European Commission to propose €750B EU recovery package

[Constantin84]

Of the €750billion, €500 billion will be distributed in the form of grants,and €250 billion in the form of loans....

https://www.politico.eu/article/commission-to-propose-recovery-instrument-of-e750-billion/

 

[UKBengali]

Excellent to see this solidarity from the richer nations to the hardest hit Covid-19 ones in the EU.

The major beneficiaries will be Italy and Spain that have been hardest hit by Covid-19, and even though the grants will be clawed back from the EU budget, I think it will in effect be at the expense of countries like Poland who have been least affected. Countries like Poland have been doing well economically and so I do not think it will hamper their development that much by getting less from the EU in future years

A very good decision and will go a long way to assuage some of the anger felt by Italians at the lack of assistance from the EU initially.


@Vergennes
@Constantin84

Your thoughts on this would be welcome.

 

[Constantin84]

Even the loans are good.....repayment starts from 2027 up until 2058

 

[Vergennes]

And that is alongside recovery plans taken by different EU nations on national level..... in France it is €450 billion....

 

[Constantin84]

Excellent to see this solidarity from the richer nations to the hardest hit Covid-19 ones in the EU.

The major beneficiaries will be Italy and Spain that have been hardest hit by Covid-19, and even though the grants will be clawed back from the EU budget, I think it will in effect be at the expense of countries like Poland who have been least affected. Countries like Poland have been doing well economically and so I do not think it will hamper their development that much by getting less from the EU in future years

A very good decision and will go a long way to assuage some of the anger felt by Italians at the lack of assistance from the EU initially.


@Vergennes
@Constantin84

Your thoughts on this would be welcome.

I don't think this means less money. I just found out now that Romania will get €33B from those 750, on top of the already EU structural funds it gets.

Update @UKBengali

Apparently....for Romania: It's €31.2B...€19.62B are grants (free money) and €11.58B are loans, but as I've said the loans are different from your regular IMF loan as repayment can take 30 years and the interest is very small....

for other countries:
Italy €172B ,Spain €140B, Poland €64B ...that's extra on what it already gets, mind you....France 39B....Greece 32 B

 

[UKBengali]

I don't think this means less money. I just found out now that Romania will get €33B from those 750, on top of the already EU structural funds it gets.

Update @UKBengali

Apparently....for Romania: It's €31.2B...€19.62B are grants (free money) and €11.58B are loans, but as I've said the loans are different from your regular IMF loan as repayment can take 30 years and the interest is very small....

for other countries:
Italy €172B ,Spain €140B, Poland €64B ...that's extra on what it already gets, mind you....France 39B....Greece 32 B

From what I hear the grants will be paid out of the EU structural funds and so countries like Poland that are barely affected by Covid-19 and get lots of structural funds will lose out.

It all depends on how much a country gets from this fund in grants compared to any loss from structural funds in the future.

 

[BHAN85]

Give loans is not solidarity, it's bussiness.

Money in a short-term, slavery in a long-term.

EU is a bad bussiness for the most of people today. It was something good decades ago, but not from 2008 until today.

Only ruling elites are beneficiary with this, it's some kind of legal corruption.

 

[BHAN85]

Since 2008, Spain is to ECB like Argentina is to IMF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_and_the_International_Monetary_Fund

EU and Euro was a good thing (for the south) when Alemania had surplus production to place in less industrialized European states, before 2008 crisis.

EU and ECB loans like any trap, it's easy to fall and hard to escape.

A politician who take a loan for decades when its mandate is for 4 years, is some kind of legal criminal.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/aug/26/spain-constitutional-cap-deficit

Spanish politicians changed the constitution in 2011 to pay the debt in first place. With no referendum. with no discussion,
Can be something less democratic?

I dont give a f*ck if gays can be married, I dont give a f*ck if abort is legal, paid, or illegal with capital punishment.
And those things make eternal political discussions, and fill thousands of newspapers.
Meanwhile things like external debt are accepted by almost all parties without consult the people.

Well, I hope this will not be eternal. Here in Spain, Vox, a ultra right wing party is the current third political force. Maybe they will put order in the future .

 

[Constantin84]

Since 2008, Spain is to ECB like Argentina is to IMF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_and_the_International_Monetary_Fund

EU and Euro was a good thing (for the south) when Alemania had surplus production to place in less industrialized European states, before 2008 crisis.

EU and ECB loans like any trap, it's easy to fall and hard to escape.

A politician who take a loan for decades when its mandate is for 4 years, is some kind of legal criminal.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2011/aug/26/spain-constitutional-cap-deficit

Spanish politicians changed the constitution in 2011 to pay the debt in first place. With no referendum. with no discussion,
Can be something less democratic?

I dont give a f*ck if gays can be married, I dont give a f*ck if abort is legal, paid, or illegal with capital punishment.
And those things make eternal political discussions, and fill thousands of newspapers.
Meanwhile things like external debt are accepted by almost all parties without consult the people.

Well, I hope this will not be eternal. Here in Spain, Vox, a ultra right wing party is the current third political force. Maybe they will put order in the future .

So, what exactly do you propose? Spain needs those money. 2/3 of the money are grants anyway (free money) while the 1/3 which is a loan could be refused.

 

[Constantin84]

From what I hear the grants will be paid out of the EU structural funds and so countries like Poland that are barely affected by Covid-19 and get lots of structural funds will lose out.

It all depends on how much a country gets from this fund in grants compared to any loss from structural funds in the future.

The 2021 2027 EU budget will be €1100 billion, similar to the 2014 2020. On top of of this we will have the 750billion Next Generation EU rescue package wich Von der Leyen hopes it will be paid by all EU citizens with new taxes across the EU.

 

[UKBengali]

The 2021 2027 EU budget will be €1100 billion, similar to the 2014 2020. On top of of this we will have the 750billion Next Generation EU rescue package wich Von der Leyen hopes it will be paid by all EU citizens with new taxes across the EU.

Oh ok, I was not aware of that. This will make it a bit harder to sell with some members like Germany, Austria and Netherlands then.

I think the European commission has done a good job and this takes some of the arguments away from the richer smaller northern states(supported by the Germans secretly) to not share the burden of this once in a lifetime pandemic.

Countries like Italy and Spain must have these cash grants in order to survive economically as they are so much in debt already and dependent on tourism which has been the worst hit by the pandemic.


Conte has done well and seems to have been an effective leader for his country(Italy) during this time unlike the clown Johnson here in the UK. Johnson is just going from bad to worse and even the rightwing Daily Telegraph has no respect for him anymore.

 

[Constantin84]

Oh ok, I was not aware of that. This will make it a bit harder to sell with some members like Germany, Austria and Netherlands then.

I think the European commission has done a good job and this takes some of the arguments away from the richer smaller northern states(supported by the Germans secretly) to not share the burden of this once in a lifetime pandemic.

Countries like Italy and Spain must have these cash grants in order to survive economically as they are so much in debt already and dependent on tourism which has been the worst hit by the pandemic.


Conte has done well and seems to have been an effective leader for his country(Italy) during this time unlike the clown Johnson here in the UK. Johnson is just going from bad to worse and even the rightwing Daily Telegraph has no respect for him anymore.

Germany is allready on board, it's Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands who have to be convinced.
All these money have to be invested in new projects to create jobs and ofcourse new sources of income, from infrastructure to new technologies. If we're going to spend it in covering budget deficites, unsustainable social programs (aka hand outs) ,we're doomed.By "we" I mean Eastern and Southern Europe.

 

[UKBengali]

Germany is allready on board, it's Austria, Sweden, Denmark and the Netherlands who have to be convinced.
All these money have to be invested in new projects to create jobs and ofcourse new sources of income, from infrastructure to new technologies. If we're going to spend it in covering budget deficites, unsustainable social programs (aka hand outs) ,we're doomed.By "we" I mean Eastern and Southern Europe.

I think if Germany and France are on board then it will pass. Smaller countries will not be able to hold out over the intense pressure being put on them by the larger countries.

People thought that France was supporting it due to self-interest but looks like it will not be a net beneficiary after-all.

 

[Constantin84]

I think if Germany and France are on board then it will pass. Smaller countries will not be able to hold out over the intense pressure being put on them by the larger countries.

People thought that France was supporting it due to self-interest but looks like it will not be a net beneficiary after-all.

Yep, France will get peanuts. The winners are Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece. Greece gets more than Romania, with a smaller economy and half the population.

 

[UKBengali]

Yep, France will get peanuts. The winners are Italy, Spain, Poland, Greece. Greece gets more than Romania, with a smaller economy and half the population.

I think Greece is getting more due to it being a richer country than Romania and the damage to tourism which they are so reliant on.

Like I say EU commission has done a good job here as the whole future of the EU was on the line.