EXIM bank announces loan for Orange Line effective

[Muhammad Omar]

It establishes the fact that baseless propaganda by political opponents against Orange Line carries no weightage at all ... It also renews Chinese Government's relationship of trust & confidence with Govt and the people of Punjab ... People are fully aware that whoever is speaking against Public welfare projects, is actually insulting them...

 

[WAJsal]

I hope the amount is enough and that Punjab government doesn't divert funds from any other project.
Govt admits diverting energy project fund to OMT
Do they seriously think people are as dumb as they think they are? Loan is not enough, costs have gone up, thus the diversion. What was the point of making Metro bus if you were going to make a train after two years, no planning, paisey urra commission khao. Moving on, not an underground project-if you are going to invest so much money why not make things properly.
"Anyhow, Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah, while delivering his windup speech over the general debate on OMT in the Punjab Assembly (PA), assured that his government would give the funds back after some time without closing any ongoing development scheme in the province."

The government will give the funds back, made my day.
@notorious_eagle ,@Jazzbot , don't know if i should feel excited or sorry for Lahoris. I wonder what will happen to historical sights, guys do clarify.

 

[notorious_eagle]

The government will give the funds back, made my day.
@notorious_eagle ,@Jazzbot , don't know if i should feel excited or sorry for Lahoris. I wonder what will happen to historical sights, guys do clarify.

Ruined unfortunately, they could have used newer technology to minimize the impact but that would take longer time, so they are now using brute force to build this Project and ruining many historical monuments in my beloved Lahore. This is why you're seeing such a push back from the Civil Society. This is making my blood boil, to earn some quick bucks in corruption they are ruining the history of Lahore.

Second, i doubt it if all the money will be given back as this Project is riddled with corruption like Metro Buses. The break even cost per ticket is Rs160, and the Government will be selling each ticket for Rs20. Thus, Punjab Government will have to subsidize that cost instead of spending that money on other human development projects.

 

[Attock]

Ruined unfortunately, they could have used newer technology to minimize the impact but that would take longer time, so they are now using brute force to build this Project and ruining many historical monuments in my beloved Lahore. This is why you're seeing such a push back from the Civil Society. This is making my blood boil, to earn some quick bucks in corruption they are ruining the history of Lahore.

Second, i doubt it if all the money will be given back as this Project is riddled with corruption like Metro Buses. The break even cost per ticket is Rs160, and the Government will be selling each ticket for Rs20. Thus, Punjab Government will have to subsidize that cost instead of spending that money on other human development projects.

The break-even price of Rs 160. Where did you get this figure from?

Ruined unfortunately, they could have used newer technology to minimize the impact but that would take longer time, so they are now using brute force to build this Project and ruining many historical monuments in my beloved Lahore. This is why you're seeing such a push back from the Civil Society. This is making my blood boil, to earn some quick bucks in corruption they are ruining the history of Lahore.

Second, i doubt it if all the money will be given back as this Project is riddled with corruption like Metro Buses. The break even cost per ticket is Rs160, and the Government will be selling each ticket for Rs20. Thus, Punjab Government will have to subsidize that cost instead of spending that money on other human development projects.

If I take your figure of Rs 160 it mean around Rs 17.50 billion per year of expenses based on 300,000 commuters. I mean are you sure you are quoting the right amount as the ongoing expenses are wages and loan interest with occasional maintenance which I really doubt will add up to 17.50 Billion per year.

 

[notorious_eagle]

The break-even price of Rs 160. Where did you get this figure from?

If I take your figure of Rs 160 it mean around Rs 17.50 billion per year of expenses based on 300,000 commuters. I mean are you sure you are quoting the right amount as the ongoing expenses are wages and loan interest with occasional maintenance which I really doubt will add up to 17.50 Billion per year.

BR Research attempted to find the projects operational feasibility and came up with a break even fare per passenger at Rs171 as compared to Rs65 for MBS. By keeping the ticket at same price of that of metro bus (Rs20), annual subsidy of train system will be a whopping Rs14 billion in todays value. On the other hand, government is spending mere Rs2-2.5 billion per year on metro bus from its pocket.

http://www.awaztoday.tv/News_Is-Orange-Line-worth-the-cost_1_62330_Political-News.aspx

After plowing such colossal costs, they can't possibly expect to sell the Tickets for Rs20 and not handout massive subsidies.

The break-even price of Rs 160. Where did you get this figure from?

If I take your figure of Rs 160 it mean around Rs 17.50 billion per year of expenses based on 300,000 commuters. I mean are you sure you are quoting the right amount as the ongoing expenses are wages and loan interest with occasional maintenance which I really doubt will add up to 17.50 Billion per year.

BR Research attempted to find the projects operational feasibility and came up with a break even fare per passenger at Rs171 as compared to Rs65 for MBS. By keeping the ticket at same price of that of metro bus (Rs20), annual subsidy of train system will be a whopping Rs14 billion in todays value. On the other hand, government is spending mere Rs2-2.5 billion per year on metro bus from its pocket.

http://www.awaztoday.tv/News_Is-Orange-Line-worth-the-cost_1_62330_Political-News.aspx

After plowing such colossal costs, they can't possibly expect to sell the Tickets for Rs20 and not handout massive subsidies.

 

[Attock]

BR Research attempted to find the projects operational feasibility and came up with a break even fare per passenger at Rs171 as compared to Rs65 for MBS. By keeping the ticket at same price of that of metro bus (Rs20), annual subsidy of train system will be a whopping Rs14 billion in todays value. On the other hand, government is spending mere Rs2-2.5 billion per year on metro bus from its pocket.

Is Orange Line worth the cost?

After plowing such colossal costs, they can't possibly expect to sell the Tickets for Rs20 and not handout massive subsidies.



BR Research attempted to find the projects operational feasibility and came up with a break even fare per passenger at Rs171 as compared to Rs65 for MBS. By keeping the ticket at same price of that of metro bus (Rs20), annual subsidy of train system will be a whopping Rs14 billion in todays value. On the other hand, government is spending mere Rs2-2.5 billion per year on metro bus from its pocket.

Is Orange Line worth the cost?

After plowing such colossal costs, they can't possibly expect to sell the Tickets for Rs20 and not handout massive subsidies.

I was looking for a break down of the expenses to be able to calculate a break even of Rs 160. You have not provided that break-down. Now the formula for break even is Fixed Costs/Contribution per unit. Contribution is ticket price - all the variable costs to make that ticket sales.

Based on the above formula we can easy work out the break even provided you give some break down of fixed and variable costs if you have one. If not then please do your research before spreading what I would say unreliable information.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I was looking for a break down of the expenses to be able to calculate a break even of Rs 160. You have not provided that break-down. Now the formula for break even is Fixed Costs/Contribution per unit. Contribution is ticket price - all the variable costs to make that ticket sales.

Based on the above formula we can easy work out the break even provided you give some break down of fixed and variable costs if you have one. If not then please do your research before spreading what I would say unreliable information.

Well that is all the information we have considering there is no transparency in this Project, but if you think this information is unreliable why don't you be a doll and find us the exact figures?

Do you honestly think the Government can break even at Rs20, considering the fact that the Government will be paying interest of around 6% on a massive loan of Rs160 billion. I am not even talking about the infrastructure upkeep and all the other costs that are part of the costs.

 

[Attock]

Well that is all the information we have considering there is no transparency in this Project, but if you think this information is unreliable why don't you be a doll and find us the exact figures?

Do you honestly think the Government can break even at Rs20, considering the fact that the Government will be paying interest of around 6% on a massive loan of Rs160 billion. I am not even talking about the infrastructure upkeep and all the other costs that are part of the costs.

I told you mate. 160*300,000*365 = Rs 17.52 billion does not make sense for expenses for one year. Your claim does not even stand the basic calculation logic test. You are claiming the break even to be Rs 160 not me so it is your responsibility to provide the figures. If you can't then admit your fault of just passing on information without thinking.

You are just plucking the interest rate from air. Where did you get the 6 % interest figure from? Just to remind you there is no repayment for the first 7 years.

 

[Tameem]

Lahore after Completion of Orange Line Train Project

 

[notorious_eagle]

I told you mate. 160*300,000*365 = Rs 17.52 billion does not make sense for expenses for one year. Your claim does not even stand the basic calculation logic test. You are claiming the break even to be Rs 160 not me so it is your responsibility to provide the figures. If you can't then admit your fault of just passing on information without thinking.

You are just plucking the interest rate from air. Where did you get the 6 % interest figure from? Just to remind you there is no repayment for the first 7 years.

I am giving you whatever is being quoted in the News, i even gave you a source while you're yet to provide any source what so ever proving that the Project will Break Even at Rs20. Its obvious that you're living in Lala Land, that a ticket a of Rs20 will break even a Project of this Amount. You must be kidding yourself if the Project will Self Finance itself and the Punjab Government will not have to provide any subsidy what so ever.

The reason why there is so much uncertainty and we can't get any proper documents in regards to the cost is because the Punjab Government is showing no transparency what so ever.

 

[Attock]

I am giving you whatever is being quoted in the News, i even gave you a source while you're yet to provide any source what so ever proving that the Project will Break Even at Rs20. Its obvious that you're living in Lala Land, that a ticket a of Rs20 will break even a Project of this Amount. You must be kidding yourself if the Project will Self Finance itself and the Punjab Government will not have to provide any subsidy what so ever.

The reason why there is so much uncertainty and we can't get any proper documents in regards to the cost is because the Punjab Government is showing no transparency what so ever.

Well your closing para is really funny. You are saying that there is so much uncertainty because of lack of documents and yet you came up with a break even figure of Rs 160.

PS: I did not say break even is Rs 20. As per my rough calculation it would be around Rs 50.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well your closing para is really funny. You are saying that there is so much uncertainty because of lack of documents and yet you came up with a break even figure of Rs 160.

PS: I did not say break even is Rs 20. As per my rough calculation it would be around Rs 50.

I quoted it from a newspaper , at-least bother to read it first.

 

[v9s]

I quoted it from a newspaper , at-least bother to read it first.

It's best if the calculations are done yourself rather than relying on figures quoted in a news article. Most of the time, the figures are wrong.

Anyway, please correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm under the impression that there are no mass-transit projects in the world that aren't subsidized.

 

[Edevelop]

I hope the amount is enough and that Punjab government doesn't divert funds from any other project.
Govt admits diverting energy project fund to OMT
Do they seriously think people are as dumb as they think they are? Loan is not enough, costs have gone up, thus the diversion. What was the point of making Metro bus if you were going to make a train after two years, no planning, paisey urra commission khao. Moving on, not an underground project-if you are going to invest so much money why not make things properly.
"Anyhow, Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah, while delivering his windup speech over the general debate on OMT in the Punjab Assembly (PA), assured that his government would give the funds back after some time without closing any ongoing development scheme in the province."

The government will give the funds back, made my day.
@notorious_eagle ,@Jazzbot , don't know if i should feel excited or sorry for Lahoris. I wonder what will happen to historical sights, guys do clarify.

Ruined unfortunately, they could have used newer technology to minimize the impact but that would take longer time, so they are now using brute force to build this Project and ruining many historical monuments in my beloved Lahore. This is why you're seeing such a push back from the Civil Society. This is making my blood boil, to earn some quick bucks in corruption they are ruining the history of Lahore.

Second, i doubt it if all the money will be given back as this Project is riddled with corruption like Metro Buses. The break even cost per ticket is Rs160, and the Government will be selling each ticket for Rs20. Thus, Punjab Government will have to subsidize that cost instead of spending that money on other human development projects.

Historical sites is a concern and I share that. However, lets be honest and take everyone on board on this.

Our native Hindus and Sikhs were much more cultured and successful in shaping the city. After partition, or after the arrival of Muslims particularly from outside Lahore, the city no longer became 'city of gardens' and 'city of traditions'. The 50s and 60s were perhaps the most devastating and destructive eras ever as it introduced modernism one that is against native architecture and concrete as a material for construction. People either razed their heritage down on their own to make room for plazas or let others occupy them illegally.

The Governments on the other hand have obviously neglected to restore some of the sites still standing or take actions against those who took part of destruction. Unfortunately things which don't win votes have no value to them.

That Civil Society is pure topi drama and here is why I say this. They live in Defence Housing societies and Bahria Towns which was originally Lahore's most prime agriculture land that fed everyone and among them there is a class which once lived in the old city and upon getting rich they moved out. So the next time someone mentions their name they should know their hypocrisy

A few opposition political parties joining these fake environmentalists and conservationists makes them look more stupid than Government. Despite poor planing, Government has its intentions right. Public transit for a city of 12 million people is a must and long overdue. Even countries like Ethopia, North Korea, Panama, Ecuador, Georgia, Uzbekistan etc are ahead of us.

A city like London, now same population as Lahore, got its Train system in the 1800s when there was poverty. Look now how important role it is playing for their economy from mobility to job creations. Everyone looks at it now and says they are glad it got built.

Unfortunately some people are short minded and they look at short term costs rather than what it would pay off in the future. Subsidies on these projects are healthy as it serves the masses directly and its quite common throughout the world. Where we spend tens of billions on importing automobiles and subsiding gasoline, what is wrong in spending a single billion on a project that will meet eco friendly environment ?

This is the age where we start paying serious attention to world climate change plans which will save many lives. Hundreds of thousands have died in China and India due to pollution in the last few years. This should explain how vital it is for us to take steps of our own to avoid going down this path.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Well your closing para is really funny. You are saying that there is so much uncertainty because of lack of documents and yet you came up with a break even figure of Rs 160.

PS: I did not say break even is Rs 20. As per my rough calculation it would be around Rs 50.

Here you go:

Capital suggestion

Cost: The government of Punjab is spending Rs162 billion for the transportation of 250,000 residents of Lahore. Question: How much is Rs162 billion? Answer: Rs162 billion for 250,000 passengers amounts to Rs650,000 per passenger. For the record, Mehran VX sells for Rs630,000 and, in effect, the government of Punjab could have bought a Mehran VX for each and every passenger.

Question: How much is Rs162 billion? Answer: Punjab’s population stands at 101 million and the government of Punjab spends a total of Rs59 billion on education and Rs54 billion on health services. Every resident of Punjab will now be taking on an additional Chinese debt of Rs1,600. For the record, the government of Punjab spends Rs600 on a per capita basis on education and Rs500 on a per capita basis on health.

Question: How much is Rs162 billion? Every three out of four residents of Punjab do not have access to clean drinking water. Amazingly, Budget 2015-16 allocated a mere Rs12 billion for the water supply of 101 million residents of Punjab.

Question: How about the Orange Line’s financial viability? Answer: The estimated breakeven is Rs175 per ticket. At Rs20 a ticket, the Orange Line will lose Rs40 million a day or Rs14 billion a year (operation and maintenance is estimated at around Rs4 billion a year).

Question: What about the debt payment to the Chinese? Answer: The debt payment of interest and principal is estimated at around Rs30 million a day or Rs10 billion a year (assuming that the Chinese loan is concessional in nature).

Question: How much is Rs162 billion? Answer: On a per kilometre basis it converts to Rs6 billion a kilometre – the most expensive of its kind on the face of the planet (the cost of the Lahore Metro Bus was Rs1 billion a kilometre).

Question: How much is Rs162 billion? Answer: The Shaukat Khanum Memorial Cancer Hospital and Research Centre – comprising outpatient clinics, chemotherapy facility and an inpatient unit – is going to cost Rs4 billion. With Rs162 billion, the government of Punjab could have built 41 such hospitals (Punjab has 36 districts).

For the record, 47 percent of school-age children in Punjab are out-of-school. According to The Citizens Foundation, the cost of building a primary school is Rs17 million. With Rs162 billion, the government of Punjab can build 10,000 good quality primary schools; nearly 300 new schools in each and every one of Punjab’s 36 districts.

For the record, there are 2.9 million school-age children in Punjab who are out-of-school. According to The Citizens Foundation, the yearly cost of educating a child is Rs15,000. The yearly cost of educating all of the 2.9 million will be Rs44 billion.

Someone intelligent once said, “Things which matter most must never be at the mercy of things which matter least.”

The Orange Line | Opinion | thenews.com.pk