F-22 Raptor pilots practice simulated combat against Pakistan, UK & France Pilots

[LeGenD]

I have seen a documentary where the F22 brings down F15s with ease...

Is there any way that Pakistan could counteract the F22 in a hypothetical war against America...

No! We do not have such capability.

(not that the Americans will ever dare fight against Pakistan or have such capability to be able to bring the F22s even close to Pakistan airspace... unless they fly them from India)

This is a wishful thinking.

Answer lies in:

However, let us just hope that such a confrontation never happens.

I understand the American strength but I am also aware of their weaknesses...

Which are?

They cannot bring their Aircraft Carriers close enough to Pakistan (correct me if I m wrong) because Pakistan could theoretically use a tactical nuke strike against such an attempt)...

And in response, USA would?

US does not needs to station its Carrier Group near Pakistan, if hostilities escalate. USAF can use A-T-A refueling capability to launch air strikes in Pakistan.

This is why I stated that the only way they could bring their F22 in combat against Pakistan would be by flying them from India... They cannot do that from other countries surrounding Pakistan (maybe one of the Central Asian countries... dont think Russia would allow fifth generation warplanes on one of their former soviet states)...

They don't need India to launch air strikes in Pakistan due to obvious reasons provided above.

But the question remains... what could Pakistan do against a fifth generation warplane... If we continue such a hypothetical scenrio then we have no choice but to acquire such warplanes from China... I have heard from American military personnel that the top Sukhoi are good too? Will they compare anything with the F22?

No! Sukhoi does not compares to F22. Even Eurofighter Typhoon does not compares to F22.

Read more about it here.

I m not well versed in military technology... thats why I m here to learn... But you should also think outside the box... It is nt a joke to bring American fleet to another countries shore and destroy it as you are proposing... Even to get into Iraq, America had to rely on the "good will" of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Jordan and Egypt...

When you plan to invade a country, you need a staging ground for such a purpose. This is where Kuwait came in to equation in case of invasion of Iraq.

Once a staging ground was available, good will of other nations was irrelevant.

Also one should consider that America is economically crippled and they may not consider war with a country like Pakistan a viable option at all... No matter what happens you cannot see a countries military might separate from the ground reality of its economic and political condition... when you consider those America is in deep hell these days on both fronts... There is a rising anti Americanism across the world... One does not need to comment on their economics at all...

I don't buy this crippled economic thing. Despite of its so called crippled economy, America is affording two wars simultaneously. Once it gets its hands free from both, I don't think that it would be impossible for Americans to open another front, if necessary.

Similarly despite having huge military might what I would want to draw your attention to is the fact that they dug quagmires for themselves in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan which dont even have standing armies...

Wars are always messy. We have never seen one in front of us, so we do not understand.

Americans have won in Iraq actually. They:

1. Successfully captured Iraq in 21 days.
2. Destroyed regime of Saddam.
3. Crushed several rebellion movements.
4. Looted natural wealth.
5. Installed a favorable government.
6. Ended major operations and will soon have a safe-exit.

Do you expect anything else?

And Iraq had the 4th largest military force in the world during 1991. That 'standing army' was also defeated by the American war machine in 45 days.

Want to see Chinese perspective on this?

The Gulf War prompted a major re-think of Chinese military modernisation. Priorities may have to be adjusted again. This could happen. Chinese television programmes have been showing how bombs guided by lasers relying on geo-positioning systems (GPS) work.

From here.

As far as Afghanistan is concerned, it presents a different kind of challenge. Its extreme territory is its greatest asset. And Taliban have lots of safe-havens in PAK-AFGHAN border regions.

Why cant Pakistani fighters fight against the US if need be? Can an F16 not fight against another F16? Just because the planes are American does nt mean they cant be used in a fight against America...

They can be but it won't do any good. Like it or not, USAF > PAF.

Safriz... Much obliged... where there is a will there is a way

It does not means that we start taking chances. Such kind of will can back-fire.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Yawn...

Yes... we cant do anything to America... America is God (naozobillah) and we should obey each and every command of America... Otherwise they ll bomb us to stone age...

 

[LeGenD]

Yawn...

Yes... we cant do anything to America... America is God (naozobillah) and we should obey each and every command of America... Otherwise they ll bomb us to stone age...

Solution lies in:

1. Ending our dependency upon them.
2. Elimination of corruption.
3. Investing in R&D.

Once this happens, we won't have much to fear from the Americans. Look at the case of Iran.

Independant nations are always stronger than dependant ones and can have a better say in the worldy affairs.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Solution lies in:

1. Ending our dependency upon them.
2. Elimination of corruption.
3. Investing in R&D.

Once this happens, we won't have much to fear from the Americans. Look at the case of Iran.

Independant nations are always stronger than dependant ones and can have a better say in the worldy affairs.

You do realize I hope that half of Pakistan is illiterate, that really nothing good is going to happen till that problem is solved.

Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate
Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate? TheSouthAsianIdea Weblog

The idea of investing in research and building weapons while half of Pakistan is illiterate is not the best solution to Pakistans problems.

There is a strong correlation between poverty and illiteracy.

 

[Molawchai]

You do realize I hope that half of Pakistan is illiterate, that really nothing good is going to happen till that problem is solved.

Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate
Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate? TheSouthAsianIdea Weblog

The idea of investing in research and building weapons while half of Pakistan is illiterate is not the best solution to Pakistans problems.

There is a strong correlation between poverty and illiteracy.

Oh no, not again CAPTAIN, do you know you are doing some serious naked trolling? look up the topic is "F-22 Raptor pilots practice simulated combat again Pakistan, UK and France pilots" WTF with "half of Pakistan is illiterate"........??

But still, thankyou CAPTAIN for fully demonstrated the "Textbook" example of being a "Illiterate", man did you even know what the heck you trying to write? (the red bolded part)

Kudos to you having the courage to show your own "personal experience" to everyone as a "negative education".

 

[LeGenD]

You do realize I hope that half of Pakistan is illiterate, that really nothing good is going to happen till that problem is solved.

Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate
Why is Pakistan Half Illiterate? TheSouthAsianIdea Weblog

The idea of investing in research and building weapons while half of Pakistan is illiterate is not the best solution to Pakistans problems.

There is a strong correlation between poverty and illiteracy.

You can't have R&D programs unless you put strong emphasis on education.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

You can't have R&D programs unless you put strong emphasis on education.

It is my opinon that Pakistan needs to put more of its resources toward education then they do high tech weapons.

The USA with its F22's and other aircraft can dominate any other air force in the world. The only other air craft that will come close is the Russian F50 that will begin production in the next 5 to 7 years. I expect in ten year the USA will have stealthy combat UAVs that will be more then a match for the F50 and a lot less expensive.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Solution lies in:

1. Ending our dependency upon them.
2. Elimination of corruption.
3. Investing in R&D.

Once this happens, we won't have much to fear from the Americans. Look at the case of Iran.

Independant nations are always stronger than dependant ones and can have a better say in the worldy affairs.

I disagree on a few points here...

1. You cannot end dependency upon America unless you change the entire system of governance...

2. Removing corruption only within the same system that we have today will achieve next to nothing...

3. We need a lot more than RandD... We need a global vision instead of a nationalistic and limited local vision...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

It is my opinon that Pakistan needs to put more of its resources toward education then they do high tech weapons.

The USA with its F22's and other aircraft can dominate any other air force in the world. The only other air craft that will come close is the Russian F50 that will begin production in the next 5 to 7 years. I expect in ten year the USA will have stealthy combat UAVs that will be more then a match for the F50 and a lot less expensive.

Educating people is firstly not possible within the rotten system that we have today.. and secondly if by some miracle we achieve the resources within this very system of Zardaris and Busharafs to educate 100 percent of our population, we will still not achieve much...

there are thousands of highly educated people in pakistan without decent jobs... our problem foremost is that of the system that we live under...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

It is my opinon that Pakistan needs to put more of its resources toward education then they do high tech weapons.

The USA with its F22's and other aircraft can dominate any other air force in the world. The only other air craft that will come close is the Russian F50 that will begin production in the next 5 to 7 years. I expect in ten year the USA will have stealthy combat UAVs that will be more then a match for the F50 and a lot less expensive.

Yet the USA get regular hammering from the Taliban who dont even have an airforce... lol

 

[LeGenD]

I disagree on a few points here...

1. You cannot end dependency upon America unless you change the entire system of governance...

2. Removing corruption only within the same system that we have today will achieve next to nothing...

3. We need a lot more than RandD... We need a global vision instead of a nationalistic and limited local vision...

Brother, you just expanded on my points.

Yes! We need a revolution before we can accomplish the tasks that I mentioned. It is a tedious process and would require absolute dedication and will and not just talking.

 

[LeGenD]

Yet the USA get regular hammering from the Taliban who dont even have an airforce... lol

Taliban is an ideology. This is what Americans need to realize.

Casualties will always occur as long as their are boots on the ground.

You might be surprised to know that Taliban had aviation prior to invasion of Afghanistan.

Taliban Jets Reportedly Attack Opposition Forces - Los Angeles Times

During OEF, all of the jets controlled by Taliban were wiped out and airports within the country rendered useless.

Regardless, I believe that this war should end.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Brother, you just expanded on my points.

Yes! We need a revolution before we can accomplish the tasks that I mentioned. It is a tedious process and would require absolute dedication and will and not just talking.

We are on the same side of thinking then...

Speech is very important though... it is the mechanism by which Allah swt changed the minds and hearts of people... by speaking to our master who then conveyed the message... I m talking about the Quran...

We should be careful about the use of the word 'revolution"... the ideas of islam are revolutionary no doubt but the way Muhammad saw implemented Islam was with the help of Ansar and not by bloodshed... but I think you understand it in the same manner...

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Yet the USA get regular hammering from the Taliban who dont even have an airforce... lol

I am not sure I would call it a hammering, USA has been there 9 years and lost about a thousand soldiers. LA, DC and Chicago are about that dangerous.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Educating people is firstly not possible within the rotten system that we have today.. and secondly if by some miracle we achieve the resources within this very system of Zardaris and Busharafs to educate 100 percent of our population, we will still not achieve much...

there are thousands of highly educated people in pakistan without decent jobs... our problem foremost is that of the system that we live under...

You have a rotten poltical system because you have a rotten education system. Highly educated people in a country where half the population is illiterate are going to be with out decent jobs because people who illiterate are poor and dont contribute to the economy.

Now as far the F22, nothing is comming out that is going to rival it in the ten years or perhaps 20, even the russian 50s which are not going to be into production for 5 to 7 years, and still wont be a serious competer against the F22, by the time the Russians perhaps pakistans 50s are in production the USA will have stealthy combat UAV's that will make the 50s obsolete.

Let me take you in to 2020, a US F22 and US F35 will meet 30 enemy fighter planes, a mixture of 50s and other air craft. Along with the two american planes will be a dozen stealthy UAVs, some to act as decoys, some are combat UAV carrying long range and short range air to air missiles, several of the UAV's will have powerful radars that can light up the oncomming enemy aircraft with out disclosing the location of the US main forces. All 30 planes are shot down with out the F22 and F35 fireing a shot.