Expensive Pakistani Habbits , for a Economically Poor nation

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistanis don’t want to give their taxes to corrupt people. That is a very valid concern. Why give taxes to people you know are going to waste that money on themselves?

That is not how the affairs of state are run you get chance to vote , and you must value your vote

After your vote , the next step is Taxation if their is problem with your views on Government then time to select is during election , not at Taxation time


The Robinhood syndrome about Taxation has to end , that will not pay tax if I suspect the government will not use them wisely

 

[American Pakistani]

in what sense is their decision making worse than an educated person ?
"roti kapra makan" - food clothing shelter. it sounds like majority have their priorities straight

Yes, roti kapra makan no matter how they get, even if it means to vote someone in return of a plate of biryani and coke. Educated people too make worst decisions, don't try to twist my words and out of context. If you honestly want more info abt Pakistan, ahead and Google it.

Pakistanis don’t want to give their taxes to corrupt people. That is a very valid concern. Why give taxes to people you know are going to waste that money on themselves?

I see your point, but 2 wrongs doesn't make a right. Paying taxes is by law, if people disobey it then that means anarchy and chaos. Rather pay your taxes and vote the right candidate. If there is corruption, there is a legal way to take action, as it is going on right now.

This is my opinion, except medicines or critical medical equipments, no other item should be given subsidy, especially for residential consumers. There should be few breaks for new business but even for old and established business, they should be able to pay for any imported item.

 

[nahtanbob]

Yes, roti kapra makan no matter how they get, even if it means to vote someone in return of a plate of biryani and coke. Educated people too make worst decisions, don't try to twist my words and out of context. If you honestly want more info abt Pakistan, ahead and Google it.

you are asking folks to make sacrifices. it works only if folks understand what is the end goal

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Roti , Kapra aur Makan is a bullshit motto for a loser mentality
We are not here to just give minimum poverty level benefits


Pakistan needs to Lead others in Areas of Agriculture, Science and Population Control

Majority of Pakistan's Woes are self created and can be fixable if the People in power are given a context of the Errors and mistakes , the Big Picture


1) Taxation is our #1 Issue , what initiatives are launched on Emergency basis we have 5 years to fix this problem

2) We have issue related to Food and Nutrition , what do we do with our surplus dry food can we preserve it and save it in a food bank for storage for emergency ?

3) Trade Unbalance
Imports : 40 billion
Exports : 20 Billion

• 55% is Fuel / LNG / Other Fuel products figures are high due to Motor Cycle culture

1,000 Buses can transport 160,000 Passengers in 3 hour cycle between 6 am -9 am
vs 160,000 motor bikes needing to be individually filled with Petrol , this scenario can be duplicated in 40 cities of Pakistan and our fuel demand will go down with 100% ban on Motor cycles

4) Efficiency of our State Assets

• Shipping Corporation
• Steeles Corporation
• Pakistan International Airlines
• Pakistan Railways
• Pakistan Stleeles Mills

5) ROBUST JUSTICE SYSTEM

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

Taxation System should be based on water fall model not the other way around.
Just like old days slogans of PTI over decades that says accountability begins from the Top. Then Why can't taxation from the top. One way "Gormint" is giving subsidy to sugar mill owners and some other industrialists to incease the exports. & other way those big chunk gaps are filled by taxing common man. ( Rayri wala. Dhaby wala. School peon. Sabzi wala. Etc)
Effecting all. Now if you see break down of electricity bills , Gas bills and salaries of OGDC employees. There is huge Turmoil within the network.
Law reforms that need majority in the senate is gona hang in the air.
Lafafa group ppp and pmln & some snakes in the sleeves of PTI.

we are thinking hard to propose idea of taxation for recovery of eco.
Meanwhile have a look at FBR report of income tax paid by politicians including Khan.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/333870-who-paid-how-much-taxes

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Very Simple , Taxation does not means , taxing few people

We are nation of 200,000,000 people , so taxing mere 1,000 or 2,000 people who are deemed rich is not proper

The correct implementation is Tax all people up to age 18 who earn income


Every Pakistani has a sense of Robin Hood Justice , where they feel they are robbing from the Rich and Evil and giving to poor by not paying Taxes.

In their Head the Tax Evaders think they are some sort of Robin Hood , criminals , who are stealing from Rich politicians of Pakistan and giving it to Charities by their own hands , they have to spoon feed the poor with their own hand in order to feel the satisfaction , Taxes are otherwise Haram to these people

In the end , Pakistanis not Paying Taxes is what is killing our Development


Pakistan's problem is not due to some Powerful Israel Lobby
Pakistan's issue is not the Indian master mind , mogembo preventing taxation
Pakistan's issue is not USA not giving us Aid


It is our own damn public who think they are some kind of Heros , by not Paying Taxes they are rebellious Heros when they don't pay tax and boast it openly that they are Tax evaders

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

I dont mean to be devils advocate here.
The point of siding those mass majority of illiterates and jobless degree holders who are without direction and skills.
They have no say in our society.
The economical theories sound amazing on paper.
But on ground reality level
There are so much loop holes.
I would like to give a hint of Software Crisis of 60s.
Majority of programs designed were upgraded by using patching
So in the end those patches led programs complexity and needed twice time and cost for patching.
Hence it was concluded to Bin those programs. & Re-Build it in less time and with cost efficiency. Our economical crisis is same i can relate to sw crisis of 60s.
Where patches are not going to fix the issues in the long run.
System is outdated.
People are over thinking on its revival using patches.
Only person who has compassion for poor untill now is Khan himself in his speeches atleast.
Rest all the middle class
They lose compassion for the less privileged lower class in majority.
Think twice.
We are all the same. Pointing others without considering ourselves to be the first.

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

Very Simple , Taxation does not means , taxing few people

We are nation of 200,000,000 people , so taxing mere 1,000 or 2,000 people who are deemed rich is not proper

The correct implementation is Tax all people up to age 18 who earn income


Every Pakistani has a sense of Robin Hood Justice , where they feel they are robbing from the Rich and Evil and giving to poor by not paying Taxes.

In their Head the Tax Evaders think they are some sort of Robin Hood , criminals , who are stealing from Rich politicians of Pakistan and giving it to Charities by their own hands , they have to spoon feed the poor with their own hand in order to feel the satisfaction , Taxes are otherwise Haram to these people

In the end , Pakistanis not Paying Taxes is what is killing our Development


Pakistan's problem is not due to some Powerful Israel Lobby
Pakistan's issue is not the Indian master mind , mogembo preventing taxation
Pakistan's issue is not USA not giving us Aid


It is our own damn public who think they are some kind of Heros , by not Paying Taxes they are rebellious Heros when they don't pay tax and boast it openly that they are Tax evaders

0-14 years: 31.36% (male 33,005,623/female 31,265,463)
15-24 years: 21.14% (male 22,337,897/female 20,980,455)
25-54 years: 37.45% (male 39,846,417/female 36,907,683)
55-64 years: 5.57% (male 5,739,817/female 5,669,495)
65 years and over: 4.48% (male 4,261,917/female 4,910,094)

Layman's term 37.64% of population are earners

Approx 75,280,000.00

Out of these 50,000,000 earn less than 100$ a month.

20,000,000 earn less than 200$ a month.

4.5 million earns around 300-400$ a month.

Now you are left with 500,000 population.

Sum of Top Ten Rich is more than 20 Billion USD $

How much to be taxed? Why dont we apply Zakat Formula as given in Islam.
rather than 16% of GST and still Gov not happy at all.

Remind me of Khans Tweet
There are 8-9 million Pakistanis Overseas
If each of them donate 1000$
We will have enough money for the Dam.

But here is REALITY CHECK.

 

[Abdussamad]

If you pay taxes the money will go towards generals' housing schemes, imported weaponry and wasteful projects like these. If you can avoid taxes it is better to do so. It is in fact one of the only two benefits of living in Pakistan. The other being the relatively low cost of living.

As for the government it should learn to live within its means. It should make better use of the taxes it already raises and prove to us that it is worth paying taxes.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If you pay taxes the money will go towards generals' housing schemes, imported weaponry and wasteful projects like these. If you can avoid taxes it is better to do so. It is in fact one of the only two benefits of living in Pakistan. The other being the relatively low cost of living.

As for the government it should learn to live within its means. It should make better use of the taxes it already raises and prove to us that it is worth paying taxes.

The basic premise of having a state is everybody pays for it. If you don't pay taxes effectively you are not acknowledging that state and thus amounts to financial treason. You are in fact a traitor. The entire supposition of belonging to something vanishes replaced by chaos.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

0-14 years: 31.36% (male 33,005,623/female 31,265,463)
15-24 years: 21.14% (male 22,337,897/female 20,980,455)
25-54 years: 37.45% (male 39,846,417/female 36,907,683)
55-64 years: 5.57% (male 5,739,817/female 5,669,495)
65 years and over: 4.48% (male 4,261,917/female 4,910,094)

Layman's term 37.64% of population are earners

Approx 75,280,000.00

Out of these 50,000,000 earn less than 100$ a month.

20,000,000 earn less than 200$ a month.

4.5 million earns around 300-400$ a month.

Now you are left with 500,000 population.

Sum of Top Ten Rich is more than 20 Billion USD $

How much to be taxed? Why dont we apply Zakat Formula as given in Islam.
rather than 16% of GST and still Gov not happy at all.

Remind me of Khans Tweet
There are 8-9 million Pakistanis Overseas
If each of them donate 1000$
We will have enough money for the Dam.

But here is REALITY CHECK.

Lets respond to your post

• In Pakistan their is a trend to keep the Property in Wife or Children's name in case you did not see what Nawaz Sharif did recently
• FBR won't ask 5 year old children about their money account or why they have 5 crore in their name in Banks
• Famales own property worth 50 Lakh to 1 Crore easily
• Jahez main Maan Baap give 20-30 Lakh to new couple or more
• Children like Bilawal / Asifa / Mariyam Nawaz , are born with silver spoon in mouth
• Money & wealth easily transfers between father /mother and children when they are not 18 year old
• Lot of women work in Pakistan in formal jobs
• Lot of women do local neighborhood jobs (Baby sitting , other community work for money)

15-24 years: 21.14% (male 22,337,897/female 20,980,455)
25-54 years: 37.45% (male 39,846,417/female 36,907,683)
55-64 years: 5.57% (male 5,739,817/female 5,669,495)
65 years and over: 4.48% (male 4,261,917/female 4,910,094)



If you eat , roti and murgh musalam , and Tikka and shikka , you need to pay taxes on that stuff

If you run a unregistered / or registered business and don't pay tax instead you build 1 more story above your home and rent it out .... then you owe Taxes on that Property Expansion and then you Owe Taxes on the income you are hiding from renting out 1 story of your home to renters


Source:
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/pakistan/annual-household-income-per-capita


You stated in Pakistan people earn $100 per month or $200 per month however the
worlds stats sites indicate average income to be around $650 per person

World Bank's Stats on Pakistan
https://data.worldbank.org/country/pakistan

Pakistan's Top news paper reporting , Average income in Pakistan
https://tribune.com.pk/story/889024/per-capita-income-a-pakistani-now-makes-1513-a-year/

https://www.payscale.com/research/PK/Country=Pakistan/Salary

Other high paying Professions :

• Doctors 80,000 Rupee per month to Over Lakh rupee per month
• Dentist
• Pharmacist
• Resturant Owners
• Lawyers
• Judges of various levels of courts
• Executives in Company , notice , the salary I qouted were for ground level workers
• Managers in companies
• Senior Bank officials
• Professors (Schools, Universities , Colleges , Private Tuition)

Our Lawyer Hazrat (80,000 rupee to over Lakh rupee per month depending on big fish hat needs a bail )

Can all lawyers gather and file some Taxes with FBR with same Josh ??? as they did when NRO was done in 2008

 

[R Wing]

http://www.worldstopexports.com/pakistans-top-10-imports/
* Note these figures were from 2016 when dollar was around $80 for 1 rupee

TEA
Pakistanis Drink Too Much Tea—Imports Increased By 3.19 Percent. According to statistics Pakistan has imported Tea worth $491 million in the last 11 months form July, 2016 to May, 2017 to meet the current rising demand of Tea in the country

More rupees now are needed to import same amount


Mineral Fuel:
Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
Was expecting it to be just 5 billion , isn't 17 Billion a bit high ????
When we live next to Iran cheap oil source !!! Come on people come on!!!

Computers:
Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)

Electric Machinery:
Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)

Raw Items:
Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)

Organic Chemicals
Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)

Vehicles & Automobile
Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%) [Killing our state bank foreign reserves]

Plastics
Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%) [Ban Plastic Bottles and Bags !!!]

Animals / Vegetable Oil
Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%) what??????


Oil Seeds:
Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)

Cotton:
Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)
Come on man we are agricultural country we are importing cotton for 1.3 Billion wtf


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Immediate Avoidable Items

** Ban Cotton Import -----------------------------------: Save 1.3 Billion Dollars
** Ban Vegetable/Animal Fat , use local animal fat----: Save 2.1 Billion Dollars
** Ban Automobile Import------------------------------: Save 2.6 Billion Dollars
** Ban Plastic Imports ----------------------------------:Save 2.5 Billion Dollars
** Reduce Oil Imports by 50% -------------------------:Save 8.0 Billion Dollars


We can save almost 15 Billion dollar from our Books by just , banning stuff we don't need!!!

No need to ban --- just tax 500%.

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

Lets respond to your post

• In Pakistan their is a trend to keep the Property in Wife or Children's name in case you did not see what Nawaz Sharif did recently
• Famales own property worth 50 Lakh to 1 Crore easily
• Jahez main Maan Baap give 20-30 Lakh to new couple or more
• Children like Bilawal / Asifa / Mariyam Nawaz , are born with silver spoon in mouth
• Money & wealth easily transfers between father /mother and children when they are not 18 year old
• Lot of women work in Pakistan in formal jobs
• Lot of women do local neighborhood jobs (Baby sitting , other community work for money)

15-24 years: 21.14% (male 22,337,897/female 20,980,455)
25-54 years: 37.45% (male 39,846,417/female 36,907,683)
55-64 years: 5.57% (male 5,739,817/female 5,669,495)
65 years and over: 4.48% (male 4,261,917/female 4,910,094)



If you eat , roti and murgh musalam , and Tikka and shikka , you need to pay taxes on that stuff

If you run a unregistered / or registered business and don't pay tax instead you build 1 more story above your home and rent it out .... then you owe Taxes on that Property Expansion and then you Owe Taxes on the income you are hiding from renting out 1 story of your home to renters


Source:
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/pakistan/annual-household-income-per-capita


You stated in Pakistan people earn $100 per month or $200 per month however the
worlds stats sites indicate average income to be around $650 per person

View attachment 553303

World Bank's Stats on Pakistan
https://data.worldbank.org/country/pakistan
View attachment 553304

I respect your views to some extent
The screen Shot from website
No where says 650$ per month.
The second screen shot is more credible in 2018 thats apprx 1500$ a year.
I stated the figers giving laymans
WHY( TO save prestige)
Actual figers are way worse
Where 20% of population lives 1.25$ a day.
On average i did count women in it in population.
Right now at work.
I digress futher.
Your mass conflict is stuck with middle and lower middle class.
I can sense that.
You cannot cope with diversity in taxation there are more than 37 types of taxation. Pre done by Gov.
Many of them at by default.
So if i earn 20k i dnt need to pay tax
As my ends meet is 20k
Within i abide taxation from each product i buy. From soap to lentis and from mobile phone bill to electricity.
& regarding Tikka ( no comments)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

World Bank is a professional institute they know how to determine prices and ranges
I personally also thinking 1200-1500USD is realistic figure now in pakistan as every one has cell phone and car or motor bike

If you earn 20,000 Rupee per month you still pay tax but less, or you get 2 Jobs

If Person A makes , 90,000 Rupee per month
Person B Makes 20,000 Rupee per month


Person A is due more Taxes vs Person B , it is common sense



Pakistan Class Structure

Lowest class

• Labourers (transport bags , or lift stuff)
• Garderners
• Cleaners
• Farmers with no land ownerships who do labor work
• Shop keepers with no shop they walk with goods
  
• Resturant workers
• Bus conductors

Lower class

• People who do labor work from home
• Small businesses with no registration , they do work for local small companies
• People who do assembling jobs from home

Lower Upper class

• Shop keepers with a physical shop
• Small shops
• New graduates from University and schools
• Textile mills workers
• Drivers who transport goods or run private bus

Middle Class

• Working in Jobs with 1-3 year experience 55,000-60,000 rupee monthly salaries
• People who work with 4-5 year experience , 65,000 rupee month income
• Government Job workers with Perks /Pension
• People who moved to Middle east and they send back remittance

Upper Class

90,000 Rupee per month to 2 Lakh Rupee per month

• Doctors / Dentist / Lawyers / Judges / Politicians / Real Estate Realtors
• Franchise Owners
• Civil Engineers (5+ years)
• Chemical Engineers (5+ years)
• Electrical Engineers (5+ years)
• Managers in Company
• Active Sports Personality
• TV /Movie Artist/Models

Elite Class

Salary in Carore's +

• Factory Owner
• Farm Land owner 1 Acre to 10,000 Acre own-age
• Bank Owners
• Investment firm Owner
• Owner of Hotel Chains
• Owner of restaurant Chains
• Owners of Shipping Corporations
• Owners of Steels Mills (Private)
• Textile Mills owner
• People who own Private Airline Companies
• People who own Inter City Bus travels
• Transport business owners
• Manufacturing business owners

FBR should be collecting Taxes from at Least 100,000,000 (100 million) Pakistanis
Can't point finger at poor laborers only and stop tax collection from Middle class and over


Large cash reserves being found by FBR or NAB after investigation of property should be confiscated for no money trail

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

What is wrong to take emergency measures when our economy is close to collapse. We need to put ban on unecessary items.
Also we need to reduce population.
Goverment should take initiative , start campaign to reduce population . This is becoming timing bomb and we have not such programs & campaigns to reduce population. We can resolve half of problem due to this.
Green Pakistan ,tree tsunami project is great initiative. It will not take much time to brings fruits . It will reduce pollution problem , floods , we can use woods for multiple purpose.