Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

[The Accountant]

other than that i agree .Its commercial deal unless you have FMS package type which in our case is not

Why do you think its commercial deal? the aircraft life is 30 years, in which the buyer is dependent on the seller both in terms of upgrades and spares. For example, F14 tomcat of Iran become toothless after Irani revolution.

Another example could be Russia. As of now Russian tech is much more reliable than China as they have decades of experience but same cannot be said about China. However, in long terms Quality of Chinese weaponry and upgrades are becoming better and better, even at a pace faster than USA. So on paper Russian Su series is much better but strategically J10 can be a better platform judging from the pace of new capabilities being acquired by J10.

Another example could be Ukraine. Ukraine, tanks or strategic lift aircraft are one of the best in terms of value for money but they are having difficulties in getting orders due to question over their ability to provide spares in future.

So its a strategic decision as cost of buying aircraft is usually a very small portion of aircraft life cycle cost and therefore reliability of relationship and capacity of supplier to provide spares and upgrades is really important.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Austin Powers and @Trango Towers you must stop your arguments . I have removed your personal fight over the issue of Russia selling not selling. dont make it main subject matter of this thread please and dont degrade each other.

 

[nahtanbob]

Honestly, if Russia really wants to play loggerheads, just swap out the Klimov engine for the latest WS-13 variant. The only reason Russia is even still supplying engines to the JF-17 is more of a political reason (i.e. assisting Klimov and sending a message to India) rather than a technical reason. Besides, the WS-13 is already powering all FC-31 prototypes so it can definitely be fitted on the JF-17 without performance compromises (except maybe some on reliability because the RD-93 is a very mature engine).

it is more like china does not want to share its shitty engine technology with pakistan

 

[Figaro]

it is more like china does not want to share its shitty engine technology with pakistan

The Chinese WS-10 series already has better reliability than the entire Russian AL-31 series ... there has never been a single WS-10 induced crash in any of the Chinese flankers while there have been numerous flanker crashes throughout the world (just ask India about the Su-30MKI) due to the AL-31F engine.

 

[nahtanbob]

The Chinese WS-10 series already has better reliability than the entire Russian AL-31 series ... there has never been a single WS-10 induced crash in any of the Chinese flankers while there have been numerous flanker crashes throughout the world (just ask India about the Su-30MKI) due to the AL-31F engine.

you need to fly to crash. Russians have exported hundreds of aircraft with AL-31F engines
even your closest customer Pakistani air force chooses unreliable Russian engines

 

[Figaro]

you need to fly to crash. Russians have exported hundreds of aircraft with AL-31F engines
even your closest customer Pakistani air force chooses unreliable Russian engines

Just look at all the Su-30MKI crashes ... the Indians blame their terrible serviceability rates entirely on the engine itself. The Chinese also had issues with the AL-31 in both the J-10 and the Chinese flankers, which is why they completely swapped them out for the WS-10.

With regards to the RD-93, its reliability has always been better than the AL-31, which makes sense because it is much less complex and powerful. You could swap for the Chinese equivalent, the WS-13, but its maturity is not as good as the RD-93 simply because it has very limited use in the Chinese air force. The WS-10 managed to iron out all the reliability problems because it was put into widespread use and with this, problems were much more easily fixed. The RD-93, like the WS-10, has been placed in hundreds of aircraft ranging from the Mig 29 to the JF-17, which means the engine is also very mature.

 

[nahtanbob]

Just look at all the Su-30MKI crashes ... the Indians blame their terrible serviceability rates entirely on the engine itself. The Chinese also had issues with the AL-31 in both the J-10 and the Chinese flankers, which is why they completely swapped them out for the WS-10.

With regards to the RD-93, its reliability has always been better than the AL-31, which makes sense because it is much less complex and powerful. You could swap for the Chinese equivalent, the WS-13, but its maturity is not as good as the RD-93 simply because it has very limited use in the Chinese air force. The WS-10 managed to iron out all the reliability problems because it was put into widespread use and with this, problems were much more easily fixed. The RD-93, like the WS-10, has been placed in hundreds of aircraft ranging from the Mig 29 to the JF-17, which means the engine is also very mature.

I never said the AL-31 reliability is great. at this point russian engine tech is still ahead of china's

 

[Trango Towers]

@Austin Powers and @Trango Towers you must stop your arguments . I have removed your personal fight over the issue of Russia selling not selling. dont make it main subject matter of this thread please and dont degrade each other.

There was a personal fight????
I had no idea I was fighting with this young man?
Oh well

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

without an engine planes do not fly

Without $400 billion Chinese investment in Russian gas, Russia wouldn't survive Western sanctions.

Do you seriously think Russia is in a position to dictate China on engines for the JF-17 Thunder exports?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Russia would gladly supply both sides with weapons. They will sell more Su-30s to Armenia and more rd-93s for Azeri JF-17s. Why would they pick one over the other when they can make money from both.
No reason to bring in merits or demerits of Chinese engines either because again why would Russia give up a share of it's already dwindling markets over to the Chinese.

 

[nahtanbob]

Without $400 billion Chinese investment in Russian gas, Russia wouldn't survive Western sanctions.

Do you seriously think Russia is in a position to dictate China on engines for the JF-17 Thunder exports?

it is obvious you need a math tutorial. they have been 20 JF-17 aircraft sales outside of pakistan with $600 million in revenues. What is China going to do ? Cut off $400 billion in investment for few hundred million in JF-17 sales

 

[Shabi1]

JF-17 uses Russian engine. Russian won't allow JF-17 to be exported to Azerbaijan which is at odds with Armenia which is backed by Russia.

Russia doesn't sell to Pakistan directly. The orders for RD-93s are made by China and delivered to Pakistan. And even if engine is blocked Azerbaijan can opt for WS-13 equipped Thunders.

 

[khanasifm]

Russia doesn't sell to Pakistan directly. The orders for RD-93s are made by China and delivered to Pakistan. And even if engine is blocked Azerbaijan can opt for WS-13 equipped Thunders.

It was in news long time ago at least 4/5 years China is no longer middle man and Pac /pak importing Rd directly from russsia

Your info is way out of Date

 

[ziaulislam]

Just look at all the Su-30MKI crashes ... the Indians blame their terrible serviceability rates entirely on the engine itself. The Chinese also had issues with the AL-31 in both the J-10 and the Chinese flankers, which is why they completely swapped them out for the WS-10.

With regards to the RD-93, its reliability has always been better than the AL-31, which makes sense because it is much less complex and powerful. You could swap for the Chinese equivalent, the WS-13, but its maturity is not as good as the RD-93 simply because it has very limited use in the Chinese air force. The WS-10 managed to iron out all the reliability problems because it was put into widespread use and with this, problems were much more easily fixed. The RD-93, like the WS-10, has been placed in hundreds of aircraft ranging from the Mig 29 to the JF-17, which means the engine is also very mature.

You are arguing with a ....well you
Got what i mean

 

[Beast]

Azerbaijan and armenia are both allies of Russia. Russia will sell weapon to whoever can come up with funds.