European powers reject China's South China Sea claims

[thewayoftheworld]

Vietnam should resolve this dispute and enter in an economic sharing agreements with the claimants (same with China) for peace. The reality only 2 countries in can control this body of water in the region (US and China). US main strategic goal is to blockage China trade and China main goal is to secure trade against a US blockage. Who has a more sinister objective? China is the one who wants freedom of navigation in SCS, not the US. The US wants to seized any vessel in an sanction and blockage. ASEAN should be wary of American strategic goals. The last time American got involved in the region - Vietnam loss 3 million people (10% of her population). American ran back and slept nicely in their bed, while Vietnamese suffered for all the poison and mines left over by the Americans.

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[powastick]

I doubt his Viet guy a vietnamese. If China's historical claim is rejected, Vietnam can't claim them either.

 

[Viet]

Vietnam should resolve this dispute and enter in an economic sharing agreements with the claimants (same with China) for peace. The reality only 2 countries in can control this body of water in the region (US and China). US main strategic goal is to blockage China trade and China main goal is to secure trade against a US blockage. Who has a more sinister objective? China is the one who wants freedom of navigation in SCS, not the US. The US wants to seized any vessel in an sanction and blockage. ASEAN should be wary of American strategic goals. The last time American got involved in the region - Vietnam loss 3 million people (10% of her population). American ran back and slept nicely in their bed, while Vietnamese suffered for all the poison and mines left over by the Americans.

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You mean we give up our territory then we have you Chinese as freedom fighter in return?
Ever thought to consider a doc visit?
Maybe you have brain cancer.
The US never challenges Vietnam occupation of islands and control of Eez waters. Why should we complain over the US?
Pls don’t mention the war. What matters is today.

 

[cochine]

Judging from modern history, during the Second World War, Japan launched a war of aggression against China and occupied most of the South China Sea. The Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Proclamation and other international documents clearly stipulate that the Chinese territory stolen by Japan should be returned to China. In December 1946, the government of the Republic of China appointed senior officials to the Spratly Islands to receive a reception ceremony on the island to send troops to garrison. In 1951, the Chinese government stated in the Declaration on the United States, Britain and Japan on the peace treaty and the San Francisco conference, "the sovereignty of Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands is the same as the entire Dongsha Islands and the China Sand Islands, and has been China's territory since ancient times." It has been publicly recognized by a large number of governments including the Vietnamese government and the resolutions of international conferences. Therefore, there was no so-called "South China Sea issue" in the long period after the war, and no country in the South China Sea region had raised any objection to China's exercise of sovereignty over the Spratly Islands and its adjacent waters. The Japanese government formally stated in 1952 that it "gave up all rights, names and demands on Taiwan, Penghu islands, Spratly Islands and Paracel Islands" and handed over the South China Sea to China.

Before the Second World War, China had sovereignty over the South China Sea. In the Second World War, Japan occupied the sea and islands. After Japan's defeat, China regained sovereignty over the sea and islands as part of the Allied forces.

Now tell me, is Vietnam the main force of the allies? If not, what qualifications do you have to grab China's booty? As I said before, according to the international law, this sea and island belong to China. If you Vietnam does not obey the international law, you should fight with China. If you win China, the South China Sea will be yours. If you lose, China will occupy Vietnam. I think that if a country like Vietnam, which provokes international disputes, only gives up its illegal claim after losing the war, it is really unfair for the victorious countries. This sea area is about 3.5 million square kilometers, and Vietnam's national area is only 329000 square kilometers. Since Vietnam wants to occupy an ocean ten times larger than Vietnam's area, it is very kind of China to ask Vietnam to pay all its land after your failure.What do you think?

Paracel and spratly island group is part of Vietnam sea territory, long time ago in the past.

 

[cgy]

Paracel and spratly island group is part of Vietnam sea territory, long time ago in the past.

View attachment 671621

Judging from the ancient history, the South China Sea was occupied by the general of China at that time from the Western Zhou Dynasty, and the tribes of the South China Sea expressed their submission to the Western Zhou Dynasty. Since then, the South China Sea was incorporated into China's territory. At that time, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei did not exist at all.

In the Western Han Dynasty, the Chinese formally established local governments (zhuya and daner counties) in the South China Sea and declared sovereignty over a group of coral islands and reefs. In the eighteen years (42 AD) of the Eastern Han Dynasty, Fu Bo General Ma Yuan had been to "thousands of miles of Changsha" during the southern expedition, that is, the Paracel Islands. According to the cultural relics unearthed from Mawangdui Han tomb in Changsha in 1973, the South China Sea area first appeared on the Chinese topographic map of Han Dynasty, which is also the evidence that this sea area was officially owned by a country in history.



The latest legal document on the sovereignty of the South China Sea with the effect of international law is
《Treaty of Peace with Japan》

Article 2

(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.

(c) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands, and to that portion of Sakhalin and the islands adjacent to it over which Japan acquired sovereignty as a consequence of the Treaty of Portsmouth of 5 September 1905.

(d) Japan renounces all right, title and claim in connection with the League of Nations Mandate System, and accepts the action of the United Nations Security Council of 2 April 1947, extending the trusteeship system to the Pacific Islands formerly under mandate to Japan.

(e) Japan renounces all claim to any right or title to or interest in connection with any part of the Antarctic area, whether deriving from the activities of Japanese nationals or otherwise.

(f) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Spratly Islands and to the Paracel Islands.


Before the Second World War, China had sovereignty over the South China Sea. In the Second World War, Japan occupied the sea and islands. After Japan's defeat, China regained sovereignty over the sea and islands as part of the Allied forces.

Now tell me, is Vietnam the main force of the allies? If not, what qualifications do you have to grab China's booty? As I said before, according to the international law, this sea and island belong to China. If you Vietnam does not obey the international law, you should fight with China. If you win China, the South China Sea will be yours. If you lose, China will occupy Vietnam. I think that if a country like Vietnam, which provokes international disputes, only gives up its illegal claim after losing the war, it is really unfair for the victorious countries. This sea area is about 3.5 million square kilometers, and Vietnam's national area is only 329000 square kilometers. Since Vietnam wants to occupy an ocean ten times larger than Vietnam's area, it is very kind of China to ask Vietnam to pay all its land after your failure.What do you think?

 

[cochine]

Judging from the ancient history, the South China Sea was occupied by the general of China at that time from the Western Zhou Dynasty, and the tribes of the South China Sea expressed their submission to the Western Zhou Dynasty. Since then, the South China Sea was incorporated into China's territory. At that time, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei did not exist at all.

In the Western Han Dynasty, the Chinese formally established local governments (zhuya and daner counties) in the South China Sea and declared sovereignty over a group of coral islands and reefs. In the eighteen years (42 AD) of the Eastern Han Dynasty, Fu Bo General Ma Yuan had been to "thousands of miles of Changsha" during the southern expedition, that is, the Paracel Islands. According to the cultural relics unearthed from Mawangdui Han tomb in Changsha in 1973, the South China Sea area first appeared on the Chinese topographic map of Han Dynasty, which is also the evidence that this sea area was officially owned by a country in history.



The latest legal document on the sovereignty of the South China Sea with the effect of international law is
《Treaty of Peace with Japan》

Article 2

(b) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to Formosa and the Pescadores.

(c) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Kurile Islands, and to that portion of Sakhalin and the islands adjacent to it over which Japan acquired sovereignty as a consequence of the Treaty of Portsmouth of 5 September 1905.

(d) Japan renounces all right, title and claim in connection with the League of Nations Mandate System, and accepts the action of the United Nations Security Council of 2 April 1947, extending the trusteeship system to the Pacific Islands formerly under mandate to Japan.

(e) Japan renounces all claim to any right or title to or interest in connection with any part of the Antarctic area, whether deriving from the activities of Japanese nationals or otherwise.

(f) Japan renounces all right, title and claim to the Spratly Islands and to the Paracel Islands.


Before the Second World War, China had sovereignty over the South China Sea. In the Second World War, Japan occupied the sea and islands. After Japan's defeat, China regained sovereignty over the sea and islands as part of the Allied forces.

Now tell me, is Vietnam the main force of the allies? If not, what qualifications do you have to grab China's booty? As I said before, according to the international law, this sea and island belong to China. If you Vietnam does not obey the international law, you should fight with China. If you win China, the South China Sea will be yours. If you lose, China will occupy Vietnam. I think that if a country like Vietnam, which provokes international disputes, only gives up its illegal claim after losing the war, it is really unfair for the victorious countries. This sea area is about 3.5 million square kilometers, and Vietnam's national area is only 329000 square kilometers. Since Vietnam wants to occupy an ocean ten times larger than Vietnam's area, it is very kind of China to ask Vietnam to pay all its land after your failure.What do you think?

Japan invaded in to Paracel islands of Vietnam from 1939, when WW II is began, Japan given up it in 1945. Paracel and Spratly must be return back to Vietnam.

 

[redtom]

Japan invaded in to Paracel islands of Vietnam from 1939, when WW II is began, Japan given up it in 1945. Paracel and Spratly must be return back to Vietnam.

In 1939, Vietnam was a place name, not a country.

If we want to recognize the legitimacy of colonization, Vietnam is not a country at all. The South China Sea issue is China's and France's problem.

The South China Sea is China's if it does not recognize the legitimacy of colonization.

So the Vietnamese can either admit they are not a country and let China and France deal with it.We don't care. If the French want a war, we fight a war. If the Vietnamese think they are an independent country, then the South China Sea is China's.This logic applies to any country that has territorial disputes with China.

Considering that everyone is a victim of colonialism, China adopts a soft policy to settle territorial disputes.If any country does not like this approach, we do not mind resorting to colonial solutions.

 

[cochine]

In 1939, Vietnam was a place name, not a country.

If we want to recognize the legitimacy of colonization, Vietnam is not a country at all. The South China Sea issue is China's and France's problem.

The South China Sea is China's if it does not recognize the legitimacy of colonization.

So the Vietnamese can either admit they are not a country and let China and France deal with it.We don't care. If the French want a war, we fight a war. If the Vietnamese think they are an independent country, then the South China Sea is China's.This logic applies to any country that has territorial disputes with China.

Considering that everyone is a victim of colonialism, China adopts a soft policy to settle territorial disputes.If any country does not like this approach, we do not mind resorting to colonial solutions.

Apply your logic, China is not the country under control of manchurian, mongolian, Japan and USA until now... note that manchurian (Manchu Guo) was controlled by Japan in WW II.

Vietnam regained independence in 1945.

What is china ? your country is not united now. KMT and Taiwan is under control of USA until now. elevent dashed made by KMT in 1947, when China is the battle field, not the country ... Your father USA has rejected claim 9 dash of China in East Sea of Vietnam

Its boring when discuss with uneducated Chinese in this forum.

 

[mike2000 is back]

The West's silence over Taiwan's SCS claims reveals what their hysteria over Chinese mainland's is about

The fact that Taiwan has the same claims does not fit into the neat script drawn up in the Western media and its think tanks. Taiwan's near-identical claims, as well as their determination to defend these claims, are enough to prove that the PRC's historical claims to the SCS are not invalidated...

news.cgtn.com

Taiwans claims for China is the most rediculous of them all. I'm.surprised nobody even calls them out for this. Thank GOD the KNT lost the war to the CCP. Else they would have long have occupied all the SCS islands after WWII and the world would have no choice than to recognise their hold/sovereignty over the region as a fait accompli. The KMT was far more expansionist than the CCP. That's what most people forget.

Just look at their rediculous claim for China. It makes the CCP look like a shy moron. Lol

 

[redtom]

Apply your logic, China is not the country under control of manchurian, mongolian, Japan and USA until now... note that manchurian (Manchu Guo) was controlled by Japan in WW II.

Vietnam regained independence in 1945.

What is china ? your country is not united now. KMT and Taiwan is under control of USA until now. elevent dashed made by KMT in 1947, when China is the battle field, not the country ... Your father USA has rejected claim 9 dash of China in East Sea of Vietnam

Its boring when discuss with uneducated Chinese in this forum.

Is this history made up by the Vietnamese? Please refer to the Chinese and French records for the history of Vietnam, don't make it up. Refer to international scholarly literature, not Vietnamese fiction, for world history.

Were the Vietnamese in WORLD War II?
Did the Vietnamese participate in the creation of the UN?
Did Vietnam have its own independent government in colonial times?

 

[cgy]

Japan invaded in to Paracel islands of Vietnam from 1939, when WW II is began, Japan given up it in 1945. Paracel and Spratly must be return back to Vietnam.

Don't take your fantasy as a fact. It makes people laugh.

That island has never belonged to Vietnam in the past, and it is impossible for the future.

If you want to win the South China Sea, which is bigger than your entire territory, like a gambler in Las Vegas hysteria, take out your chips and gamble with China. Since we use facts to reason with you, but you always insist on your own ideas with illusions, let's not waste time on discussion. You directly suggest that your country should fight with China. If you win you get the South China Sea, if you lose, the whole Vietnam will belong to China. How about that?

 

[cochine]

Is this history made up by the Vietnamese? Please refer to the Chinese and French records for the history of Vietnam, don't make it up. Refer to international scholarly literature, not Vietnamese fiction, for world history.

Were the Vietnamese in WORLD War II?
Did the Vietnamese participate in the creation of the UN?
Did Vietnam have its own independent government in colonial times?

In colonial time, only Mekong Delta is under colonial regime, the rest Vietnam is still independence state, headed by Bao Dai emperor. France made protectorate for Annam Imperial.

In WWII, Viet Minh under leading of Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam fought counter occupation of Japan in Vietnam.

After WW II In San Francisco conference, Vietnam delegate was participated on, so Vietnam under Bao Dai has protested claim KMT ROC. The voting in following is rejected claim of KMT on East Sea of Vietnam.

Note that Vietnam warlord Nguen has been controlled Paracel and Spratly after 1600s when he had taken control over south Vietnam.

 

[cochine]

Don't take your fantasy as a fact. It makes people laugh.

That island has never belonged to Vietnam in the past, and it is impossible for the future.

If you want to win the South China Sea, which is bigger than your entire territory, like a gambler in Las Vegas hysteria, take out your chips and gamble with China. Since we use facts to reason with you, but you always insist on your own ideas with illusions, let's not waste time on discussion. You directly suggest that your country should fight with China. If you win you get the South China Sea, if you lose, the whole Vietnam will belong to China. How about that?

Stop lying and bully us.

Paracel and Spratly islands does belong to Vietnam from long time in the past. Before WW II, there was no dispute between Vietnam and China.

This is map of Vietnam in Nguyen Dynasty in 1800 with demonstration of Paracel and Spratly when Nguyen warlord has united Vietnam.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

I doubt his Viet guy a vietnamese. If China's historical claim is rejected, Vietnam can't claim them either.

IMO if Vietnam become too much of nuisance to China, it will be reannexed as its former Province of Annam.
That is why I will not take these Southern VC boys comments too seriously.

That was how in ancient history, the Kingdom of Kampa fell.
They were harassing the Kingdom of Annam and was even trying to annex it. But the opposite happened.

The Emperor of the Middle Kingdom decree that the Southern King of Han in Guangzhou send its army to destroy the Kingdom of Kampa. Together with the King of Annam, they brought about the destruction of the Kingdom of Kampa. Eversince then the Kingdom of Kampa disappeared.

Today these former descendants of Kampa, the Khmer Kron are still suffering from the inferiority complex and harbour racialist feeling towards the Northern Vietnamese and Chinese. They are brownish in skin color, short with wiry hairy. Their imner nature is describe as racist and filled with contempt for the others.

Now you know why North Vietnam and South are so different. But it is North Vietnam which conquered and reunited with the South. That is what is angering them. They cannot accept this reality.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Stop lying and bully us.

Paracel and Spratly islands does belong to Vietnam from long time in the past. Before WW II, there was no dispute between Vietnam and China.

This is map of Vietnam in Nguyen Dynasty in 1800 with demonstration of Paracel and Spratly when Nguyen warlord has united Vietnam.
View attachment 671740

Stop distorting ancuent history.
The Nguen dynasty were Chinese and also describe as so in French history.
All ancient and historical documents were written in Chinese.
Show me one ancient document that was recorded in Khmer or Annamese language other than those recorded in the Court of Chinese histories.
The King of Annam as a royal official served at the pleasure of the Emperor of the Middle Kingdom. In fact his ranking was below that of the King of Guangzhou.