F-22 Raptor pilots practice simulated combat against Pakistan, UK & France Pilots

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Minashud.... The word you are looking for is Hypothetical...

As for MMA... Not really... The Americans have nothing to fear from the MMA...

Brother Irfan... You are allowed to laugh... I m not well versed in military technology... thats why I m here to learn... But you should also think outside the box... It is nt a joke to bring American fleet to another countries shore and destroy it as you are proposing... Even to get into Iraq, America had to rely on the "good will" of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, Jordan and Egypt...

Also one should consider that America is economically crippled and they may not consider war with a country like Pakistan a viable option at all... No matter what happens you cannot see a countries military might separate from the ground reality of its economic and political condition... when you consider those America is in deep hell these days on both fronts... There is a rising anti Americanism across the world... One does not need to comment on their economics at all... Similarly despite having huge military might what I would want to draw your attention to is the fact that they dug quagmires for themselves in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan which dont even have standing armies...

Naushad... You sure thats not photoshop?

Thanks for the pics... Most revealing.. )

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

hmmmm...

Looks like we need fifth generation war planes then in such a hypothetical scenario against America to call it even in the skies at least...

btw... You dont have to use strategic nuke strikes... The Chinese have a ballistic missile that takes care of aircraft carriers... it was in the news recently...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Another point that I just noticed Bro Naushad...

Why cant Pakistani fighters fight against the US if need be? Can an F16 not fight against another F16? Just because the planes are American does nt mean they cant be used in a fight against America...

Safriz... Much obliged... where there is a will there is a way

 

[mjnaushad]

Naushad... You sure thats not photoshop?

Thanks for the pics... Most revealing.. )

Yup i am sure

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/51077-paf-f7-escorting-f22.html

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

One wonders...

What are the F22s doing in Pakistan? Killing our own people in the tribal area?

 

[Safriz]

F-22 is regularly showed off to nations around the world as an icon of US military might.

 

[Chogy]

How did this turn into a U.S.A. vs. Pakistan debate? Kind of sad.

In training, even badly mismatched platforms gain experience, because not all training is "full up." You might have one engagement like that, then have others where one side is limited in some fashion. For example, we would often work with F-16's in a visual, turning environment by simulating no AIM-7. Additionally, the F-16's would gain valuable experience at getting to a merge untargeted using unorthodox methods.

Dissimilar training is always something sought by pilots, regardless of the mismatch, because they know their own platform so well, fighting similar holds few surprises.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Chogy... The word you are looking for is hypothetical my friend

 

[SQ8]

hmmmm...

Looks like we need fifth generation war planes then in such a hypothetical scenario against America to call it even in the skies at least...

btw... You dont have to use strategic nuke strikes... The Chinese have a ballistic missile that takes care of aircraft carriers... it was in the news recently...

Just make sure not to mention it when you have KFC,McDonalds.. or even use a computer.. after all .. these are all American inventions..
and oh.. while you are doing the 5th gen fighter dreaming against the US.. do thank them for their efforts in the flood relief and hope to expect such courtesy the next time disaster strikes the land of the "pure"..

And to those with the PAF vs USAF comparison.. personal testimony to me by a PAF officer who went for an exchange visit about the USAF..."they are 100 years ahead of us"..
Hypothetically, you would get your *** handed to you ten times over

Also.. those that have access to AFM.. please read the comments by F-22 raptor pilots about the PAF F-7PG's..
They praised the pilots.. and speculated on how best to "integrate" the F-22 with the F-7 next time they worked together.. instead of being on opposing sides.

The ATLC is a tactical leadership exercise to train mission commanders.. not a "My balls are bigger than yours" duel.
And I believe chogy is best placed to comment on what these are about.

 

[illuzioN]

Another point that I just noticed Bro Naushad...

Why cant Pakistani fighters fight against the US if need be? Can an F16 not fight against another F16? Just because the planes are American does nt mean they cant be used in a fight against America...

Safriz... Much obliged... where there is a will there is a way

why would you guys wanna fight us? why cant we be friends?

 

[Chogy]

Chogy... The word you are looking for is hypothetical my friend

Yeah, I tend to get worked up a bit. Hypothetical discussions are always interesting, but I'm afraid a lot of people might actually believe they are on some sort of American "Hit List."

Multinational training is a spectacular way for all involved to learn from each other. It is NEVER a d***-swinging contest. And it is also a strong sign of mutual respect and cooperation, i.e. friends and allies.

 

[mjnaushad]

One wonders...

What are the F22s doing in Pakistan? Killing our own people in the tribal area?

Its not Pakistan yaar....Its UAE ....It was a joint exercise and NATO and PAF was invited.....An honor

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Brother Irfan... You are allowed to laugh... I m not well versed in military technology... thats why I m here to learn... But you should also think outside the box...
Also one should consider that America is economically crippled and they may not consider war with a country like Pakistan a viable option at all...

I am sorry if you feel bad about my comments my intention was not to mock you but just wanted to point out that just a optimistic sense of superiority is not good enough for a real war scenario
I have been reading your comments and what others like Mjnaushad and in a hypothetical war scenario my guess is that land based SAM systems might be easier and more capable in a realistic sense knowing that the Chinese attempts at the 5th generation fighter are very far from reality and getting Russian version PAK-FA is not even a remotest possibility.

the best bet is the use of IADS (integrated Air defence systems). Use of modern radars and other surveillance equipment coupled with intelligent air defence weapons that include area denial anti aircraft guns and fire and forget missiles with intelligent systems to fly in range and defeat the counter measures of the 5th generation planes
the system being smart and advanced enough to look "around" the void of the stealthy craft to draw out the outline of the 5th generation plane and thus release long range missiles that are most ideally faster than Mac 2 and outrun and reach the high flying stealthy plane.
fielding a capable 5th generation fighter that can match something like F22 might be much harder prospect no matter how much we love our air force and value our friendship with China.
America is leagues away in R&D and technology. This is my take in response to your answer.
please refer to this video although it’s a bit cheesy and over cooked in favour of F22 but it does give you an insight on what can happen and what can be done.
re your comments about American economy and its problems due to its engagement in current conflicts well all I can say is till today it still stands as the biggest economical and military power with no other country even remotely close to it.


PS my Aviation knowledge is not even at amateur level

check this video series where the program shows possible opponents of F-22
warning: extremely onesided and cheesy but just gives you a taster of what to expect

 

[mjnaushad]

How did this turn into a U.S.A. vs. Pakistan debate? Kind of sad.

I wont take it as US v PAK....I'll take it as what Pak have to counter 5th Gen Aircraft. As US is not alone in 5th gen anymore. Russia came with T50, Not operational but still threat to Pakistan as India will get it as soon it will be operational.....

 

[Safriz]

During the cold war Swedish military analysts calculated that if USSR wants they could over run Sweden in less than a week,and Swedish armed forces wont be able to stop them.
They didn't formulate a defense strategy against USSR as it was useless.Instead they made a retaliation/hit and run strategy.
Instead of building a handful of large military bases,they scattered their military assets throughout the country at known and hidden locations.So that if the large bases are conquered and destroyed, retaliation can be launched from multiple locations.
This explains why most of their motorways dont have light poles
so that their Grippen jets can land and take off from multiple locations outside airbases.This also explains why Grippen can take off and land from an 800 meter long by 9m wide runway.

Pakistan needs to adapt similar strategy