Eyewitness account of IAF Su30 Mki crash site.

[Gandhi G in da house]

Does exploding Amraam proves anything ?

No. Read your own Kaiser Tufail's account about the possibilities of the fate of the Amraam.

Think logically for a moment.

If a fighter jet is downed that too in a populated area, how long does it take for people to make a video clip and circulate it ? When Abhi's jet was downed, people in Pak immediately made video clips and circulated it. Similarly the Mi 17 which IAF downed itself, clips were made and circulated.

If an F 16 was downed in Pakistan, I am pretty certain it could not be hidden and someone somewhere would have found some evidence and would have shared it, similarly if a Su 30 was downed, someone on this side would have immediately shared a clip or some other evidence online.

Unless of course the planes fell in areas which were completely inaccessible to humans. Which I don't believe was the case in this dogfight.

A downed fighter jet is VERY difficult to hide in the age of technology in populated areas. This is why I believe that neither the claim of F 16 nor the claim of Su 30 is true.

 

[IndianGuy_]

Pakistans diplomacy and international support for Kashmir is stronger than it has ever been.

Pray tell me what is this strong diplomacy Pak has achieved? Also with regards to Kashmir. Imran Khan is more bothered about Turkey invasion than Kashmir issue

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Pray tell me what is this strong diplomacy Pak has achieved? Also with regards to Kashmir. Imran Khan is more bothered about Turkey invasion than Kashmir issue

Lets see the US has directly offered to mediate, something theyve never done before; and soon after they demanded a return to normalcy in Kashmir to the Indian govt. Turkey and Malaysia have spoken out about Kashmir at the UNGA for the first time ever; with other nations followed at the lower profile but still significant OIC. Saudi Arabia/USA and Iran have requested Pakistan mediate between them, therefore recognising that Pakistan is a significant power in the region that is capable of performing such a role. The future of Afghanistan and negotiations are in Pakistans hands meaning that NATO and other invested nations are looking towards Pakistan to secure peace on their behalf.

Kashmir is about to ignite, so theres nothing more to say on the matter. Just today Kashmiri fighters delibrately targeted civillians for the first time, so India has created hell for themeselves while Pakistan has crafted the narrative abroad that Kashmirs reaction is based on Indias fascist and racist government; completely destroying Indias retarded "Pakistan responsible for everything" belief which past governments did not properly confront.

 

[Flight of falcon]

This goes on diplomatic front while Kashmiris start to eliminate outsiders and to scare off any RSS bakth with balls enough to think about coming to Kashmir....

https://theprint.in/india/3-killed-south-kashmir-militants-attack-outsiders/306855/

 

[masterchief_mirza]

No. Read your own Kaiser Tufail's account about the possibilities of the fate of the Amraam.

Think logically for a moment.

If a fighter jet is downed that too in a populated area, how long does it take for people to make a video clip and circulate it ? When Abhi's jet was downed, people in Pak immediately made video clips and circulated it. Similarly the Mi 17 which IAF downed itself, clips were made and circulated.

If an F 16 was downed in Pakistan, I am pretty certain it could not be hidden and someone somewhere would have found some evidence and would have shared it, similarly if a Su 30 was downed, someone on this side would have immediately shared a clip or some other evidence online.

Unless of course the planes fell in areas which were completely inaccessible to humans. Which I don't believe was the case in this dogfight.

A downed fighter jet is VERY difficult to hide in the age of technology in populated areas. This is why I believe that neither the claim of F 16 nor the claim of Su 30 is true.

What you on about? You need to drop the confirmation bias. When did anyone say the su30 fell in a populated area? How long was your transport plane missing for in Assam a few months back?

As for your previous point regarding the burden of proof, we are trying to prove that an aircraft was seen damaged in Indian airspace. We don't need to prove it was Indian or an su30, because once we prove that a (fixed wing) aircraft was seen damaged in Indian airspace on that day, it cannot possibly be one of the other two aircraft that fell that day. It cannot be Nandu' s mig or the mi17. Therefore if we can prove a damaged fixed wing aircraft was seen inside Indian airspace, then it is automatically proven that India has hidden a wreckage. If India has hidden a wreckage on that day, later writing it off quietly as an accident, then you know your govt lied to you. The rest of the story becomes mere formality.

Multiple eye witness accounts corroborating each other is enough burden of proof in our courts for any number of crimes. Granted, I can't say these witnesses are independent of each other's influence though.

 

[Ashwasthama]

Pakistan has all the proofs of crashed Sukhoi 30 MKI in their own area accept the photo of crashed Sukhoi 30 . Since Sukhoi has special Technology which prevents Pakistan to take photographs of the crashed plane, It cannot take the photograph and publishing to media. Therefore they have to rely on interview of the people to prove their point. All are requested to believe make them feel good.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

What you on about? You need to drop the confirmation bias. When did anyone say the su30 fell in a populated area? How long was your transport plane missing for in Assam a few months back?

As for your previous point regarding the burden of proof, we are trying to prove that an aircraft was seen damaged in Indian airspace. We don't need to prove it was Indian or an su30, because once we prove that a (fixed wing) aircraft was seen damaged in Indian airspace on that day, it cannot possibly be one of the other two aircraft that fell that day. It cannot be Nandu' s mig or the mi17. Therefore if we can prove a damaged fixed wing aircraft was seen inside Indian airspace, then it is automatically proven that India has hidden a wreckage. If India has hidden a wreckage on that day, later writing it off quietly as an accident, then you know your govt lied to you. The rest of the story becomes mere formality.

Multiple eye witness accounts corroborating each other is enough burden of proof in our courts for any number of crimes. Granted, I can't say these witnesses are independent of each other's influence though.

Do you realise how difficult it is to prove that the damaged air craft was seen in the Indian air space or in the Pakistani air space when the location of all these events is right at the LoC ? Just a few kms apart as @silent_poison has shown.

How is it possible to tell from the naked eye by a guy standing on the ground very close to the LoC as to the plane is in Indian air space or Pakistani air space ? Even Abhinandan himself couldn't tell and entered into Pakistani air space mistakenly.

This is why this is purely circumstantial evidence at best even if it is corroborated by others on the ground. It is also very very unlikely that if the jet was shot down over the skies of a populated area, it would fall in a mountain or some such place. Therefore, it is not conclusive proof of anything. The transport jet was missing for many days because it crashed in an unpopulated mountainous region.

This jet was probably Abhi's jet only.

 

[PakGuns]

let's forget su 30... talk about another war trophy the mi 17 with 6 terrorists on board blown to hell...

 

[nomi007]

just after the dogfight

Indian cant hide their defeat

Any one can share this full program

 

[Dubious]

How much longer will an entire nation rejoice at the shooting down of a Mig 21 ? Are such victories so rare in your nation ?

Very sad . But not 1 question about PAF's performance for the last 20 years?

When an incident happens and india keeps denying for weeks to months....What do you call that?

And when even months later, some in india claim x but others claim y..what do you call that?

 

[Telescopic Sight]

When an incident happens and india keeps denying for weeks to months....What do you call that?

And when even months later, some in india claim x but others claim y..what do you call that?

And has PAF not denied the incidents of Feb 26th ? The claimed loss of an F16 the next day? How can an entire forum harp on 1 MIG 21 and forget the rest of the events ?

There is one particular member who posts some sentence about this Feb 27th incident each and every day...And followed by other members doing the same crap.

I know most of these folks were not even born back then, but please remember that every Pakistani death in the Kargil conflict ( Except for 2 officers ) are still buried in India, unclaimed by your Army. Soldiers numbering in their 1000's . Don't see anyone talking about that...

 

[Dubious]

I know most of these folks were not even born back then, but please remember that every Pakistani death in the Kargil conflict ( Except for 2 officers ) are still buried in India, unclaimed by your Army. Soldiers numbering in their 1000's . Don't see anyone talking about that...

I believe thread is not about that!

 

[Telescopic Sight]

I believe thread is not about that!

Of crouse you are correct.
My point was about the misplaced enthusiasm on 1 event , when 100 events have the exact opposite result. Ok , let these kids carry on.

Maybe once in a while they can ask themselves " what was the PAF doing since 10 August 1999 til Feb 27th 2019? Did the PAF sit quietly ....and choose to forget 16 Pakistanis ? "

 

[sohailbarki]

I believe thread is not about that!

And has PAF not denied the incidents of Feb 26th ? The claimed loss of an F16 the next day? How can an entire forum harp on 1 MIG 21 and forget the rest of the events ?

There is one particular member who posts some sentence about this Feb 27th incident each and every day...And followed by other members doing the same crap.

I know most of these folks were not even born back then, but please remember that every Pakistani death in the Kargil conflict ( Except for 2 officers ) are still buried in India, unclaimed by your Army. Soldiers numbering in their 1000's . Don't see anyone talking about that...

Soliders in thousands, you must be joking. Where did you get these numbers from. Pakistan did not even deployed thousands in Kargil. It was mostly few companies from NLI.

 

[The Eagle]

Those who think that it was actually Abhinandan MiG-21 and not the other IAF plane, may have the marriage of convenience at the moment but shall also look at the crash site of Abhinandan MiG-21 and the Indian eyewitness pointing towards area.... there is hell of distance between both sites however, it will hurt the ego of many to ask right questions from Indian Establishment and why such witnesses were never shown on TV instead, videos are taken down. So, at least don't accept Modi brigade discussing the eyewitness rather will create more & more of diversions.