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viper`in`style

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Pak Observer (11/25/05)

Islamabad—Although Pakistan has kept on hold the much awaited F-16 deal with USA in order to divert resources to the rehabilitation and reconstruction of earth-quake areas, a decision at the highest authority has been taken to acquire 26 F-16s from Holland and Belgium soon after the Congressional seal. The 26 F-16 A & B are part of the package of 76 fighters that was announced by President Bush on March 26 this year after US Secretary of State Ms Rice’s South Asian visit. The US Administration after announcing the sale of F-16s to Pakistan notified its decision to Congress which will approve the deal. The 26 F-16s were to be sold to Pakistan by Holland and Belgium after the US Congress allows third country sale of these planes.

Top official sources told Pakistan Observer that while the deal with US for F-16 is on hold, 26 F-16s will be available to Pakistan Airforce in a matter of months. Officials said that Pakistan has also received a firm commitment from the US Administration that the remaining F-16s will be available to PAF whenever the country decides to revive the deal. Holland and Belgium under their force reduction have put on sale their surplus F-16s and have agreed to sell them to Pakistan at the probable price tag of about 10 million US $ per piece.

Sources said that Belgium could release some surplus F-16A/B to the PAF, most probably airframes with 2,000-3,000 hours of service left in them and without the MLU (Mid Life Update) features. The only real PAF modification would be to the radio and other systems for compatibility with PAF C3 (Command, Control, Communication) systems.
Regardless, the provision of such F-16s would improve the PAF’s capability substantially, even a force of 26 surplus F-16A/B would make a notable difference to the PAF’s capability. The price of surplus F-16A/B is likely to be in the reign of $10 million to $15 million per unit. This makes it on par with the FC-1/JF-17 in price, and would remain superior at field performance.

If no political strings attached used F-16A/B, is the best option. Logistically it would be feasible to incorporate the type, as Pakistan could easily train enough crews to accommodate a larger F-16A/B force. With upgrades, this option would make a lot of sense, especially if the upgrades could be carried out in Pakistan by PAC Kamra. The additional F-16s would also allow the PAF to phase out a large number of aircraft such the F-7P and concentrate its force to become smaller, leaner, and meaner.

While it is not clear what will be the breakdown of 26 F-16s between Belgium and Holland, the Belgium F-16s are believed to be equipped with BVR capabilities.

PAF sources say that surplus F-16 A/B from Holland and Belgium have been upgraded but it is still not clear if they have gone through MLU (Mid-life Upgradation). Some of the Holland’s F-16s have certainly gone through MLU but again it is not clear if these are available for sale to Pakistan. Once the US Congress clears the sale PAF will sign a bilateral agreement with the two countries for these fighters for sale as well as the logistic support including the supply of spares.

PAF has been very frustrated for not having been able to induct front-line fighter for last 15 years. It operates a fleet of 32 F-16s as a mainstay for air defence. The Force had taken a sigh of relief after the US decision to sell F-16s to Pakistan. But President Musharraf’s decision to postpone the acquisition came as a rude shock. Sources close to President however claim that the President had taken the decision with a heavy heart. And this is the reason that President will be pushing the acquisition of 26 F-16s from Europe on a fast track.

Even though CBMs with India are gaining pace with the opening of five points for the movement of Kashmiris, there is no let off in Indian belligerence towards Pakistan. Only last week on the 18 Nov, Indian Air Chief Air Marshal SP Tyagi said, in “spite of the confidence-building measures, Pakistan would remain a primary threat to India.” Delivering a lecture at the BC Joshi Memorial Pune University, Indian Air Chief said. “Though things have changed a great deal in the last three years between the two nations, the security dimension remains the same, terrorist infrastructure still exists in Pakistan and there is no reduction in cross-border terrorism”. He went on to say that, “Pakistan would remain a major threat and we cannot assume that the peace process is firmly entrenched. Terrorist threats and attacks continue to be regular phenomena indicating that the infrastructure for terrorism in Pakistan is still very active”.

The very aggressive statement by the Indian Air Chief has definitely sent alarms in Pakistani security circles. The government of Pakistan also feels that Pakistan’s security concerns have not changed with the CBMs. Therefore there is a need to review Pakistan’s decision to withhold F-16 deal with USA.

The Indian Air Chief during his lecture also announced that IAF is buying 80 helicopters and contemplating joint production of a 15 tonnes transport aircraft. Besides the IAF, is in the process of acquiring improved sensors that include AWACS, by 2007, five aerostats and air defence missiles. MiG21, MiG 27 and Jaguar have been upgraded while upgradation of Mirage was in pipeline. He said when India enhances its strategic boundaries, the role of IAF would grow and in such situation it must look to increase its strategic reach through flight refueler aircraft. The IAF has acquired six aerial refuelers and have immediate plans of acquiring six more.
 
Owais and viper in style is right for the 1st time in his life. F-16A/B can be brought upto the F-16 block 50 standard through an MLU but that MLU upgarde would cost nothing less than 20 to 25 million per aircaft, technically there are many sorts of MLU upgarde depending actually on what the customer exactly wants.
 
Originally posted by Owais@Nov 27 2005, 05:35 PM
means we can have F16blk50 for only 25-30millions! :thumbsup:
Thats Great. :clapping:
I heard that Pakistan can perform MLU from end of 2006. will these MLU be the blk50 standards??
[post=3867]Quoted post[/post]​


Well owais my brother i cant say anything for sure coz it is actually up to the PAF what sort of MLU it wants you must be aware of the fact that PAF had upgarded the F-16's them selves and the F-16's we have are said can actually launch AMRAAM meaning BVR missle but according to the conditions PAF is in i am sure it would go for the best MLU upgrade out there atleast i hope soo... :reading1:
 
Originally posted by Yahya@Nov 27 2005, 06:57 AM
why do they need refulers??

where do they want to go?
[post=3874]Quoted post[/post]​

The rest of the EU.

$10M a piece is mad cheap! It's cheaper than the JF-17! Then we have the MLU upgrade which shouldn't cost over $15M! This is a bargain!
 
hmmm thank u best for the first time well owais says in 2006 PAF perform MLUs ya this is true i will provide u a link soon
 
Originally posted by Pyongyang@Nov 27 2005, 07:18 PM
The rest of the EU.
[post=3889]Quoted post[/post]​

For what?? batteling against whom??

Thanks,

Miro
 
well this is a point listen first CAS and mushraf says we delay the purchase of 75 F-16 from US right but after 2 weeks PAF says we want to purchase 26 f-16s frm Balgium and holland so why not from US?thats it this is point well know i think na iam sure US officles are playing with us, so u says we can get BVRAAMs from US how? as we see PAF not want to buy F-16s from US, and CAS says that we want to buy 26 F-16 A/B from belgium and holland,how we can get BVRAAMs from US,if PAF not want to buy F-16 from US? how BVRAAMs
 
Originally posted by miroslav@Nov 27 2005, 12:33 PM
For what?? batteling against whom??

Thanks,

Miro
[post=3909]Quoted post[/post]​

The day the EU constitution doesn't get passed again and Europe falls into war, just over a constitution! Belgium and Holland will team up and lead a surprise attack on the other nations. Maybe France too. :evil:
 
Originally posted by Pyongyang@Nov 27 2005, 08:17 PM
The day the EU constitution doesn't get passed again and Europe falls into war, just over a constitution! Belgium and Holland will team up and lead a surprise attack on the other nations. Maybe France too. :evil:
You're joking, right?
Well, thats a good one! :taunt:
 
Wasn't one of the reasons for the sale of new F-16s, that it would save around 5000 jobs in Texas?
 
Originally posted by viper`in`style@Nov 27 2005, 04:51 PM
Wasn't one of the reasons for the sale of new F-16s, that it would save around 5000 jobs in Texas?
[post=3922]Quoted post[/post]​

It helps both countries. The US and Pakistan. And the C/Ds are going to be produced in the Lockheed factories. These are the used A/Bs that were in the deal.
 
I think the deal of MLU (old ones) will not have any effect of the Earth Quake. PAF will, no matter what will recieve funds for at least old F-16s to maintain the flight hours and also give some taste of new technology. Note the fighters that will be acquired will sure be with the standard of Block 50(MLU), and will be equipped with latest/modern weapons.

Belgeium and Holland will not transfer their aircrafts directly to Pakistan. These fighters will first go to U.S for MLU and then will transfer to PAF, unless PAF really want these fighters fast and quick they will recieve it without MLU, or the fighters might have been already MLU since we have no news or at least i dont have any about them being MLU.

About the jobs, guys chill out, only some jobs will be lost in LM, but not all. There are other countries too who have ordered F-16s in Lockheed, and Pakistan have delayed the deal, not CANCELED.
 
Originally posted by WebMaster@Nov 28 2005, 03:49 AM
I think the deal of MLU (old ones) will not have any effect of the Earth Quake. PAF will, no matter what will recieve funds for at least old F-16s to maintain the flight hours and also give some taste of new technology. Note the fighters that will be acquired will sure be with the standard of Block 50(MLU), and will be equipped with latest/modern weapons.

Belgeium and Holland will not transfer their aircrafts directly to Pakistan. These fighters will first go to U.S for MLU and then will transfer to PAF, unless PAF really want these fighters fast and quick they will recieve it without MLU, or the fighters might have been already MLU since we have no news or at least i dont have any about them being MLU.

About the jobs, guys chill out, only some jobs will be lost in LM, but not all. There are other countries too who have ordered F-16s in Lockheed, and Pakistan have delayed the deal, not CANCELED.
[post=3956]Quoted post[/post]​

well this is a point about i wana talk here tell me how much AMRRAM AIM-120 or AIM-120 C or 9X is important for PAF with 26 F-16s deal with holland and belgium,and any other option we have ?? like MICA,or SD-10 on F-16?because if we cant get these BVRAAMs and AMRAAMs then we must we AIM-PL or magic R.550 or else and we know there is no match between AIM-120 and PL and with other so the improtance of new weaponery is very high from paf view. so what do u think?
 
Originally posted by WebMaster@Nov 27 2005, 10:49 PM
I think the deal of MLU (old ones) will not have any effect of the Earth Quake. PAF will, no matter what will recieve funds for at least old F-16s to maintain the flight hours and also give some taste of new technology. Note the fighters that will be acquired will sure be with the standard of Block 50(MLU), and will be equipped with latest/modern weapons.

Belgeium and Holland will not transfer their aircrafts directly to Pakistan. These fighters will first go to U.S for MLU and then will transfer to PAF, unless PAF really want these fighters fast and quick they will recieve it without MLU, or the fighters might have been already MLU since we have no news or at least i dont have any about them being MLU.

About the jobs, guys chill out, only some jobs will be lost in LM, but not all. There are other countries too who have ordered F-16s in Lockheed, and Pakistan have delayed the deal, not CANCELED.
[post=3956]Quoted post[/post]​

The US isn't upgrading the F-16s, PAC is going to do that. I heard some LM officials are going to supervise the first few then leave b/c by then PAC will know how to do the MLU upgrade.
 

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