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F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

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can we get this Radar in our new Block 52+ instead of APG 68V(9)??

The way I see it, APG-68V(9) will esnure that PAF gets the aircraft as per schedule. The AESA radars provide a migration/upgrade path for the same aircraft and other older blocks in the PAF service if the PAF decides that all F-16s should be upgraded to an AESA capability. BTW, I believe PAF and LM had discussions around the same AESA radars right around the time of the placement of the PAF blk 52 order.

The radars are very new and require some time to clear the kinks before some Airforce adopts it (nobody wants to be the first ones running into all of the bugs);)
 
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The way I see it, APG-68V(9) will esnure that PAF gets the aircraft as per schedule. The AESA radars provide a migration/upgrade path for the same aircraft and other older blocks in the PAF service if the PAF decides that all F-16s should be upgraded to an AESA capability. BTW, I believe PAF and LM had discussions around the same AESA radars right around the time of the placement of the PAF blk 52 order.

The radars are very new and require some time to clear the kinks before some Airforce adopts it (nobody wants to be the first ones running into all of the bugs);)

Sir APG-68 V(9) is also comparatively new so assuming that an AESA radar can have bugs in it, the same could be applied to this new version of APG as well.:undecided:
 
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Sir APG-68 V(9) is also comparatively new so assuming that an AESA radar can have bugs in it, the same could be applied to this new version of APG as well.:undecided:

APG-68 V-9 are operational and a proven radar in IDAF F-16I, Greek new F-16, Chile, and i think Poland as well.. As Mike Gibbons said "the program manager for EA-18G" AESA radars are not full spectrum one, it lacks electronic attack capability! the new cheap F-16 AESA radar is probably going to be a crap one..
 
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US DELIVERS EDA JETS TO PAKISTAN


The United States Air Force (USAF) successfully delivered four excess defense article (EDA) F-16B aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force at Mushaf Air Base in Pakistan on June 28, 2008. Five USAF pilots ferried the aircraft from Hill Air Force Base.

This transfer represents another significant milestone in the U.S. security assistance relationship with Pakistan, which resumed subsequent to September 11. Since then, the United States has delivered a va­riety of equipment to Pakistan, including refurbished C-130E transports, refurbished P-3C surveillance aircraft, refur­bished Cobra helicopters, new Bell 412 helicopters and a num­ber of Harpoon missiles, Harris radios, AN/TPS-77 surveillance radars, night vision goggles and AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles.

The centerpiece of the secu­rity assistance relationship is, however, the F-16 program. For Pakistan, the F-16 is a symbol of national pride and although the program began in the 1980s, F-16s continue to hold a special place in the U.S. - ****­stani security relationship. The four EDA aircraft are part of a larger package of 14 aircraft. With the most recent delivery, the USAF has transferred eight aircraft to Pakistan. Another four EDA F-16 aircraft are scheduled to arrive in Pakistan on 28 July 2008. The final two aircraft are part of the Pakistan Mid-Life Update program and will arrive in Pakistan in De­cember 2011. The entire F-16 program for Pakistan includes the purchase of eighteen F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft, MLU for 46 aircraft, and a munitions package that includes AM­RAAM, JDAM, and Enhanced Paveway guidance kits.

As with any EDA program of this complexity, em­ployees at DSCA contributed directly to the success of this program. DSCA country program personnel developed ****­stan’s request when the Pakistan Air Force first broached the topic. Other personnel worked through the Congressional notification process by explaining the effort to the Oversight Committees on the Hill. All invested the time and energy necessary to allow this program to succeed
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The senior U.S. representative at the ceremony was Mr. Peter Bodde, who is the Deputy Chief of Mission at the Ameri­can Embassy in Islamabad. Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, the Deputy Chief of the Air Staff (Operations), represented the Pakistan Air Force. Bodde acknowledged the hard work of the USAF that allowed the delivery to succeed and both he and Air Marshall Rao Qamar commented on the significance of this delivery to the ongoing security relationship between the United States and Pakistan. DSCA's Country Program Director for Pakistan attended the delivery ceremony.

DSCA Home
 
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5c407a604fff2bca8efa25ce4f2991ab.jpg


Role Multi-mode radar
Band X-band (6.2 to 10.9 GHz)
MTBF 400 hours
Search range (air-to-air, fighter target) 265 km 160 nm
 
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APG-68 V-9 are operational and a proven radar in IDAF F-16I, Greek new F-16, Chile, and i think Poland as well.. As Mike Gibbons said "the program manager for EA-18G" AESA radars are not full spectrum one, it lacks electronic attack capability! the new cheap F-16 AESA radar is probably going to be a crap one..

If what you are saying is true then the world would not be turning towards an AESA radar.
 
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If what you are saying is true then the world would not be turning towards an AESA radar.

IceCold, I think he is referring to the new radar 'RACR' in comparison to APG80.

@ 23March, As I understands the new radar is not cheap infect the cost of its integration is less (owing to its design) as compare to APG80 which will require design modifications either in radar or F-16 or both, and it is common sense that design modification for one customer can raise the perunit cost and since the contract is already closed with certain technical specifications in such senario LM will be paying the costs to meet the technical specifications and PAF is content as long AESA is integrated.

I would not doubt on the performance of the radar without any established facts.
It seems new RADAR is custom built for the F-16 retrofit market, which is huge.

There is some confusion over the number of PAF MLUs are they 46 or 30?
 
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Technically speaking, Congress was notified of plans to sell 60 MLU kits. The actual purchase may be for the same number or less. A lot of the discussions here and elsewhere are based on the DSCA disclosures which only state what the Congress has been notified to permit. By the time the DSCA disclosures come about, the approval is already in place. So now PAF has to get enough decent air frames to put them through the MLU with the USC allowing up to 60 MLU kits. In the end, PAF may go for all 60 kits (meaning that it has 60 F-16s available) or less.
 
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Technically speaking, Congress was notified of plans to sell 60 MLU kits. The actual purchase may be for the same number or less. A lot of the discussions here and elsewhere are based on the DSCA disclosures which only state what the Congress has been notified to permit. By the time the DSCA disclosures come about, the approval is already in place. So now PAF has to get enough decent air frames to put them through the MLU with the USC allowing up to 60 MLU kits. In the end, PAF may go for all 60 kits (meaning that it has 60 F-16s available) or less.

i agree - all 60 MLU kits will be used.
 
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Plan Would Use Antiterror Aid on Pakistani Jets

By ERIC SCHMITT
Published: July 24, 2008

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration plans to shift nearly $230 million in aid to Pakistan from counterterrorism programs to upgrading that country’s aging F-16 attack planes, which Pakistan prizes more for their contribution to its military rivalry with India than for fighting insurgents along its Afghan border.

Some members of Congress have greeted the proposal with dismay and anger, and may block the move. Lawmakers and their aides say that F-16s do not help the counterterrorism campaign and defy the administration’s urgings that Pakistan increase pressure on fighters of Al Qaeda and the Taliban in its tribal areas.

The timing of the action caught lawmakers off guard, prompting some of them to suspect that the deal was meant to curry favor with the new Pakistani prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, who will meet with President Bush in Washington next week, and to ease tensions over the 11 members of the Pakistani paramilitary forces killed in an American airstrike along the Afghan border last month.

The financing for the F-16s would represent more than two-thirds of the $300 million that Pakistan will receive this year in American military financing for equipment and training.

Last year, Congress specified that those funds be used for law enforcement or counterterrorism. Pakistan’s military has rarely used its current fleet of F-16s, which were built in the 1980s, for close-air support of counterterrorism missions, largely because the risks of civilian casualties would inflame anti-government sentiments in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas.

State Department officials say the upgrades would greatly enhance the F-16s’ ability to strike insurgents accurately, while reducing the risk to civilians. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because Congress was weighing the plan, said the timing was driven by deadlines of the American contractor, Lockheed Martin.

Having the United States pay for the upgrades instead of Pakistan would also free up cash that Pakistan’s government could use to help offset rising fuel and food costs, which have contributed to an economic crisis there, the State Department officials said.

Under the original plan sent to Congress in April, the administration intended to use up to $226.5 million of the aid to refurbish two of Pakistan’s P-3 maritime patrol planes, buy it new airfield navigation aids and overhaul its troubled fleet of Cobra attack helicopters. The State Department notified Congress last week that the administration had changed its mind and would apply the funds to the F-16s.

Lawmakers immediately bridled at the shift, questioning whether the counterterrorism money could be spent more effectively. “We need to know if this is the best way to help Pakistan combat Al Qaeda and the Taliban,” Senator Patrick J. Leahy, a Vermont Democrat who heads the appropriations subcommittee on State Department and foreign operations, said in a statement.

Representative Nita M. Lowey, a New York Democrat who heads the House appropriations subcommittee on foreign operations, said in a statement, “It is incumbent on the State Department and Pakistan to demonstrate clearly how these F-16s would be used to fight Al Qaeda and the Taliban in order to get Congressional support.”

In a two-page notification to Congress, the State Department said that upgrading the avionics, targeting and radar systems of Pakistan’s older F-16s would “increase the survivability of the aircraft in a hostile environment” and make the “F-16s a more valuable counterterrorism asset that operates safely during day and night operations.” The notification said the modernized systems would also increase the accuracy of the F-16s’ support of Pakistani ground troops, lessening the risks of civilian casualties.

Many Congressional officials remain unconvinced. “Using F-16s this way is like hitting a fly with a sledgehammer,” said one senior Senate Democratic aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the current negotiations. It remains unclear whether any lawmaker will block or postpone the financing, and risk harming relations with Pakistan any further.

Even if approved, the upgraded F-16s would not be available until 2011, said one House aide who had been briefed on the issue, and who spoke on condition of anonymity, raising the question whether the funds could be spent on counterterrorism equipment that could be employed more quickly.

Pakistan agreed to buy about 70 F-16s in the 1980s, and about 40 were delivered before Congress cut off all aid and military sales in 1990, citing Pakistan’s secret development of nuclear weapons.

A new deal was struck after the Sept. 11 attacks to allow Pakistan to buy newer models, in part to reward Pakistan’s cooperation in fighting terrorism. In 2006, Pakistan was a major recipient of American arms sales, including the $1.4 billion purchase of up to 36 new F-16C/D fighter aircraft and $640 million in missiles and bombs. The deal included a package for $891 million in upgrades for Pakistan’s older F-16s.

At that time, the United States agreed to use $108 million of its annual security aid to Pakistan to retrofit the older F-16s with equipment to make them comparable to the newer models that will be delivered in the next several years. But the administration promised Congress that the Pakistani government would pay for the rest of the upgrades with its own funds. With Pakistan now facing economic hardships, top Pakistani leaders appealed to senior State Department officials to help defray the costs of the ongoing upgrades.

The debate over the F-16 financing comes at a time when Congress has grown increasingly frustrated with the administration’s Pakistan policy, arguing it has been weighted too heavily on security assistance. The United States has given more than $10 billion in military aid to Pakistan since the Sept. 11 attacks, when President Pervez Musharraf agreed to become an ally in the campaign against terrorism. Of that amount, $5.5 billion was specifically intended to reimburse the counterinsurgency efforts by the Pakistani Army, but Congressional auditors have said that Pakistan did not spend much of that money on counterinsurgency.

Senior administration officials, including top military officers, are also voicing increasing exasperation with Pakistan’s efforts to combat militants in the mountainous region along the border with Afghanistan. “We need Pakistan to put more pressure on that border,” Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said on “The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer” on PBS on Tuesday.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/world ... ref=slogin
 
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This New AESA for F-16 shall become hot cake for all the F-16 Users... Increases the punch in F-16 by many folds!
 
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Part of US aid to be used for F-16 up gradation
Updated at: 1210 PST, Thursday, July 24, 2008

NEW YORK: The Bush administration plans to shift nearly $230 million in aid to Pakistan from counterterrorism programs to upgrading that country's aging F-16 fighter planes.

According to a report appearing in the New York Times, the State Department officials insist the plan will greatly enhance the F-16s’ ability to strike insurgents in FATA and tribal areas.

The officials said Congress is weighing the plan. The aid was sanctioned for the up gradation of two P3 petrol planes and Cobra helicopters.

Part of US aid to be used for F-16 up gradation
 
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U.S. wants counterterror funds for Pakistan F-16s

By Anne Gearan, AP Diplomatic Writer
Thu Jul 24, 2008

WASHINGTON - The State Department wants to use about two-thirds of its proposed military equipment aid for Pakistan's anti-terrorism programs to help the key U.S. ally upgrade its aging fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter planes.

The planes traditionally have not been used in anti-terrorism operations, and Pakistan sees the planes as a chit in its arms race against rival India. Congress must approve the switch, which was requested days before Pakistan's new prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, is due to meet President Bush at the White House.

The Bush administration is feeling its way in its dealings with Pakistan's new leaders, who are friendly to the U.S. but far less closely allied than the formerly supreme leader, President Pervez Musharraf. Musharraf retains his post but with less authority. The prime minister's government has struck proposed partnerships with tribal leaders in the volatile terror-breeding ground along the Afghan border that make U.S. officials nervous.

The request to Congress late last week would allow the key U.S. ally to purchase equipment to upgrade existing planes so that they have similar capabilities to equipment the Bush administration is already selling to Pakistan. The $226 million would come from an allotment already approved for other Pakistan anti-terror operations.

The previous request would have upgraded P3-C aircraft, which often are used in surveillance operations, and modernize AH-IF Cobra helicopters. The helicopter work still would be done using different funding, a State Department official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because discussions with Congress are still preliminary.

Switching the money to fix up F-16s would represent a change in the purpose for more than two-thirds of the $300 million that Pakistan will receive this year in U.S. military underwriting for Pakistan's equipment and training. Congress has required that the training and equipment money be spent for law enforcement or to fight terrorism.

F-16s are something of a badge of honor for Pakistan, and a sore point in the history of the U.S. relations with the Muslim nation.

The Bush administration approved the sale of 18 new jets last year. The package included an option for Pakistan to order more jets and to get used aircraft refurbished.

Pakistan signed a deal with Washington to buy the F-16s in the late 1980s, but the agreement was scrapped in the 1990s when the U.S. government imposed sanctions on Islamabad over its nuclear weapons program.

Although Washington lifted the sanctions because of Islamabad's support for the U.S. war on terror, the sale of the F-16s had remained on hold and some lawmakers have continued to criticize the deal, arguing the planes are more likely to be used in a war with India than against terrorists.

U.S. assistance and other payments to Pakistan have totaled $9.6 billion in the six budget years since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, according to the State Department.

The largest payout each year is for what the Bush administration calls "reimbursements" for Pakistan's help in fighting terrorism. Under that program, Pakistan submits claims — such as its costs for providing observations posts along the Afghan border or its costs for taking part in joint operations with the U.S. against al-Qaida.

The reimbursements amount to some $80 million a month or nearly $1 billion a year.

On top of those payments, the U.S. also gives Pakistan direct aid for humanitarian programs, economic development, military needs and so on — well over $700 million in each of the last two years.

US wants to shift $226 million on Pakistan money - Yahoo! News
 
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A F-16 aircraft from the Pakistan Air Force fires an air-to-air live missile at its target during the Missile Firing Camp 2007 exercise at the PAF firing range near Karachi April 16, 2007.
 
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