Exercise Garuda begins in France

[KEETARP]

Sri

Mayawi will go on-board IsAF f-35 and InAF LCAmk2 + Su30mki . It is not a part of LCAmk1 or MKI currently .

Currently work-sharing is 60:40 btw DARE lab Banglore : ELBIT system Israel .

Advantages are many fold
Firstly the DAS1 ( Defensive aid suite one) on LCA and current MKi is Federated and not an integrated one .
- First thing that MAYAWI brings is Integrated DAS
- CMDS will be tightly coupled with TMS core computer
- Mayawi will have its own SPJ in contrast to discrete EL/8222 jammer, EL82222 which is not part of DAS of LCA or MKI
- Currently both LCA and MKI lack ELS , MKI currently carries SIVA pod for Emitter location and subsequently guidance to KH31-P missile . Not sure what such system is on-board LCA to give SEAD/DEAD capability
- Mayawi in addition will add
LWS
MAWS
TAD
Mki currently lacks both Missile approach warning system and Towed Active Decoy

Angle of Attack: Mayavi Electronic Warfare System

This is only little bit of information available about Mayawi , specs and operating freq, range all are classified .

 

[anathema]

But once integration of Mayawi coupled with powerful TMS(Threat management system) occurs it will provide sensor fusion like Rafale . And when MKI gets fully digital cockpit coupled with Indian ODL ( operational data-link)
then only true potential of Network-centric MKI can be realized . There is much more that can be packed in Mki space volume than what it carries now

Prateek can you explain a bit more -- the bold part ? Are we integrating Mayavi with Su 30 ? Also how will Mayavi help in a 360 degree situational awareness ? What is TMS ? Are we putting that in Su 30 ?

 

[KEETARP]

Anathema
Basically TMS will have input from LWS,RWR,ELS and will identify/prioritize the threat as per their threat capability algorithms and a display on main screen will be generated , further CMDS will be employed to neutralize it . That is in short TMS
This tactical battle-field picture will be shared between other Jets covering a wide range of area , so each air-craft will know about whole battle-field picture .
Can't tell about 360 coverage , but yes situational awareness will improve for a individual jet .

When will all this system go on board Su30 depends when MKI is decided to go for MLU , and Mayawi will be ready in two years for LCA mk2 . Lets see when MOD decides to go for MLU

 

[gowthamraj]

LT.PRATEEK sir.


Is our mirage upgrade have spectra electric warfare system

 

[flanker143]

Is our mirage upgrade have spectra electric warfare system

as far as i know...... no ........

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Threads merged

 

[sancho]

Now that the thread is not deleted anymore I can answer you.

Thanks for the article Sancho ,

But the two articles definitely have some mistakes
One -

The bold part is not true , MKI never used TV in exercise .
That is info what I have

Yes and the first article is stating that too:

As expected, the advantage of "dry" proved their power and maneuverability, although the Indian pilots did not come to use of vector thrust

Second about Rafale , i have my doubts
Rafale never had a single face-off with MKI and for that matter F16 during whole exercise . ( Dassault's press release)
Exactly why there is no mention of RBE2 vs BARS and maneuverability of rafale v flanker .
Writer dosen't fail to highlight SPECTRA but not a single on-board EW sensor was allowed during exercise .
We have enough pics from exercise but not a single Rafale pic on runway or in the air .
French officials themselves gave the statement - Rafale was not part of exercise .

Anyhow it dosen't matter , because
Garuda2011 will give us another opportunity to test the quality of Rafale .

I hope you are not only taking the livefist article as a source that Rafale did not participated. Just as these articles stated, Rafale did not participated in the whole exercise, only at some parts. That Rafale is not completely involved was clear, when the pics of the Garuda 2010 emblem came up, showing MKI, F16 and Mirage 2000 only. These fighters were stationed at Istres, while Rafales normally are stationed at Saint-Dizier, but look what I found today :

All from the same source and at the same date and here more from another source, but at the same day too:

So 2 articles that confirms Rafales participations, for at least some parts of the exercise and these pics of again 2 different sources that shows Rafale and the Garuda 2010 participants at Istres, on the same day.
Can you share the info about not using EWS during the exercise? Regarding Spectra, it is not just an EWS it is also used for surveillance and the Rafale used these advantages often to detect fighters passively instead of using the radar.

 

[KEETARP]

it is not just an EWS it is also used for surveillance and the Rafale used these advantages often to detect fighters passively instead of using the radar.

There is difference between 3 terms Passive detection , Surveillance , EW .

Look what article says

One cannot fail to speak also about the Spectra system of protection and warning established on Rafale, which aims to identify threats to 360 ° around the plane in active or passive mode. It also suppresses the waves around the plane, which hampers its location even with the aid of the most powerful radar.

There are two issues with Red Part

One -
If you are talking of cancelling waves , means onboard-jammers come into picture

Second
Spectra has cryptoanalytic+spectrum analysis gear on board integrated with passive conformal antennae's , Every time RWR or passive sensor gathers signal its digital library is updated , meaning French were upto ELNIT/SIGNIT without either Indian or Singapore air force objecting to it .

This is in opposite to what was decided at the start of exercise "Fair-usage of weapons" ??
for the same reason Indian su30 didn't carry a single EW equipment - E/L-8022 Jammer , Condor2+ELBIT-2060 ISTAR pod or Shiva-HADF for SIGNIT/ELS unlike Red-Flag where these were used .

Can you share the info about not using EWS during the exercise?

Not Possible ,I can't tell my source ,
but IAF and RSAF not using EW is also in article you posted .

s our mirage upgrade have spectra electric warfare system

No , they will hace ICMS3 suite , i posted the details before also .
Here is it

 

[gowthamraj]

^ sir,From your post, it clearly visible that rafald have well edge than other aircraft in Mrca tender. Am i right

 

[KEETARP]

Depends on what basis your evaluation is
Rafale is ahead in some and lacks in some mission .

With regards to EW suite if you take whole spectrum for comparison like

-Electronic Attack comprising
(ARM (Anti Radiation Munitions),Directed Energy Weapons,EM Jamming/ECM,EM Deception

-Electronic Support Measures comprising
Combat Direction Finding/Triangulation , Combat Threat Warning/Perception , Electronic Intelligence

-Electronic Protection comprising
EMCON (Emission Control) , EM Hardening , EW Frequency Deconfliction

My winner is F18E
if you look at the capability of F18E in EW among all MRCA candidates its even more complex , every-time you read about Growler capability just amazes more.

For example look at just one scenario
If both F18 and Rafale are in service of IAF and both jets are going on a strike mission
First thing would be to fly fast at both high altitude and at sea level to try and remain in envelope between AWACS and SAM radars where threat is minimum . Rafale flies at Mach 0.75 while F18 sustains at 1 Mach ??? at low altitude .

Second threat will come from IADS ( air-defence system ) .
Here SPECTRA and MDPU CP can pick up radiation as soon as F18E LAU-118(V) system detects radiation ,
but after that Spectra can only display threat while CP-1001B/C HARM CLC (Command Launch Computer) on F18 can not only display but it will also guide HARM-88 AGM launch system to fire AGM88 missile to take out that SAM radar installation , which home on to target passively .
And with block6 upgrade of HARM , even if Enemy shuts down his SAM radar to escape like Serbians did when F117 was around, the onboard Mww ( millimeter wave terminal seeker) will provide a counter-shutdown capability and this guidance will ensure that SAM is destroyed .
All this at a stand-of distance and passively .

Once you clear out these IDS threat , F18 can create havoc with its JDAM/JSOFW/PAveway3/Laser-JDAM at stand-of distance and at relatively cheap price .

Compare that to Rafale's weaponry
One - it lacks HARM ,
second - Stand-of capability is with AASM + ASMP missile + GBU12 Paveway2 only and compare it to JSOW/JDAM these are not only costly but provide less flexibility which cheap cluster bombs of US provide .

But all this comes attached with restriction , so even i personally advocate Rafale over F18 for MRCA .

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

When India will buy the winning aircraft
1. Is it coming with TOT
2. Will some of them be assemble in India too

 

[CONNAN]

When India will buy the winning aircraft
1. Is it coming with TOT
2. Will some of them be assemble in India too

MMRCA: Update

EADS to shift some Eurofighter development projects to India-Politics/Nation-News-The Economic Times

BERLIN: European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company NV (EADS) would transfer some of the development projects of its advanced fourth generation Eurofighter Typhoon or other military aircraft to India soon, a top company official said on Thursday.

"We will transfer some of our development projects, which we have in Europe for Eurofighter or other military aircraft to India, where we have set up a military research and development (R&D) centre in Bangalore," EADS chief executive (defence & security) Stefan Zoller told IANS here.

The Netherlands-based European aerospace corporation was created in 2000 by merging Aerospatiale Matra of France, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace AG (DASA) of Germany (excluding the MTU engine business) and Construcciones Aeronauticas SA (CASA) of Spain.

Asserting that the consortium's R&D activities were independent of its bid for the 126 medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), Zoller said leveraging the high-skilled Indian talent and the potential of the emerging Indian aerospace industry would lead to developing new technologies and creation of jobs.

"If we win the IAF order, the development of newer versions of Typhoon for India and global market will result in creation of about 20,000 direct jobs, as the bid involves the winner re-investing 50 percent of the deal in India's defence manufacturing industry," Zoller said at the 100th Berlin international air show.

Besides Eurofighter, the US-based Lockheed Martin F-16s and Boeing's F/A-18IN Super Hornet, French D'Assault's Rafale, Swiss SAAB's Gripen and Russian MiG-35 are the other five contenders for the IAF order, estimated to be $10-12 billion.

The IAF plans to acquire 18 of these in ready-to-fly condition, with the remaining 118 being manufactured by the Indian defence behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) under technology transfer and licensed production, to replace its ageing Russian MiG-21 fleet and enhance its strike capability.

"We will transfer 60 percent of the Eurofighter technology to India if Typhoon wins the bid. Our long-term strategy is to partner with the Indian aerospace industry for our global market, as we consider the Indian talent and resources as an ideal source for knowhow and to develop newer technologies," Zoller said.

The consortium is keen on building a centre of competence and a centre of excellence in Bangalore through its Indian subsidiary to design and develop next-generation products and solutions to its European and global markets.

"We also want to establish a division of our defence and security wing in India independent of the IAF order for Typhoon not to duplicate what we are doing in Europe but replicate its business model to leverage the potential of the Indian aerospace industry through joint ventures and offset projects," Zoller added

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

So the rumors could be true that India is going for Euro fighter because of TOT and Assemble line.

 

[CONNAN]

So the rumors could be true that India is going for Euro fighter because of TOT and Assemble line.

i am not sure this is the biggest suspence that hunts me and most of my fellow members here and as u can see in most of the defence forums

 

[Sri]

Sri

Mayawi will go on-board IsAF f-35 and InAF LCAmk2 + Su30mki . It is not a part of LCAmk1 or MKI currently .

Currently work-sharing is 60:40 btw DARE lab Banglore : ELBIT system Israel .

Advantages are many fold
Firstly the DAS1 ( Defensive aid suite one) on LCA and current MKi is Federated and not an integrated one .
- First thing that MAYAWI brings is Integrated DAS
- CMDS will be tightly coupled with TMS core computer
- Mayawi will have its own SPJ in contrast to discrete EL/8222 jammer, EL82222 which is not part of DAS of LCA or MKI
- Currently both LCA and MKI lack ELS , MKI currently carries SIVA pod for Emitter location and subsequently guidance to KH31-P missile . Not sure what such system is on-board LCA to give SEAD/DEAD capability
- Mayawi in addition will add
LWS
MAWS
TAD
Mki currently lacks both Missile approach warning system and Towed Active Decoy

Angle of Attack: Mayavi Electronic Warfare System

This is only little bit of information available about Mayawi , specs and operating freq, range all are classified .

Thanks a lot Prateek,

I have one more doubt - Will it be on par with Spectra or the one on F 35?