Israeli of the UAV's of the Chinese Air Forces have begun. In March 2004, a delegation of the Ministry of Defense of Israel came to Beijing. Two out of the four most significant figures of the defense department (including the Minister himself) came with the delegation: the General Director, Amos Yaron, and the head of the Department of Internal Security (the powerful secret service of the Ministry), Yahiel Horev. In June 2005, the White House demanded that Sharon dismiss these people and two other officials of the Ministry of Defense from their posts, because of their active participation in the establishment of military cooperation with China. Those demands of Washington caused a furious reaction among the primary agents of the Israeli military industry and security bodies. Yaron and Horev are the key figures in the Israeli system of arms export, which reaches tens of billions of dollars annually. Accordingly, large military enterprises, the army command, influential financial and political groups, and also a set of international intermediaries, as well as governors of some countries of Asia and Africa are interested in the activity of these people. Naturally, they both remained in their posts. However, in Israel the requests of the White house have been perceived by many as an intervention in personnel policy of the Ministry of Defense and accordingly an encroachment on state sovereignty.
The rivalry for the arms markets of Southern and Southeast Asia: After Sharon's coming to power he initiated state support to the Israeli manufacturers and weapons exporters. Up to that time, the large American companies, being supported by the White House, the Pentagon and CIA, gradually squeezed out the Israelis from the weapons markets of Southern and Southeast Asia. Especially this was felt in Indonesia, Singapore and India. Sharon's move (he is not a neophyte in this sphere, for in the eighties he actively participated in the sale of weapons to the countries of Africa) has caused a true war between American and Israeli dealers in these regions. The Russians and Chinese sometimes support the Israelis in this matter . A victory in this war would mean receiving billions worth of contracts. The methods of antagonism are diversified: the payoff of local army commanders, discrediting the Ministers, blackmailing diplomats, recruitment of employees of competing companies…
The FBI's hunt for Israeli spies. On September 6 in America the court session in the case of the former high-ranking employee of the Pentagon, Larry Franklin will open. He is accused of the transfer of classified information to Israel through the representatives of AIPAC (Jewish lobby). FBI agents monitored their contacts with Franklin, during a long shadowing of the employees of the Israeli embassy in Washington.
Officially Israel has completely denied any charges. Unofficially the representatives of the Israeli leadership and secret services show sharp discontent with the FBI's actions. As they said, they try to help their American colleagues in every possible way; they share classified information with them; they transfer their unique experience of counter-terrorist operations to the fighters of the elite divisions of the CIA and Pentagon. But as a ''token of gratitude", as the Israelis bitterly say, they receive: training of Palestinian commandos by the American instructors, FBI's hunting for Israeli spies and attempts of the CIA's leadership to incite the White House against Israel...

 

[Contrarian]

Good if Palestine is getting equipment from Russia. Im happy for them, but i will repeat what i said-beggars cant be choosers.

 

[TsAr]

JEWISH LOBBY IS VERY STRONG IT CAN MAKE USA DO ANYTHING FOR ISRAEL.

 

[TsAr]

ONE THING MORE ISRAEL IS NOT BUYING THESE PLANES OR WEAPONS FOR PALESTINIAN THEY ARE GOING TO USE IT ON OTHER ISLAMIC COUNTRIES....THEY ALREADY HAVE MORE THEN ENUF WEAPONS FOR THE POOR PALESTINIANS PEOPLE

 

[Jihad]

Great, they get another state of the art toy, will most likely be used on helpless Palestinian civilians.
Way to go for the American policy to maintain "peace and stability" across the region, morons.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Kafir he to Shamshir pe karta he bhrosa
Momen he to be-taigh bhi larta he sepahi



Allam Mohammad Iqbal

Afterall u just need such wepons to win wars