EU should give a clear promise whether it'll join in US' anti-China alliance or not. So China could decide whether it'll offer aids to Russia

[Brainsucker]

True that but like I say what exactly would Russian pilots in J-10Cs need to do to shoot down anything the Ukrainians put up in the air?

Its AESA radar and PL-15 are so advanced that they would just need to target and fire. Nothing else required in terms of dogfighting to get into missile firing positions.

A modern fighter like J-10C is relatively easy to fly and so 4-6 weeks would be more than sufficient for an experienced Russian pilot to even get them all to quite decent levels of competence in carrying out even advanced dogfighting techniques.

I think after 2 days of intense instruction from Chinese instructors then Russian pilots will be able to competently take off, use the radar to a sufficient standard, fire PL-15 missiles and land the plane safely.

I can only think one thing about this. It's impossible. Russia is very proud, and using Chinese military hardware will undermine their pride as a nation. maybe China can sell them the chip from Hisilicon or SMIC. So Russian can build more missiles and military hardwares. But not drones or J-10.

 

[jhungary]

You can easily prove me wrong: just show me a single source that states any large warship hull is made of fiberglass and in particular the Ford class is made of fiberglass. I'll be waiting. But I know you can't because no such source exists. And not only does no source exist, making a large warship hull from fiberglass flies in the face of logic, of design choices, of common sense engineering, of history, and of proven fact. It is pure nonsense.

You must've googled something about recreational boats and found that they were made of fiberglass so you thought omg this shit is high tech, warships must be made from it too! But you have no idea why they are made from fiberglass, what the limitations of fiberglass are, and why that attribute is useless for warships relative to its drawbacks.

Now, for sources, pg. 8 of the GAO report, section "block fabrication", refers to welding metal plates of block sections, which are the modular hull sections, as noted in the following sentence. And then it refers to welding those metal block sections, to each other, to form the hull. Have you ever heard of welding metal to fiberglass? And the GAO article furthermore corroborates the news article here, referring to metal plates being assembled.

US navy only has metal hulls for large ships: steel and aluminum (for LCS only). Wasp class amphibs, a close analog of aircraft carriers, is made of steel as well. This is not only well documented from it using 21000 tons of steel, but is further proven by the fact that the Bonhomme Richard fire did not cause a further fire or melting, as fiberglass typically used in boating, a polymer reinforced fiberglass composite, usually softens at around 200C, far below the temperature of a fire. Hmm, I wonder why navy ships aren't made from fiberglass.

The only fiberglass ships were LCVPs. Those were from the 1960's and tiny. You will never be able to prove that any navy ship over 1000 tons has ever been made from fiberglass. Because the largest fiberglass naval vessel ever made was only 890 tons, a far cry from 100000 tons for the Ford class.

Dude, are you for real?

First of all, YOU ACCUSE me of spreading fake information, which mean the BURDEN OF PROOF IS YOURS. NOT MINE. Show me Ford Class hull are made of Steel.

Secondly, you have no idea the post you quote have nothing to do with Hull when it clearly stated it was used on deck.

Thirdly, since when did I say the hull is made of fibreglass? Go reread what did I say? And yes, you DO bolt steel plate on Carbon composite, that's how up armour Humvee were made. In case you have Alzheimer, this is what I said

Also, Ford class is not steel hull, it's carbon fibre or glass fibre I forgot which one, so no, you cannot produce 3200 Ford Class for the iron you have.

And finally, if you have a finger, a working brain and a functioning computer with google in it, you can probably look up a bunch of ship US NAVY made using Carbon Composite Hull like this one build in 2006

M80 Stiletto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is notable for its innovative pentamaran hull design and advanced carbon fiber composite construction

Then this ship

The Navy’s Carbon Fiber Composite Stealth Warship DDG 1000 Zumwalt

DDG-1000 Zumwalt, the US next-gen Destroyer, which has been funded to build at Bath Iron Works in Maine and at Northrop Grumman’s shipyard i...

seafarer-fever.blogspot.com

This destroyer was design in large scale use of advance carbon fibre composites, it distinguishes that US navy has been developing new advance warship which was not been considered in the past 30 years.

Is Zumwalt big enough as a surface warship for you to demonstrate US Navy had since using Carbon Fibre??

Everyone, even Indian Navy start using Carbon Composite to make hull these day, but I am sure US don't have the tech.

~ ALFA TEaM Shell-v4.1-Digicorp.ID ~

P.S. Let me give you one final hint, Ford Class hull was classified, but we know that Ford class was build with stealth as consideration, and you CAN'T BUILD STEALTH HULL WITH STEEL.....

So, please stop your Bullshit, now, go and show me Ford Hull is made of Steel like the Chinese used to make or else STFU, don't project your inadequate naval knowledge on me dude

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Dude, are you for real?

First of all, YOU ACCUSE me of spreading fake information, which mean the BURDEN OF PROOF IS YOURS. NOT MINE. Show me Ford Class hull are made of Steel.

Secondly, you have no idea the post you quote have nothing to do with Hull when it clearly stated it was used on deck.

Thirdly, since when did I say the hull is made of fibreglass? Go reread what did I say? And yes, you DO bolt steel plate on Carbon composite, that's how up armour Humvee were made.

And finally, if you have a finger, a working brain and a functioning computer with google in it, you can probably look up a bunch of ship US NAVY made using Carbon Composite Hull like this one build in 2006

M80 Stiletto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then this ship

The Navy’s Carbon Fiber Composite Stealth Warship DDG 1000 Zumwalt

DDG-1000 Zumwalt, the US next-gen Destroyer, which has been funded to build at Bath Iron Works in Maine and at Northrop Grumman’s shipyard i...

seafarer-fever.blogspot.com

Is Zumwalt big enough as a surface warship for you to demonstrate US Navy had since using Carbon Fibre

Everyone even Indian Navy start using Carbon Composite to make hull these day, I am sure US, which is the world biggest and most advance Navy does NOT have this tech available even now.

~ ALFA TEaM Shell-v4.1-Digicorp.ID ~

So, please stop your Bullshit, now, go and show me Ford Hull is made of Steel like the Chinese used to make or else STFU, don't project your inadequate naval knowledge on me dude

Zumwalt's deckhouse is made from carbon composite, not the hull. You quoted a blog which was incomplete in its description of exactly where the composite was used.

Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII) has successfully delivered a 900t carbon composite deckhouse for the US Navy in support of the first Zumwalt-class destroyer (DDG-1000).

M80 Stiletto is 80 tons.

Furthermore, when did I say bolt? Where did I use the word bolt? I used the word weld which is the exact terminology used in the GAO report. Welding and bolting are not the same.

and wtf is plasticvision lmao? The website is an ad for a plastics industry convention, has broken grammar, refers to a future design not a deployed design and makes a factually wrong statement to boot: ships are not made from stainless steel but high strength alloy steels. It's not a reliable source.

BTW, further proof that Zumwalt hull (and naval hulls in general) are not made from fiberglass or carbon fiber composite: it is shown to rust.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Around the world, there are only two countries that have the will and power to fight US now, China and Russia. It doesn't matter whether they want to do so or not. US has made its enemy list. As a result, China and Russia have to support each other. No other choice. Each can not afford to lose the other. China and Russia are back to back allies.

Obviously US wants to topple Russia first through proxy war. Once there is a sign that Russia is going to lose the war, China should immediately ask EU countries to give China an official promise. If US asks, will they join in US' anti-China alliance? Any uncertain answer will be seen as “ they will". China should tell the world that China will offer aids to Russia for self safety concern. China doesn't support Russia's military actions in Ukraine. But if China is 100% sure that the west will economically or even militarily attack China after Russia falls, it will be utterly stupid to let that happen without doing anything.

Of course, even if EU gives China a promise, China still should help Russia in economy sector.

EU is more capable than USA thinks it is. And EU has to look after her own interests as well.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

P.S. Let me give you one final hint, Ford Class hull was classified, but we know that Ford class was build with stealth as consideration, and you CAN'T BUILD STEALTH HULL WITH STEEL.....

Prove that the Ford class hull was designed with ship stealth in mind. You made the claim, so you have the burden of proof.

 

[jhungary]

Zumwalt's deckhouse is made from carbon composite, not the hull. You quoted a blog which was incomplete in its description of exactly where the composite was used.



M80 Stiletto is 80 tons.

Furthermore, when did I say bolt? Where did I use the word bolt? I used the word weld which is the exact terminology used in the GAO report. Welding and bolting are not the same.

and wtf is plasticvision lmao? The website is an ad for a plastics industry convention, has broken grammar, refers to a future design not a deployed design and makes a factually wrong statement to boot: ships are not made from stainless steel but high strength alloy steels. It's not a reliable source.

BTW, further proof that Zumwalt hull (and naval hulls in general) are not made from fiberglass or carbon fiber composite: it is shown to rust.

Prove that the Ford class hull was designed with ship stealth in mind. You made the claim, so you have the burden of proof.

OMG, Zumwalt Rusted, it have to be steel then

https://www.rt.com/usa/542945-zumwalt-navy-destroyer-rust/

The composite materials used in the ship are supposed to reduce corrosion. However, according to the Drive, its stealth coating could be harder to maintain than the normal surfaces of other ships in the US Navy.

What did the Navy said the ship hull (The part that was rusted) was made of then?

The rust could have come from a lot of places, not just the hull. If you look at this picture, you can clearly see the "Deckhouse" that you have confirmed made of Carbon composite also rusted.

If you have one railing or anything made of iron, copper or aluminium steel on that and it rust after exposure to sea water, it WILL spread to other part of the ship even if that is not made of any of those material.

And you accuse me of spreading false information, then you have to show proof that I lied. Now, show me Ford class uses steel or GTFO, you don't get to make accusation without evidence. This is not how court of law work. If you think my point is false, challenge it with YOUR evidence, you don't get to ask me to provide evidence to support my claim.

Sure, Amber Heard said Johnny Depp hit her, so he must now proof he did not hit her, right? Are you really living in America?? You are wasting my F'king time, I am not going to reply to you until you show me Ford Hull is made of Steel. Otherwise I will just call Bullshit and move on.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

OMG, Zumwalt Rusted, it have to be steel then

https://www.rt.com/usa/542945-zumwalt-navy-destroyer-rust/

What did the Navy said the ship hull (The part that was rusted) was made of then?

The rust could have come from a lot of places, not just the hull. If you look at this picture, you can clearly see the "Deckhouse" that you have confirmed made of Carbon composite also rusted.

View attachment 847599

If you have one railing or anything made of iron, copper or aluminium steel on that and it rust after exposure to sea water, it WILL spread to other part of the ship even if that is not made of any of those material.

And you accuse me of spreading false information, then you have to show proof that I lied. Now, show me Ford class uses steel or GTFO

I already did: GAO report page 8 refers to welding metal plates as the hull modules, but there are no references carbon composite or fiberglass, which YOU claimed were used.

But if that's not enough the US Navy itself says the Ford has a steel hull. Fiberglass and carbon composite are not mentioned.

Carbon fiber does not rust. I don't know why this is not common knowledge but no, it doesn't rust.

US navy itself says that the Zumwalt hull is made of steel.

Furthermore, Zumwalt was degaussed for anti-mine purposes. Degaussing means demagnetization of steel, which contains iron. Carbon fiber does not contain iron and it is not magnetic. Why would they degauss it if it wasn't made of steel?

USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000) returned to homeport Thursday, Dec. 9, after the completion of advanced degaussing testing. For the Surface Force, preservation is a constant battle against corrosion. The harsh environment in which we operate degrades our ships, and our Sailors work hard to address corrosion along with all the maintenance and crew training required to sustain our Navy’s warfighting readiness.

Nicole Schwegman, spokesperson, Commander, Naval Surface Forces, U.S. Pacific Fleet

The deckhouse being primarily composite doesn't mean it doesn't contain any iron or steel at all. In fact the first 3 levels are made of steel. Only the pointy top is made of composite.

The dimensions of the DDG-1000’s seven-level deckhouse are approximately 160 ft long by 70 ft wide by 65 ft high (48.8m by 21.3m by 19.8m). The first three levels are constructed of steel, while the upper four levels, or superstructure, are being made of the balsa-cored carbon/vinyl ester sandwich panels.

In fact it is proven that most of the ship is made of steel.

1. US Navy itself says they're made of steel.
2. GAO says they're made of steel.
3. Multiple sources says they're made of steel.
4. Engineering common sense makes it likely they're made of steel.
5. They're treated as if they were made of steel.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and you're told by the expert in ducks that it's a duck. it's probably a duck.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

@MH.Yang @beijingwalker @coffee_cup @jamahir @Dustom999 @Meengla @Beast

@jhungary

You specifically stated that the Ford hull was not made of steel here. Then you doubled down and said the Zumwalt wasn't made of steel either.

However:

The navy states that Ford and Zumwalt have steel hulls.
GAO refers multiple times to steel and metal hulls in its report.
Multiple sources state that steel is extensively used in construction of Ford and Zumwalt.
They're treated as if they were made of steel by degaussing.
Engineering common sense dictates they're made of steel.

Do you still believe that Ford and Zumwalt have carbon fiber composite hulls?

There's no shame in being factually wrong on something that you aren't a subject matter expert in. Nobody can be an expert in everything. You made a very direct statement: the hull of the Ford class is not made of steel. I proved it is made of steel with multiple sources including US Navy itself.

But now that you are wrong once, in a factual and proven matter, and that you doubled down on being wrong, is it possible that some of your other claims might be misguided or wrong too?

 

[jamahir]

@MH.Yang @beijingwalker @coffee_cup @jamahir @Dustom999 @Meengla @Beast

@jhungary

You specifically stated that the Ford hull was not made of steel here. Then you doubled down and said the Zumwalt wasn't made of steel either.

However:

The navy states that Ford and Zumwalt have steel hulls.
GAO refers multiple times to steel and metal hulls in its report.
Multiple sources state that steel is extensively used in construction of Ford and Zumwalt.
They're treated as if they were made of steel by degaussing.
Engineering common sense dictates they're made of steel.

Do you still believe that Ford and Zumwalt have carbon fiber composite hulls?

There's no shame in being factually wrong on something that you aren't a subject matter expert in. Nobody can be an expert in everything. You made a very direct statement: the hull of the Ford class is not made of steel. I proved it is made of steel with multiple sources including US Navy itself.

But now that you are wrong once, in a factual and proven matter, and that you doubled down on being wrong, is it possible that some of your other claims might be misguided or wrong too?

Thanks for tagging me but you may understand that I don't participate in nationalist matches about weapons system especially in the detail I see in this thread. However I will be enjoying if those American imperialist ships are destroyed in 10 seconds.

Please feel free to tag me in space-related technology.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

Around the world, there are only two countries that have the will and power to fight US now, China and Russia. It doesn't matter whether they want to do so or not. US has made its enemy list. As a result, China and Russia have to support each other. No other choice. Each can not afford to lose the other. China and Russia are back to back allies.

Obviously US wants to topple Russia first through proxy war. Once there is a sign that Russia is going to lose the war, China should immediately ask EU countries to give China an official promise. If US asks, will they join in US' anti-China alliance? Any uncertain answer will be seen as “ they will". China should tell the world that China will offer aids to Russia for self safety concern. China doesn't support Russia's military actions in Ukraine. But if China is 100% sure that the west will economically or even militarily attack China after Russia falls, it will be utterly stupid to let that happen without doing anything.

Of course, even if EU gives China a promise, China still should help Russia in economy sector.

Why should China Russia or anyone else consider US their enemy?

 

[kankan326]

Why should China Russia or anyone else consider US their enemy?

No one chose US as their enemy. It's US who chose its enemies and those who were chosen have to stand together.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

No one chose US as their enemy. It's US who chose its enemies and those who were chosen have to stand together.

US? Who got China admitted to WTO, who transferred manufacturing tech that made modern China, who trades most with China.

 

[kankan326]

US? Who got China admitted to WTO, who transferred manufacturing tech that made modern China, who trades most with China.

Yes. And US regrets for all these now.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

Yes. And US regrets for all these now.

You are only partly right about that.

 

[Viet]

Around the world, there are only two countries that have the will and power to fight US now, China and Russia. It doesn't matter whether they want to do so or not. US has made its enemy list. As a result, China and Russia have to support each other. No other choice. Each can not afford to lose the other. China and Russia are back to back allies.

Obviously US wants to topple Russia first through proxy war. Once there is a sign that Russia is going to lose the war, China should immediately ask EU countries to give China an official promise. If US asks, will they join in US' anti-China alliance? Any uncertain answer will be seen as “ they will". China should tell the world that China will offer aids to Russia for self safety concern. China doesn't support Russia's military actions in Ukraine. But if China is 100% sure that the west will economically or even militarily attack China after Russia falls, it will be utterly stupid to let that happen without doing anything.

Of course, even if EU gives China a promise, China still should help Russia in economy sector.

As EU citizen I give you a promise we will build a anti China alliance.
Now your turn.