Every 3 mins a Christian is tortured in the Muslim world, Christian activist alleges

[Gazzi]

Yes, how can one even come up with such a number when those alledged to have been "tortured" are never known or come forward. Do you have names and allegation made for this sttistical record and what is classed as "torture" as is some countries and statistical records class insults, abusive or words causing alarm, harrassment or distress are classed as a form of torture.

If we go with the Israeli media then obe cannot ignore the Iranian media or Government attempts to questions the number of Jews exterminated during the holocaust or that being committed bt the US and Israel, what is it something like 3 million Iraqis since sanctions and invasion of 1991, or the hundreds of millions during the last two world wars and the last fifty years.

I think we can quote number back in millions and not mear hundreds of thousands Sir. GO CHECK YOUR SOURCE DATA AGAIN PLEASE as those living in the Muslim word are COPTIC Christians.

 

[Musalman]

Thats 175200 christians a year !!! I doubt there is any truth in that news

 

[afriend]

The constitution is irrelevant when facts on the ground do not match up. Lots of countries have laws about everything, but the question is how/if they are enforced, and do the people follow the spirit of the law?
On the contrary, you tried to validate an anti-Muslim rant by our Jewish poster, one of the many Israeli apologists on this forum.

You did not point out that innocent Muslims face discrimination, torture, and abuse (under the guise of GWOT) in non-Muslim countries. You did not point out that all religions are guilty of abuse. You did not point out that Israel is modelled after apartheid-era South Africa, institutionalizes religious bigotry in its very consttitution (Law of Return), and is one of the worst offenders in terms of ethnic cleansing.

Instead, you piled on the anti-Muslim bandwagon with your myopic take on the subject and selective claims about Muslim-majority countries. You can try all you want to backpeddle and explain your words "in context", but nobody's going to buy your weaseling.

Mr. Developero, you never couldnt understand and comprehend what i tried to point out, by the prejduice you have, it seems you view each and every situation through the lens of religion.

You have NO RIGHT TO SAY that minorities in your countries are persecuted or descriminated because of israel or the treatment they recieve in other countries atleast that is what i have comprehended by your ranting coz you never denied or raised a single argument against the points raised by me. That being the first point.

I had pointed out that, visibily the constitituions of many muslim countries are itself tilted towards majority so morally you are devoid in accusing the entire western world for the minority descrimination, atleast their constitiution gurantees them the protection and their system gives them the right take legal actions against the peoples who goest against the principles of their constitution. But ofcourse you can say descrimination is wrong and condemn it, but at the same time you can't accuse the entire west or india for that and stereotype them.

Thirdly i know there are sterotyping against muslims in many countries, how does it end, where is your moderate voice??? Is it being ever made or that we are not able to hear it. Image of a religion is created based on the actions of its followers. Here i clearly stated that TERRORISTS have made it a fight of RELIGION, and since it is of religion many muslims support it. Who have to be blamed for the action of terrorists, the west or the terrorists themselves??? No body in the world want the world to be devoid of muslims.. its only that you guys have to come forward and make sure your voices are heard, rather than holding on to a mypoic thought that the WHOLE WORLD is against you.

And i would love to understand what part of south african constituion is institutionalising religoius descrimination.

And i am neither hindu or muslim am both.. and i am not going to hate people for these religions. But i will raise my opinions against prejudictic comments by muslims, hindus or christains.

 

[Developereo]

Mr. Developero, you never couldnt understand and comprehend what i tried to point out, by the prejduice you have, it seems you view each and every situation through the lens of religion.

In case you missed it, the entire topic is about religion.

In any case, you tried to validate an anti-Muslim rant by a Jewish poster without pointing out the absurdity of an Israeli apologist accusing others of religious bigotry. I have noticed Indians are among the most fervent apologists for Israel and the most eager to attack Muslims/Arabs in any discussion.

you never denied or raised a single argument against the points raised by me.

I don't have to defend anything to someone who comes from a country with an abysmal human rights record, especially towards minorities. Fix your own house before commenting on others.

And I certainly don't have to entertain an accusation by an Israeli apologist, a country which institutionalizes religious bigotry within its very constitution and which is founded on an ideology akin to Nazism.

I had pointed out that, visibily the constitituions of many muslim countries are itself tilted towards majority so morally you are devoid in accusing the entire western world for the minority descrimination, atleast their constitiution gurantees them the protection and their system gives them the right take legal actions against the peoples who goest against the principles of their constitution.

Utter nonsense. Most Western countries have conveniently found loopholes in their constitution to exempt certain crimes, i.e. terrorism and crimes related to national security. People accused of these crimes do NOT enjoy normal protections of the consitution, and are prosecuted using secret evidence and anonymous witnesses whom they may not cross-examine.

you can't accuse the entire west or india for that and stereotype them.

I can accuse India for its ground realities. The constituion is irrelevant when thousands of people get killed for their religious beliefs and the perpetrators roam free even after 25 years.

Thirdly i know there are sterotyping against muslims in many countries, how does it end, where is your moderate voice??? Is it being ever made or that we are not able to hear it.

You are not able to hear it. After every terrorist incident by Muslims, all the major Muslim organizations condemned it. After 9/11, American Muslim organizations organized blood drives and Muslims volunteered their services, but the Western media deliberately ignores this aspect.

The Zionist media has a very clear agenda against Muslims, which involves portraying them in the most negative way possible, and ignoring any positive news involving Muslims.

Image of a religion is created based on the actions of its followers. Here i clearly stated that TERRORISTS have made it a fight of RELIGION, and since it is of religion many muslims support it. Who have to be blamed for the action of terrorists, the west or the terrorists themselves???

Once again, it is the Zionist media portrayal of events. Of course the terrorists are to blame for their crimes. But the Christian terrorists who bomb Iraqi/Afghan/Pakistani civilians are not held accountable. The Jewish terrorists who have ethnically cleansed Palestine and routinely torture Palestinians do not get blamed. The Hindu terrorists who killed Sikhs, Muslims and Christians do not get highlighted in the media.

the WHOLE WORLD is against you.

The whole world is not against us. The Zionist media is against us, and it is doing its best to raise a generation of anti-Muslim bigots.

And i would love to understand what part of south african constituion is institutionalising religoius descrimination.

Read my post again. It is the Israeli constitution that legalizes religious discrimination. The 'Law of Return' automatically grants Israeli citizenship to any Jew anywhere on the planet. Meanwhile, millions of Muslim/Christian Arabs are denied the right to return to their homes in Israel, from where they were chased out by Jewish terrorists.

And i am neither hindu or muslim am both.. and i am not going to hate people for these religions. But i will raise my opinions against prejudictic comments by muslims, hindus or christains.

Then you would do well to educate yourself about Jewish/Christian terrorism and point out the absurdity of Israeli apologists accusing others of religious bigotry. I am not saying that Muslim countries do not have problems of religious intolerance, but the problem exists in many countries and people in glass houses...

 

[afriend]

In case you missed it, the entire topic is about religion.

In any case, you tried to validate an anti-Muslim rant by a Jewish poster without pointing out the absurdity of an Israeli apologist accusing others of religious bigotry. I have noticed Indians are among the most fervent apologists for Israel and the most eager to attack Muslims/Arabs in any discussion.



I don't have to defend anything to someone who comes from a country with an abysmal human rights record, especially towards minorities. Fix your own house before commenting on others.

And I certainly don't have to entertain an accusation by an Israeli apologist, a country which institutionalizes religious bigotry within its very constitution and which is founded on an ideology akin to Nazism.



Utter nonsense. Most Western countries have conveniently found loopholes in their constitution to exempt certain crimes, i.e. terrorism and crimes related to national security. People accused of these crimes do NOT enjoy normal protections of the consitution, and are prosecuted using secret evidence and anonymous witnesses whom they may not cross-examine.



I can accuse India for its ground realities. The constituion is irrelevant when thousands of people get killed for their religious beliefs and the perpetrators roam free even after 25 years.



You are not able to hear it. After every terrorist incident by Muslims, all the major Muslim organizations condemned it. After 9/11, American Muslim organizations organized blood drives and Muslims volunteered their services, but the Western media deliberately ignores this aspect.

The Zionist media has a very clear agenda against Muslims, which involves portraying them in the most negative way possible, and ignoring any positive news involving Muslims.



Once again, it is the Zionist media portrayal of events. Of course the terrorists are to blame for their crimes. But the Christian terrorists who bomb Iraqi/Afghan/Pakistani civilians are not held accountable. The Jewish terrorists who have ethnically cleansed Palestine and routinely torture Palestinians do not get blamed. The Hindu terrorists who killed Sikhs, Muslims and Christians do not get highlighted in the media.



The whole world is not against us. The Zionist media is against us, and it is doing its best to raise a generation of anti-Muslim bigots.



Read my post again. It is the Israeli constitution that legalizes religious discrimination. The 'Law of Return' automatically grants Israeli citizenship to any Jew anywhere on the planet. Meanwhile, millions of Muslim/Christian Arabs are denied the right to return to their homes in Israel, from where they were chased out by Jewish terrorists.



Then you would do well to educate yourself about Jewish/Christian terrorism and point out the absurdity of Israeli apologists accusing others of religious bigotry. I am not saying that Muslim countries do not have problems of religious intolerance, but the problem exists in many countries and people in glass houses...

Sorry brother if you are using the term fix your house then accuse us stuff, there is no point in discussion, Peoples action and the basic right ensured by constitution are two different things, and i as a person follow and believe in the constitution of india, and i cannot be held morally responsible for the actions of few of my countrymen who go against my countries constitution. A the same time, if your constitution itself is not secular, and you abide by and endorse that constitution how in the world can you accuse of the world of descrimination. And israel is not the world, and if you bench mark israel and try to wage a war against the whole west just like 9/11 the image of muslims is not going to get better, so there is a clear difference between terrorist and muslims and your anger stems out of the sterotyping of muslims as i know you cannot be held morally responsible for the actions of your fellow religous followers, but if you too fall into the vicious cycle of hate then nothing is going to change.

 

[graphican]

Oh thats one Israeli brain fart.. Couldn't have expected anything better out of them.

 

[Developereo]

Sorry brother if you are using the term fix your house then accuse us stuff, there is no point in discussion,

We can agree that all countries need to improve their situation.

you too fall into the vicious cycle of hate then nothing is going to change.

The only people I hate are those who promote division and hatred between people. As a Muslim I am, of course, extra sensitive to those who promote hatred against Muslims, but all hate-mongers are to be eschewed, including Muslim ones.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Looks like I have to say it again. No one here can factually dispute what I said. Emotional rants about about Muslim victimhood notwithstanding:

It is pretty clear that the historical Christian communities in Muslim majority nations are gradually being extinguished. There were hundreds of Christian sects and communities scattered over Africa and the Middle East that formed in the centuries after Jesus but before Mohammad. Most have been wiped out or pressured into a subservient existence by the Muslim majorities. Ironically, the creation of Israel, engendering Muslim anger at "the West", has hastened the extinction of these indigenous communities.

 

[Developereo]

Looks like I have to say it again. No one here can factually dispute what I said.

No one here cares about rants by Evangelical loony tunes. Islam has been far more tolerant towards conquered peoples than other religions, especially Christianity. Look into the barbaric history of Christianity and you will get a reality check.

Regarding your post, give America back to the native Americans, Australia back to the Aborigines and Europe back to the Neanderthals. Until you are willing to do that, spare us your selective outrage.

Also, by your own admission, it was the ethnic cleansing in Palestine that made matters worse. You do realize that many of the Arabs who were cleansed out of Palestiane by Jewish terrorists were, in fact, Christian?

And what do you mean by indigenous? Did the Christians grow out of the soil? All communities supplant earlier ones. The Christians killed off/converted earlier communities of Jews and pagans, who in turn, did the same to previous residents.

 

[Solomon2]

Thats 175200 christians a year !!! I doubt there is any truth in that news

Finally! Folks who actually evaluate the information presented before judgment! My hat's off to you, Musalman and Gazzi!

Nevertheless, when you consider it a bit more deeply, it's possible the numbers may be correct. Think of Timor, Sudan, Somalia, Gaza, Nigeria, Iraq: all these countries have known issues with Muslims afflicting minorities. I would like to know what the methodology was in this calculation - that's the question that should have been asked.

As for everyone else: have you considered that your prejudices may rule your minds, not facts and reason?

 

[TruthSeeker]

And what do you mean by indigenous? Did the Christians grow out of the soil? All communities supplant earlier ones. The Christians killed off/converted earlier communities of Jews and pagans, who in turn, did the same to previous residents.

Your last paragraph completely negates your first paragraphs. I guess what the Jews are doing in Palestine is just the same as normal human behavior, no less, no more. The strong prevail over the weak ... Right?

 

[Gazzi]

Finally! Folks who actually evaluate the information presented before judgment! My hat's off to you, Musalman and Gazzi!

Nevertheless, when you consider it a bit more deeply, it's possible the numbers may be correct. Think of Timor, Sudan, Somalia, Gaza, Nigeria, Iraq: all these countries have known issues with Muslims afflicting minorities. I would like to know what the methodology was in this calculation - that's the question that should have been asked.

As for everyone else: have you considered that your prejudices may rule your minds, not facts and reason?

THat attitude just goes to show that either we have to agree with those finding or we are obviously prejudiced. That is such a pathetic attitude.

I am asking for more information, what constitutes "torture" and what are the allegations, for each and every case which MUST have been checked and clarified, i.e. someone walking down the road is pushed, punched or kicked as happens to be a Christian, is that classed as torture also, in the eyes of the red cross, as it does fall into the remits of the Human Rights Act. As this would be total nonsence as every crime committed in the west against a minority can also be classed as torture.

Please clarify the point before making comment as I am questioning how the records are compiled. As Iraq for example, millions have died from Western backed/pushed sanctions and invasions, does that be classed as a holocaust or shall we just ignore that as they were Muslim......I mean...........who cares huh!!!!!!!!

 

[Solomon2]

We may be coming from different angles, but you and I are asking the same thing, Gazzi. So I just sent Shafie an email asking him to do so and report back to this forum.

 

[Gazzi]

We may be coming from different angles, but you and I are asking the same thing, Gazzi. So I just sent Shafie an email asking him to do so and report back to this forum.

Please do and can you also enquire whether the reports are victim led or investigated.

Reason why I say that is I have worked in organisations such as law & Order and have found that a victims account is classed as a valid entry to be crimed as an offence regardless of any authenticity behind it. It is like me having a dispute with you about anything. I can make an allegation that during an argument you threatened me and I believe you did this because I am a Hindu therefore it will be classed as a racially aggravated public order offence. Therefore this is not a valid way of classification as far as I am concerned therefore please clarify.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Looks like I have to say it again. No one here can factually dispute what I said. Emotional rants about about Muslim victimhood notwithstanding:

It is pretty clear that the historical Christian communities in Muslim majority nations are gradually being extinguished. There were hundreds of Christian sects and communities scattered over Africa and the Middle East that formed in the centuries after Jesus but before Mohammad. Most have been wiped out or pressured into a subservient existence by the Muslim majorities. Ironically, the creation of Israel, engendering Muslim anger at "the West", has hastened the extinction of these indigenous communities.

Same can be said about Christians or any other religion which expanded. You guys came to the US and what did you do to the native Indians ?? Even there are now Christians among the Red Indian community. Even remember reading and watching how the Children of Red Indians were taken from them and put into White established boarding schools and forced to change their way of life in converting them to the way of living of the white or how missionaries tried to put Christianity in them. Or how we heard the stories of Muslims in Spain when it was retaken by the Christian Armies and Muslims were butchered or ran away from Spain and those left were forced to convert to Christianity or else would be killed. Even this is what the Israelis are doing, aren't they ?? Muslims used to live here and they have been forced to flee their homes and illegal settlements day by day are being constructed so that Muslims are left to the minimum or completely gone and their land captured by Jews. Or you haven't heard the latest ban on Muslims in European countries ?? France banning Muslims to wear their religious dress ?? Or Swiss banning construction of Mosque minarets ?? Or how a Muslim pregnant women was brutally killed inside a court house in Germany ?? So all these are Christian countries, what else are they doing other then harassing Muslims or banning their religious freedom ?? Or how the Danish printed the cartoons of our Prophet PBUH and vilified Islam and gave pain to every Muslims on this planet.

Indian Hindu Fanatics burnt Churches and killed Christians, even it happened a few months ago in Goa City, why aren't the Indians or the Hindu religion vilified the way we get through such biased reports. When something happens to a Christian in a Muslims country your arses get on fire, media starts bashing, CNN & BBC are on top and show biased reports, while when it happens in India by Hindu fanatics, you guys keep your arses cooled down as if nothing happened.

One American dies in a Muslim country, you guys same day send FBI to investigate, while when an American young girl gets crushed by an Israeli Army's American Caterpillar made bulldozer, FBI is no where to be seen. Ironic

So why pointing out Muslims when above it can clearly be seen countries with Christian majority or others are harassing Muslims and doing their best to make living for Muslims a difficult task.

Hope you have heard the word Hypocrisy and Hypocrites.