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F-16 Block 15MLU/50/52 Fighter

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Not having DRFM means that while flying the F-16 over enemy territory, in case the craft is subjected to electronic jamming by the opposing air force, the F-16 is unable to record these jamming signals and direct them at the enemy in real time as it is flying over them. The solution to this is effective ELINT missions flown by other platforms like the Erieye and existing DA-20 Falcons that can pick up the signatures of the various emitters on the other side.

The challenge is to be able to record the signatures effectively and then use them during hostilities without getting them identified as peacetime signatures (all airforces use different frequencies during peace and wartimes when emitting from their radar sources).

So not having a DRFM would require PAF to rely on existing library of threat signatures/emitters that IAF would typically use. I am oversimplifying this EW piece..there is a whole lot more to it (you can easily google it). However despite that, the EW hardware on the F-16s is very effective (ALQ-131 in service with our existing F-16s is still widely used by NATO Airforces). So I think DRFM is a "nice to have" but its not an essential for the conduct of missions.

Besides I am assuming that most of the F-16's will have Link 16. Which has storage
which retains info from all other units operating Link 16. Therefore eliminating the need for DFRM
 
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incorrect. Link 16 is not used for sharing ECCM data. It is purely for radar data which can be heard as small burst on the high frequency radios... Up to 4 F16's can share full data and other planes can be linked or interlinked...

There is a need og hige spectrum to share ECCM data in real time... Even a small UAV uses big part of the UHF frequency when transmitting realtime data and is nothing compared to ECCM...
 
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Besides I am assuming that most of the F-16's will have Link 16. Which has storage
which retains info from all other units operating Link 16. Therefore eliminating the need for DFRM

As Munir said, Link16 is good for getting a comprehensive picture up in the air (so its excellent for situational awareness). For Electronic Warfare (blinding or jamming the ability of the other side to see the incoming packages), you need a robust ECM and ECCM capability. DRFM essentially "cloaks" the inbound aircraft as they are able to store and resend in real time the signatures of the other side's emitters while the aircraft are over hostile airspace.
 
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Hi i am Atif ( you can call me ATIF or ALI ok) ,


In 1983 PAF get the latest fighter F-16 to counter soviet invasion in AFGHANISTAN effectively . PAF has ordered about 77 – 79 F-16 to the US with the deal worth of unknown billions of dollars in 1989 but the F-16s didn't arrived yet they just give us the palm oil instead of F-16. Most of the people in PAF always said that those falcons were banned by US just because of nuclear program but the government could negotiate with US in such a way that they could give back PAFs F-16 and now in late 2005 the US has allowed PAF to buy 72 F-16 from them with parts manufacturing facility and may be over-haulin which can save it more than $20 mn per year which is very savy hahahaha.
ACCORDING TO JANE'S DEFENCE NEWS :
On April 12, 2006 the Government of Pakistan approved the purchase of Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 52+ and F-16A/B Block 15. The revised F-16 purchase includes the acquisition of 26 ex-Peace Gate-III and IV F-16A/B Block-15OCUs and 18 F-16C/D Block-52s with an option for 18 more; the purchase was finalized between the PAF and Lockheed Martin in October 2006. The total value of the F-16 package is 5.101bn U.S Dollars - if all options are excersized; the deal includes 500 AIM-120C5 BVRAAMs, 200 AIM-9M-8/9 WVRAAMs, 500 JDAM PGMs, and thousands of other air-to-surface bombs. Although the AIM-9X was not procured, the International Defence Exhibition & Seminar (IDEAS) at Karachi in 2006 revealed that the Pakistan Air Force was interested in the European IRIS-T for its F-16 WVR requirement. In addition to the 18 new built F-16C/D Block-52+ aircraft, the 60 F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft will go through the Mid-Life-Update - III upgrade (MLU-3); this would make the F-16A/Bs avionically on par with the Block 52+. Janes Defence Weekly reported that the Pakistan Air Force may order a second phase of 33 new-built F-16C/D Block 52+. Originally up to 75 F-16C/D Block-52 were supposed to be procured other than the order of 36-40 F-10 and also according to the PAF Air Chief, additional F-10 are planned. The FC-20 will likely become the core of the PAF's fleet as a multi-role fighter, replacing the Mirage ROSE III/V and F-7PG by 2019 I supposed along with some people that they may reach upto 126+ F-10 in near future may be in 2018 because in some chinese newspapers they are rumours that PAF has ordered another 40 or 50 F-10 but doesn't disclose it yet ; however the tragic and catastrophic earthquake in Azad Kashmir forced the Pakistan Government to delay acquisition of F-16s. With the Kashmir relief operations draining the government's funds - the Defense Ministry was considering a significantly down-scaled F-16 order. It is likely however that the PAF will procure 26 F-16A/Bs MLU-3 to start retiring its F-7Ps also additional F-16s are planned from third parties like Venezuela which is retiring its 24 F-16s due to sanctions which would go through similar upgrade MLU-3 standard . I think that PAF may find customers of F-7Ps as it has upgraded its avionics in kamra by making a HUD (Head up display) to carryout precision strike through LGB(Laser guided Weapons) which is quite amazing you can see the video of it through video section , none of these kind of jets can do it other then bison and PGs .
http://www.defence.pk/Aircraft_Inventory/
If you do some maths you can figure it out that US has allowed 72 F-16's of which 26 are used ones and 18 are newly brand BLK-52 with an option of about 18+ jets , lets just add the nos. 26+18 = 44 and minus the nos. with 72-44 = 28 and in above statement it is said that may be 33+ BLK-52 so you can imagine how much the deal could extend but it would take time to come to PAK.


ok take care of your selfs. BYE
 
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As Munir said, Link16 is good for getting a comprehensive picture up in the air (so its excellent for situational awareness). For Electronic Warfare (blinding or jamming the ability of the other side to see the incoming packages), you need a robust ECM and ECCM capability. DRFM essentially "cloaks" the inbound aircraft as they are able to store and resend in real time the signatures of the other side's emitters while the aircraft are over hostile airspace.

But the ones we are getting if i'm not mistaken DRFM is missing from them. But people on other forum are of an opinion that under the umbrella of an AWACS the need for DRFM is eliminated. I personaly disaggree with it because even if so what will the jet do when it enters hostile area, lacking DFRM will be like flying blind. Do you think it will effect the offensive capability?
One more thing that i come to learn there on Defence talk, actually a very senior person stated that, US doesnt really informs the congress all about what pakistan is getting on those F-16s to avoid hulla huppa from congress and India, and many systems can be provided from back channel, So they were of an opinion that we will get DRFM. What do you think is it possible?
 
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1) That is true? US offered to Pakistan replace its F16 blk 15s order to better F16 blk 40/42 aircrafts. because blk 15 .f16 are using with its naval & other main agressive training.
& they have no alternative for blk15 f16 so new offer is blk40/42 f16 without HARM capability
2) PAF looking new JSF based JF-17 thunder Changing after 50 current jf17 we looking its new shape and designe .major area are change with tail saction .two internal missile launcher bay in fuselage + more other change
 
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Hi -- I am Irfan and have greate enthusiest of military aviation,,,,,

hi.. Asif Bhei --- how are you...

Above all reveal is truth ,,, but this more surprise for all that PAF is looking for AESA radar (APG -80) for its Block 52+... this is as same moder as UAE block 60 radar...

the reason is, Poland, Greeck are facing problems with APG 68 (9) and Israel already refused it, with block 52+ and are using its own radar, which is more batter than this radar. rightnow, I won't go any detail but will inform you later with complete details of this problems and issue..

there are no option remained for pakistan that only to acqurie block 50+ with APG -80 AESA radar. that will be a gaint leap for PAF, if USA agree to sell this radar... Athough our MLU project has started with APG 68 (9) and nowaday 9 aircrafts is going on MLU process in Turkey along with PAF engineers and techincians.
 

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Thanks for the update guys.

The rumors are true that after 2009 or so, there could be major change in JF-17 and it will have an AESA radar. The major change has a design more like in the above pictures.
 
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Thanks for the update guys.

The rumors are true that after 2009 or so, there could be major change in JF-17 and it will have an AESA radar. The major change has a design more like in the above pictures.

Rear chance Webby that US will give AESA to Pakistan since this is the Radar used on F-18 and makes it withh Par to SU-30 in real combat. The APG -80 is by far even better than the SU-30 radar and is the only radar in the world with such characteristics.

I hope PAF gets it but i think will not.

As for the JF-17, AESA from Chinese in league with US or Russian radar is far away. Europian AESA shall be available if Pakistan trades more defence items with France as before. For design changes, i donot know what major change in the Air Frame is possible but its not a thing you can change before prototype testing and all. Since the design will get frozen for few batches, it seems that some parallel testing and simulation works on design will go on to enhance the existing design.
 
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But the ones we are getting if i'm not mistaken DRFM is missing from them. But people on other forum are of an opinion that under the umbrella of an AWACS the need for DRFM is eliminated. I personaly disaggree with it because even if so what will the jet do when it enters hostile area, lacking DFRM will be like flying blind. Do you think it will effect the offensive capability?
One more thing that i come to learn there on Defence talk, actually a very senior person stated that, US doesnt really informs the congress all about what pakistan is getting on those F-16s to avoid hulla huppa from congress and India, and many systems can be provided from back channel, So they were of an opinion that we will get DRFM. What do you think is it possible?

DRFM is an excellent capability to be had in the absence of ELINT aircraft. It (DRFM) is also a component that can be retrofitted on the aircraft and multiple suppliers exist.

For Pakistan, the DRFM issue [due to its classification as an asset used in Offensive Air Ops] was a fight not necessary on the Capitol Hill with so much other stuff like AIM-120s and the blk52s getting through.

Aside from this, the Erieye platform has a very decent capability in the area of storing RF captures while snooping and carrying out surveillance.

Even without DRFM, the aircraft can conduct missions. DRFM provides a bit more flexibility in terms of real time playback.
 
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Rear chance Webby that US will give AESA to Pakistan since this is the Radar used on F-18 and makes it withh Par to SU-30 in real combat. The APG -80 is by far even better than the SU-30 radar and is the only radar in the world with such characteristics.

I hope PAF gets it but i think will not.

As for the JF-17, AESA from Chinese in league with US or Russian radar is far away. Europian AESA shall be available if Pakistan trades more defence items with France as before. For design changes, i donot know what major change in the Air Frame is possible but its not a thing you can change before prototype testing and all. Since the design will get frozen for few batches, it seems that some parallel testing and simulation works on design will go on to enhance the existing design.


This is not true. US has told Pakistan that they can have whatever capability they want as long as we can foot the bill for it and its not an offensive capability that would raise serious eyebrows in the US.

APG-80 is something that is already in the hands of UAEAF. US would be forthcoming on supplying the same to PAF if the integration and cost issues can be worked out on block 52s for the PAF.

APG-80 supply to Pakistan has nothing to do with MKI and its capabilities. MKI does not even have an AESA radar right now. Range is one thing, but refresh rates and the # of tracks an entirely different thing.
 
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1) That is true? US offered to Pakistan replace its F16 blk 15s order to better F16 blk 40/42 aircrafts. because blk 15 .f16 are using with its naval & other main agressive training.
& they have no alternative for blk15 f16 so new offer is blk40/42 f16 without HARM capability
2) PAF looking new JSF based JF-17 thunder Changing after 50 current jf17 we looking its new shape and designe .major area are change with tail saction .two internal missile launcher bay in fuselage + more other change

On June 28/06, the US DSCA notified Congress via a series of releases of its intention to provide Pakistan with a $5.1 billion Foreign Military Sales package to upgrade the F-16s that serve as the PAF's top of the line fighters. Some of these items had been put on hold following the October 2005 earthquake in Pakistan & Kashmir, but the request for 36 new F-16 Block 50/52s is now going ahead following the required 30-day review period, along with new weapons, engine modifications, 60 F-16 upgrade kits that would cover Pakistan's older F-16 A/Bs plus other aircraft it might buy second-hand, and related equipment.

These items are detailed below… along with controversies the proposed sales created, and some of the conditions attached to the sale by the US government.

Item 1: 36 New F-16 Block 50/52s – $3 billion
Item 2: Weapons for the New F-16s – $650 Million
Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits – $1.3 billion
Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR – $151 Million

Deal Updates and Progress
Potential Controversies (July 5, 2006)

Item 1: 36 New F-16 Block 50/52s – $3 billion

Greek F-16 Block 50/52s
(click to view full)The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 36 F-16C Block 50 and F-16D Block 52 two-seater aircraft – other reports indicate a buy of 18 jets, with an option for another 18. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $3 billion.

While Pakistan's existing F-16s use the Pratt & Whitney F100 engine, the new planes will be equipped with either the Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 or General Electric's F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPEs). They will also be equipped with the APG-68(V)9 radars, which are the most modern F-16 radar except for the UAE's F-16E/F Block 60 "Desert Falcons" and their AN/APG-80 AESA.

The package for Pakistan's new F-16s also includes:

7 spare F100-PW-229 IPE or F110-GE-129 IPE engines
7 spare APG-68(V)9 radar sets
36 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
36 AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II
36 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs) that fit along the aircraft's sides to give them extra range
36 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals; DID has covered the tactical uses of MIDS-LVT Link 16 systems
36 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems
36 APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems
36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare (ALQ-211 AIDEW) Suites without Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM
1 Unit Level Trainer
Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability.
The principal contractors will be:

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Fort Worth, TX
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control, Dallas, TX
BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, NY
Boeing Corporation Seattle, WA
Boeing Integrated Defense Systems: St Louis, MO; Long Beach, CA; San Diego, CA
Raytheon Company: Lexington, MA; Goleta, CA
Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD
United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT; or
General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH
There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support and program management of the aircraft. See DSCA release [PDF format].

Item 2: Weapons for the New F-16s – $650 Million

To equip those new F-16s, the Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:

500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
12 AMRAAM training missiles – these have seeker warheads but lack engines
200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X.
240 LAU-129/A Launchers – these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles.
500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits
1,600 Enhanced Paveway GBU-12 (500 lb.) and GBU-24s (2,000 lb.) with dual laser/GPS guidance
800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs
700 BLU-109 2,000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse
Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability will also be provided.
The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $650 million. The principal contractors will be:

BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD
There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support, program management, and modification of the aircraft. See DSCA release [PDF format].

Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits – $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:

APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar, which is a much smaller improvement on earlier F-16s. The APG-68 with SAR is far better at air to ground work, and can be used to monitor ground activity.
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems
AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems
Have Quick I/II Radios
Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT)
SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability
Reconnaissance pod capability
Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (used for training exercises)
MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits
21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
1 Unit Level Trainer; and
10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets.
Radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

JHMCSThe total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $1.3 billion.

According to the US DSCA, Pakistan intends to purchase the MLU Program equipment "to enhance survivability, communications connectivity, and extend the useful life of its F-16A/B fighter aircraft. The modifications and upgrades in this proposed sale will permit Pakistan's F-16A/B squadron to operate safely, and enhance Pakistan's conventional deterrent capability. Pakistan's air fleet can readily use these updates to enhance and extend the life of its aircraft."

The principal contractors will be:

BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY
Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX
Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX
Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX
Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD
There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives. e

InsideDefense.com makes the interesting observation that Pakistan doesn't have 60 F-16s to upgrade. The clear implication is that the Pakistani government is interested in buying used F-16s from other countries and upgrading them.

Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR – $151 Million


F100 Engine TestThe third contract involves Engine Modifications and Falcon UP/STAR Structural Upgrades as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $151 million.

More specifically, the Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:

14 F100-PW-220E engines
14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits
De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft
Support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.
The principal contractors will be:

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX
United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT.
There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale, but implementation of the engine modifications and UP/STAR repairs will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support, program management, and modification of the aircraft. See DSCA release [PDF format].

Deal Updates and Progress

PAF F-16A
Dec 14/07: Raytheon Missile Systems of Tucson, AZ received a firm fixed price contract for $161.3 million. This action provides 300 miscellaneous unit air foil groups, 300 miscellaneous armament unit enhanced computer control groups, 1,298 weapon guidance unit computer control groups, 1,300 stabilizing and retarding unit air foil groups, 600 global positioning system adapter kits, 1 lot enhanced Paveway III and test equipment spares, 1 lot enhanced Paveway II, 700 certain adapter groups, 6 readiness test set, 6 bomb tool kits, 3 lots of enhanced Paveway tool sets, 3 each common munitions bit/reprogramming equipment adapter kits, 1 each mission planning software, 1 lot DATA. This effort supports foreign military sales to Pakistan. At this time $75.7 million has been obligated. The 784th Combat Sustainment Group (AFMC) at Hill Air Force Base, UT issued the contract (FA8213-08-C-0028).

Enhanced Paveways use a combination of laser and GPS/INS guidance. The laser designator offers better accuracy, and is compatible with targeting pods like Pakistan's forthcoming Sniper ATPs. GPS/INS benefits include the ability to function through fog, dust storms, clouds, smoke, or other obscurants, and can be employed in the absence of a laser designator as long as Global Positioning System coordinates are available for the target.

April 27/07: Pakistan orders 22 of Lockheed Martin's AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods under a $54.6 million firm-fixed-price contract. Since Raytheon's ATFLIR is only integrated with F/A-18s, and Northrop Grumman's LITENING AT is a joint development with Israel's RAFAEL, the choice is not surprising. Sniper pods have also been referred to as PANTERA pods in the past. See "Pakistan Joins List of Sniper ATP Customers" for more.

March 30/07: ITT Avionics in Clifton, NJ received a $78 million firm-fixed-price and time and materials contract for "Foreign Military Sales of the AN/ALQ-173 (V) advanced integrated defense electronics warfare to the country of Pakistan." Associated spares, support equipment, training, engineering services, flight test support and data are also being acquired. Solicitations began February 2007, negotiations were complete March 2007, and work will be complete January 2010. The Headquarters Warner Robins Air Logistics Center at Robins Air Force Base, GA issued the contract (FA8523-07-C-).

Oddly enough, the AN/ALQ-173 was not among the many ECM alternatives listed in the official US DSCA announcement. See below…

Dec 5/06: Lockheed Martin Corp. in Fort Worth, TX received a $144 million firm-fixed-price and time and materials contract for 12 operational single place F-16C Block 52 aircraft and 6 operational two place F-16D Block 52+ aircraft. This will begin readying materials to manufacture the aircraft. Aircraft purchases will be accomplished under the firm-fixed price portion of the contract, and $78.4 million has been obligated at this time. Work will be complete by November 2010. The Headquarters Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, OH issued the contract (FA8615-07-C-6031). See DID coverage.

Nov 17/06: Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ received a $269.6 million firm-fixed-price contract modification, exercising an option to purchase 500 AIM-120C5 AMRAAM missiles and rehost on behalf of Pakistan (100%). Work will be complete April 2011. The Headquarters Medium Range Missile System Group at Eglin Air Force Base, FL issued the contract (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00028).

Nov 15/06: Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems in Linthicum Heights, MD received half of a $99.5 million firm-fixed-price contract for "government furnished property for the Government of Pakistan" under the F-16 Block 50/52 new aircraft and modernization program. "The procurement of 54 AN/APG-68 (V)9 Radar Systems will be accomplished under the firm-fixed-price portion of the contract." A January 10, 2007 Northrop Grumman release clarifies: this order is for 52 systems (18 new + 34 upgrade kits), with a 44 radar option to follow (18 new + 26 upgrade kits). See complete DID coverage for details regarding the order and the radar.

Oct 2/06: India Defence reports that Pakistan and USA have signed a letter of acceptance for these deals, following a September 30, 2006 ceremony in Rawalpindi were Pakistan's military is headquartered. It said that the United States will supply 18 new F-16 aircraft, as well as an unspecified number of upgraded second-hand F-16s. Previous reports have said the number of second hand aircraft Pakistan was considering buying was 36, which would make for 18 of each.

India Defence adds that "Both sides had expected to wrap up the deal a month earlier, but negotiations dragged on because of strings Washington wanted attached." The USA has clear concerns regarding technology transfer from the F-16s or associated weapons it sells to 3rd countries like China, which has close military ties with Pakistan.While the US was reluctant to discuss details, Assistant Secretary of State for political-military affairs John Hillen was more open with Congress on July 20, 2006.

In his testimony to the House of Representatives' International Relations Committee, Hillen reportedely said that: the United States was withholding unspecified technologies "that would usually go with an F-16," including ones that would let it "be used in offensive ways to penetrate air space of another country that was highly defended". It added that Pakistan's F-16 fleet and its munitions would be segregated from aircraft supplied by other countries, so that unauthorized engineers could not get access to the U.S.-made planes, and that U.S. personnel would carry out inventories of the F-16s and their associated systems every 6 months. There had even been a proposal that F-16 flights outside Pakistani air space, including for exercises with other countries, would have to be approved by the U.S. government in advance. It is not clear whether this requirement ever got beyond the proposal stage.

July 20/06: Well, here's the first copncerned speech from an opposed Congressman: Eliot Engel [D-NY], citing Pakistan's support for terrorism in India. Mr Engel is a senior member of the House International Relations Committee, and was one of the first Members of Congress to come out in favour of the proposed India-US nuclear energy deal. He'll be making his views public at the July 20, 2006 House International Relations Committee hearing on the Pakistan sales – and that meeting will tell us if opposition to the deal has real traction.

Potential Controversies (July 5, 2006)


ISAF, S. Afghanistan
(click to view full)The DSCA has said that "Release of this system would not significantly reduce India's quantitative or qualitative military advantage." India disagrees, and military experts in Delhi will likely note that the same equipment (GPS, targeting pods, bunker-busters) that could potentially find uses against al-Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan's "lawless frontier" could also be used in precision strikes on India's military facilities in the event of war.

The DSCA counters that release of the F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft to Pakistan "will neither affect the regional balance of power nor introduce a new technology as this level of capability or higher already exists in other countries in the region." India does operate more advanced SU-30MKI aircraft with R-77 "AMRAAMski" missiles, advanced avionics, et. al.; these are superior in range, armament, and maneuverability to Pakistan's F-16s, and will remain so. Meanwhile, India's $7-10 billion MRCA competition is certain to introduce 125-200 aircraft that are certain to be more advanced than the F-16 Block 50/52.

The US DSCA adds in its submission to Congress that "The modification of the engines and Falcon UP/STAR structural updates will provide capable F-16's that can be used for close air support in ongoing operations contributing to the GWOT." The DSCA also cites the June 2004 designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization Ally in its submission. The British commander of NATO's ISAF force in Southern Afghanistan sees Pakistan's role in a rather different light, however; he recently noted that al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is still run out of Pakistan (specifically Quetta), with Pakistani knowledge and even support from Islamist elements in its security apparatus. Ah, the dynamics of counter-insurgency in tribal societies. Pakistan angrily denies this, of course.

India's objections to this sale have been muted thus far, and phrased carefully to emphasize their effect on India-Pakistan ties rather than India-US ties. Meanwhile, President Bush's personal diplomacy approach has fostered a strong relationship with Gen. Musharraf that is inclined to view such requests favourably as part of the USA's 3-corner balancing act in the region. Barring unusual circumstances, therefore, it's reasonable to expect this sale to go through with little more than a concerned speech or two in Congress.
 
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This is not true. US has told Pakistan that they can have whatever capability they want as long as we can foot the bill for it and its not an offensive capability that would raise serious eyebrows in the US.

APG-80 is something that is already in the hands of UAEAF. US would be forthcoming on supplying the same to PAF if the integration and cost issues can be worked out on block 52s for the PAF.

APG-80 supply to Pakistan has nothing to do with MKI and its capabilities. MKI does not even have an AESA radar right now. Range is one thing, but refresh rates and the # of tracks an entirely different thing.

I donot agree that US will give access to APG-80, only seeing is believing in this case brother.

True that Su-30 doesnt have AESA now but its PESA is the best thing in the world of Radars second only to APG-80 and APG-77 radars.
 
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I donot agree that US will give access to APG-80, only seeing is believing in this case brother.

True that Su-30 doesnt have AESA now but its PESA is the best thing in the world of Radars second only to APG-80 and APG-77 radars.



other then PESA, it has lot more other top notch attachments.
 
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