What's new

EXCLUSIVE FIRST VIDEO & IMAGES: Here She Is! D63 Kolkata Destroyer With Indian Navy

It is a big space between those two AK630s... imho somwhat larger than on Delhi P15 (due to different torpedo tube arrangement: fixed versus turntable))
DSC_0163.JPG

Delhi6.jpg
What is it above the hel hanger ?(on both sides)
 
. .
It is a big space between those two AK630s... imho somwhat larger than on Delhi P15 (due to different torpedo tube arrangement: fixed versus turntable))
DSC_0163.JPG

Delhi6.jpg

But shouldn't we be careful while only making estimates based on the above deck space? I mean any VLU will take up below deck space too, associated wiring perhaps etc.?

Honestly though, unless the below deck space between the foremost Barak VLUs and the AShM VLU has been taken up by something or cannot be sacrificed for some reason (could it be that the AShM VLU needs the extra empty space for servicing or on-shore reloading procedure? Dunno), it should be easy enough to fit another 16 Barak cells.

I am more concerned about the point defence, CIWS system and VSR.

How would you compare the AK-630 with the Oerlikon Millennium CIWS? I believe that the Oerlikon guns do not require any below deck penetration and do not require a supply of coolant or the ship's power to operate?

Also, apparently the Maitri SR-SAM does require a sensor analogous to the STGR for the Barak-1s, its called the Revathi, so I guess any retrofitting of the SR-SAM will still require removing the foremost CIWS guns, under such a circumstance I'd like to see the AK-630s get moved out completely and replaced. I'd personally be happy with 32 LR-SAMs and 32 quick reaction SR-SAMs along with a 3D VSR like the RAN or SMART-L, the last two additions would be MORE THAN ENOUGH IMO.
 
. . . .
But shouldn't we be careful while only making estimates based on the above deck space? I mean any VLU will take up below deck space too, associated wiring perhaps etc.?

The Barak 1 VLU takes up space below deck, it you have a longer VLU needed for SRSAM and you go higher, there is no need for more depth below deck than with Barak 1. Barak 1 is 2,2 m long. VL Mica is about 3m long and fits the Sylver A35 VLU. At most you need half a deck extra height, that's why I was looking at the ELTA STIR location. Go figure.

Landbased VLU for VL Mica
vlmica.jpg


Sylver family of VLUs.
vml02.jpg

Lanceurs Sylver A35 pour missiles Mica intégrés sur FREMM (© : DCNS)
12408.jpg

FREMM grecques : Le contrat à ne pas rater pour DCNS | Mer et Marine

Honestly though, unless the below deck space between the foremost Barak VLUs and the AShM VLU has been taken up by something or cannot be sacrificed for some reason (could it be that the AShM VLU needs the extra empty space for servicing or on-shore reloading procedure? Dunno), it should be easy enough to fit another 16 Barak cells.

You might consider it is a command vessel, perhaps it has additional needs for spaces for command purposes.

I am more concerned about the point defence, CIWS system and VSR.
I believe that was what we were discussing: Barak 1 and AK630?

How would you compare the AK-630 with the Oerlikon Millennium CIWS? I believe that the Oerlikon guns do not require any below deck penetration and do not require a supply of coolant or the ship's power to operate?
Millennium is far superior to AK630, not in the last place due to it firing a far bigger round (35 x 228 mm, at 1000 rpm versus 30 x 165 at 6000 rpm).

Round length (complete round) AK630: 29.3 cm
AHEAD: 15.23 in (38.7 cm)
HEI: 15.23 in (38.7 cm)
APDS-T: 13.39 in (34.0 cm)

Round weight AK630: 0.832 - 0.834 kg
AHEAD: 3.90 lbs. (1.77 kg)
HEI: 3.48 lbs. (1.58 kg)
APDS-T: 3.19 lbs. (1.445 kg)

Warhead weght: AK630: 0.0117 kg - 0.0485 kg
AHEAD: N/A (uses 152 sub-projectiles of 3.3 gms each)
HEI: 0.25 lbs. (0.112 kg)
APDS-T: N/A - solid penetrator weighs 0.666 lbs. (0.302 kg)

Muzzle velocity AK630: 860-960 m/s
AHEAD: 1,050 m/s (3,445 ft/s)
HEI: 1,175 m/s (3,854 ft/s)
APDS/T: 1,440 m/s (4,724 ft/s)

max. effective range 3500m (3830 yd) AK630: 4000m

But, the gunmount weight 3,3 tons versus 1850-2500kg.

Also, apparently the Maitri SR-SAM does require a sensor analogous to the STGR for the Barak-1s, its called the Revathi, so I guess any retrofitting of the SR-SAM will still require removing the foremost CIWS guns, under such a circumstance I'd like to see the AK-630s get moved out completely and replaced. I'd personally be happy with 32 LR-SAMs and 32 quick reaction SR-SAMs along with a 3D VSR like the RAN or SMART-L, the last two additions would be MORE THAN ENOUGH IMO.
How so, if it is to be Infrared and/or Active radar homing like Mica is? Barak 1 needs a radar director because it is CLOS (command to line of sight = not homing).
+
You can't have a ship with just a 76mm cannon, you need something smaller e.g. to take out small boats.

Compare second from the left with third from the right...
ModNaval30-40mm.jpg

POSTWAR AA GUN AMMUNITION
27x145B
(Mauser BK 27 in MLG 27 mounting),
30x165 (current Russian naval),
30x170 (Oerlikon KCB),
30x173 (FMPDS in GAU-8/A, in Goalkeeper mounting),
30x210B (Russian/Chinese NN-30),
30x210 (Czech M53),
35x228
(Oerlikon, various),
37x240 (Chinese Type 76 naval),
40x364R (Bofors L/70)

Picture from the TONY WILLIAMS' AMMUNITION PHOTO GALLERY
See
ANTI
 
Last edited:
.
@Dillinger Isn't Maitri's radar (I think it is) the Ashwini 4D radar?

nwf5GI7.jpg


p3Ly3a7.jpg


Revathi is a much older design, isn't it?

Ve0ATh0.jpg


A cropped close-up of the supposed canister launcher for the ground-based version >

7zbStn1.jpg
 
.
6Ol3Tgz.jpg

Note that Revathi is NOT an missile director like the Elta EL/M 2221 STGR is. Rather, it is a medium range 3D surveillance radar, aka Central Acquisition Radar or CAR. The 3-D CAR was originally developed as part of a program between Indian DRDO and Poland's PIT as a family of mobile S-Band 3D radars. This 3-D radar is more like the Elta EL/M-2238 STAR found on Shivalik. STAR is an acronym of Surveillance & Threat Alert Radar.

Central Acquisition Radar (CAR) - Naval Technology

The Rohini is the Indian Air Force specific variant whereas the Revathi is for the Indian Navy.

31tvepbs_LRDE_jpg_1316369e.jpg
ROHINI-794866


As installed on Nilgiri class INS Dunagiri (F36),
20091218262510201.jpg

INS+Dunagiri+is+the+trials+ship+for+Revati+3D+CAR.JPG

http:// www. Bharat - rakshak.com / media / Misc / INS+Dunagiri+is+the+trials+ship+for+Revati+3D+CAR.JPG.html
 
Last edited:
. .
@Dillinger Isn't Maitri's radar (I think it is) the Ashwini 4D radar?

nwf5GI7.jpg


p3Ly3a7.jpg


Revathi is a much older design, isn't it?

Ve0ATh0.jpg


A cropped close-up of the supposed canister launcher for the ground-based version >

7zbStn1.jpg

They keep rehashing the names, it honestly gets confusing.

Got a very grainy infographic-

SR-SAM1-727718.jpg




The Ashwini radar is geared towards our ADGE, It is to serve akin to the Rohini 3D-CAR. The Revathi is a 3D sensor, refer to @Penguin's pics of the sensor on the Brahmaputra.

@Penguin

When I was referring to below deck space being taken up by a VLU it was not in regard to the relative dimensions of the VLU for the Barak and the SR-SAM. In that context indeed the issue is not of much significance since as you pointed out that one need not require greater "depth" for a "longer" VLU. MY POINT was that ANY additional VLU will require its own bit of below deck space no matter how big or small the VLU is, so, are we even sure that the Kolkata has any such space left to spare at all for ANY VLU?

Following in the steps of the Delhi class SLEP seems to be the most risk free option for retro-fitting the SR-SAM.

You're right about there being no need for a STGR analogue for the SR-SAM, my mistake.
 
Last edited:
.
Under development against specific requirement is a low-level, transportable radar called Ashwini, for automatic detection and tracking of helicopters, fixed-wing aircraft, UAVs and RPVs. Ashwini will take the place of Rohini when the latter's production is completed
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20120224290309800.htm&date=fl2903/&prd=fline&

Low Level Transportable Radar (Ashwini)

LLTR is a state-of-the-art 4D active array technology based multifunction radar. This radar is being developed by LRDE to provide airspace awareness about high manoeuvrable targets to gain superiority.
DRDO

Not sure if there is/will be a naval version of that.

FOr comparison: land based Elta STAR
348395_orig.jpg
 
.
IMG_7772.JPG


BEST PIC



Will be followed by 4 P-15Bs, and the existing 3 Delhi-class DDGs will also be upgraded with many of the
same weapons & systems
. In total 10 DDGs with AESA radars, BrahMos supersonic/hypersonic ASCMs and
Barak-8/8ER SAMs have been outlined so far.

Any source for this information?
 
. .
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20120224290309800.htm&date=fl2903/&prd=fline&


DRDO

Not sure if there is/will be a naval version of that.

FOr comparison: land based Elta STAR
348395_orig.jpg

Yes, the Ashwini 4D CAR is undergoing trials and will replace the Rohini 3D sensor as the central acquisition radar similar to how the battery level radar is also being replaced with a more advanced iteration from the same family of BLRs.


The Revathi on the other hand is a naval variant of the Rohini, you are quite right, it is not a missile director sensor.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom