Ethnic Pamiri of China part of Kashmir India/ Pakistan ? Are they related with Kalash, Hunza ?

[ManUNITEDglory]

I haven't seen anyone talk about this but there's a ethnic group in China's Xinjiang called " Pamiri " and physically they look 100% just like the ethnic Kalash, Hunza who live in Indian's/Pakistan Kashmir. It's hard to be believe they don't belong to the same origin considering their close geographic locations. That part of Xinjiang ( Uyghurs territory ) which is now all part of China's territory historically belong to the ingenious Pamiri people. They are also indigenous to east Tajikistan. They are considered different people by ethnic Tajiks. The Tajiks don't consider them Tajiks. The Uyghurs of Xinjiang also don't consider them the same.

Should these people part of Kashmir region of India/Pakistan ?

Ethnic Pamiri (Sarikol speakers ) in China

History

Tashkurgan Town became the capital of the Sarikol kingdom (色勒库尔), a kingdom of the Pamir Mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashkurgan_Town#History

Their kingdom dates back at least 2000 years ago or even 200 BC while the Uyghurs only started migrating around 842 AD

Ethnic Kalash/Hunza people

Even in terms of genetics they are 80-85% West Eurasian, 15-20% South Asian.

 

[Ocean]

I haven't seen anyone talk about this but there's a ethnic group in China's Xinjiang called " Pamiri " and physically they look 100% just like the ethnic Kalash, Hunza who live in Indian's/Pakistan Kashmir. It's hard to be believe they don't belong to the same origin considering their close geographic locations. That part of Xinjiang ( Uyghurs territory ) which is now all part of China's territory historically belong to the ingenious Pamiri people. They are also indigenous to east Tajikistan. They are considered different people by ethnic Tajiks. The Tajiks don't consider them Tajiks. The Uyghurs of Xinjiang also don't consider them the same.

Should these people part of Kashmir region of India/Pakistan ?

Ethnic Pamiri (Sarikol speakers ) in China

History

Tashkurgan Town became the capital of the Sarikol kingdom (色勒库尔), a kingdom of the Pamir Mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashkurgan_Town#History

Their kingdom dates back at least 2000 years ago or even 200 BC while the Uyghurs only started migrating around 842 AD

Ethnic Burusho/Hunza people

Even in terms of genetics they are 80-85% West Eurasian, 15-20% South Asian.

Pamiris are found in gb areas along China border. Afaik they were of mongol stock but i could be wrong.

Anyways, @bananarepublic @krash

I haven't seen anyone talk about this but there's a ethnic group in China's Xinjiang called " Pamiri " and physically they look 100% just like the ethnic Kalash, Hunza who live in Indian's/Pakistan Kashmir. It's hard to be believe they don't belong to the same origin considering their close geographic locations. That part of Xinjiang ( Uyghurs territory ) which is now all part of China's territory historically belong to the ingenious Pamiri people. They are also indigenous to east Tajikistan. They are considered different people by ethnic Tajiks. The Tajiks don't consider them Tajiks. The Uyghurs of Xinjiang also don't consider them the same.

Should these people part of Kashmir region of India/Pakistan ?

Ethnic Pamiri (Sarikol speakers ) in China

History

Tashkurgan Town became the capital of the Sarikol kingdom (色勒库尔), a kingdom of the Pamir Mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashkurgan_Town#History

Their kingdom dates back at least 2000 years ago or even 200 BC while the Uyghurs only started migrating around 842 AD

Ethnic Burusho/Hunza people

Even in terms of genetics they are 80-85% West Eurasian, 15-20% South Asian.

Also y u have posted pics of kailash people and hunzaiites?

Gb has shina speakers in gilgit , brusho in hunza , baltis in skardu region. Also there are wakhees too.

But what amkes me curious is, is their any ethnic link between ethnic groups in gb and hazzars from balochistan as hazzaras have mongol ancestry,

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pamiris are found in gb areas along China border. Afaik they were of mongol stock but i could be wrong.

Anyways, @bananarepublic @krash

Mongol stock?

Ah well, as the ancients never said, novi semper aliquid ab Oceani.

 

[Ocean]

novi semper aliquid ab Oceani.

Then u should thank me for introducing u to new knowledge.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

They were nomadic people and hence ended up there, they are most likely Dardic people and hence will mostly associate with Pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Then u should thank me for introducing u to new knowledge.

Didn't you read my comment?

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

They were nomadic people and hence ended up there, they are most likely Dardic people and hence will mostly associate with Pakistan.

Here's a map of ingenious linguistic families. They don't seem to belong to the Dardic language family but are Indo-Europeans aswell.

Only the blue part is considered Indo-European. They speak a language similar to Tajiks but I have no idea if their original language was related with Tajiks or not.

Pamiris are found in gb areas along China border. Afaik they were of mongol stock but i could be wrong.

Anyways, @bananarepublic @krash



Also y u have posted pics of kailash people and hunzaiites?

Gb has shina speakers in gilgit , brusho in hunza , baltis in skardu region. Also there are wakhees too.

But what amkes me curious is, is their any ethnic link between ethnic groups in gb and hazzars from balochistan as hazzaras have mongol ancestry,

They were never of Mongol stock it is the Uyghurs who were originally of Mongol stick although modern day Uyghurs are partial Mongol. The Pamiri ancestors could have been the ancient Tocharians or other Iranian related population who survived the Mongol-Uyghur invasions.

According to the paper by Li et al.:

... the western East Asians are more closely related to Uyghurs than the eastern East Asians. ... STRUCTURE cannot distinguish recent admixture from a cline of other origin, and these analyses cannot prove admixture in the Uyghurs; however, historical records indicate that the present Uyghurs were formed by admixture between Tocharians from the west and Orkhon Uyghurs (Wugusi-Huihu, according to present Chinese pronunciation) from the east in the 8th century AD. The Uyghur Empire was originally located in Mongolia and conquered the Tocharian tribes in Xinjiang. Tocharians such as Kroran have been shown by archaeological findings to appear phenotypically similar to northern and central Europeans, whereas the Orkhon Uyghur people were clearly Mongolians. The two groups of people subsequently mixed in Xinjiang to become one population, the present Uyghurs. We do not know the genetic constitution of the Tocharians, but if they were similar to western Siberians, such as the Khanty, admixture would already be biased toward similarity with East Asian populations.


UYGHURS = mixture of Turkic Uyghurs invaders and Iranian Tocharian

Ancient Uyghurs looked like this

Uyghurs today look like this like a mix of Mongol and Indo-European and they speak Turkic languages

Sarikol Pamiri pure Caucasian phenotypes, they also have DNA related with Indians/Pakistani like all people in Kashmir.

 

[bananarepublic]

Here's a map of ingenious linguistic families. They don't seem to belong to the Dardic language family but are Indo-Europeans aswell.

Only the blue part is considered Indo-European. They speak a language similar to Tajiks but I have no idea if their original language was related with Tajiks or not.

They were never of Mongol stock it is the Uyghurs who were originally of Mongol stick although modern day Uyghurs are partial Mongol. The Pamiri ancestors could have been the ancient Tocharians or other Iranian related population who survived the Mongol-Uyghur invasions.

According to the paper by Li et al.:

... the western East Asians are more closely related to Uyghurs than the eastern East Asians. ... STRUCTURE cannot distinguish recent admixture from a cline of other origin, and these analyses cannot prove admixture in the Uyghurs; however, historical records indicate that the present Uyghurs were formed by admixture between Tocharians from the west and Orkhon Uyghurs (Wugusi-Huihu, according to present Chinese pronunciation) from the east in the 8th century AD. The Uyghur Empire was originally located in Mongolia and conquered the Tocharian tribes in Xinjiang. Tocharians such as Kroran have been shown by archaeological findings to appear phenotypically similar to northern and central Europeans, whereas the Orkhon Uyghur people were clearly Mongolians. The two groups of people subsequently mixed in Xinjiang to become one population, the present Uyghurs. We do not know the genetic constitution of the Tocharians, but if they were similar to western Siberians, such as the Khanty, admixture would already be biased toward similarity with East Asian populations.


UYGHURS = mixture of Turkic Uyghurs invaders and Iranian Tocharian

Ancient Uyghurs looked like this

Uyghurs today look like this like a mix of Mongol and Indo-European and they speak Turkic languages

Sarikol Pamiri pure Caucasian phenotypes, they also have DNA related with Indians/Pakistani like all people in Kashmir.

the good thing is Pamiri history has been very thoroughly recorded i am a pamiri origin myself.
the current areas where pamiris i.e wakhani like were initially under the rule of local states e.g state of hunza while the areas where the pamiris live in china (at that time even before the british invaded the subcontinent) were under the rule of the Chinese emirates pamirs at further north i.e current day Afghanistan and Tajikistan were more connected to us at the current day pakistan the greater divide between the pamiris came when the British and the Russians divided the region while connections with them remained until the creation of pakistan.
to sum it all up we have no claim on the pamiri areas of china as they have never been under control of pakistan except for some pastures ceded to china for some other areas, nor have the states under british control or even before that .
the pamiris in the ghizer and chitral region are more recent migrants coming from Afghanistan and Tajikistan which can be clearly seen with the accent of wakhi they speak, also the kalashi have no relation whatsoever with us the are the oldest tribe living in this region even before us with a completely different culture .

 

[Sanchez]

Ethnic “Pamiri” call themselves Tajiks，speaking in Iranian-derived dialect. They are not related to so called Kashmir region. The Ladakh area was part of Chinese Tibet and was annexed by the Sikhs and later British to Kashmir region in the 19th century.

Earliest Aryan settlement in China dates back to 4000-5000 years ago. There's no direct link between them and presnet day ethnic groups in Northwest China. The Chinese minorities are more with central and north Asian background.

 

[Hrk19]

I haven't seen anyone talk about this but there's a ethnic group in China's Xinjiang called " Pamiri " and physically they look 100% just like the ethnic Kalash, Hunza who live in Indian's/Pakistan Kashmir. It's hard to be believe they don't belong to the same origin considering their close geographic locations. That part of Xinjiang ( Uyghurs territory ) which is now all part of China's territory historically belong to the ingenious Pamiri people. They are also indigenous to east Tajikistan. They are considered different people by ethnic Tajiks. The Tajiks don't consider them Tajiks. The Uyghurs of Xinjiang also don't consider them the same.

Should these people part of Kashmir region of India/Pakistan ?

Ethnic Pamiri (Sarikol speakers ) in China

History

Tashkurgan Town became the capital of the Sarikol kingdom (色勒库尔), a kingdom of the Pamir Mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashkurgan_Town#History

Their kingdom dates back at least 2000 years ago or even 200 BC while the Uyghurs only started migrating around 842 AD

Ethnic Kalash/Hunza people

Even in terms of genetics they are 80-85% West Eurasian, 15-20% South Asian.

ya know pamiri is the closest language to waziri pashto
we use most ish of the same words
again,sort of

 

[Dalit]

To us Pakistanis it doesn't matter wherever they came from. They are Pakistanis. Last year I visited the Kalash with my in-laws who belong to Chitral. These people are fiercely patriotic Pakistanis.

The world is always so fixated in finding out why these people are living in Pakistan. During my journey to Chitral I found out that the EU was funding these areas and grooming them for whatever reason.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Sher Shah Awan @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Kaptaan @Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer


Friends,

The origins of these people is Eurasia... there were mummies found in China with red hair and whatnot... please, visit that historical fact for further validation.

The truth of the matter is that Eurasians have been coming, settling and tradding with Ancient Pak, China and Persia for a long time. These 'Aryans' were also the stock from where the Persians 'evolved'.

Ancient routes are still there... along with burried cities in the Steppes' Sands...

World is far more fascinating than the PDF's knowledge base.

One thing which nobody talks about/elaborate is the Fact that there are Stonehendges in Pak's Northern Area... going back thousands of years...

What are they doing there? Where they came from? Who built them? Why?

Perhaps you, esteemed gentlemen, know some more... would be nice if you could share this knowledge with us novices.

Regards,

Mangus

 

[django]

@Sher Shah Awan @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Kaptaan @Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer


Friends,

The origins of these people is Eurasia... there were mummies found in China with red hair and whatnot... please, visit that historical fact for further validation.

The truth of the matter is that Eurasians have been coming, settling and tradding with Ancient Pak, China and Persia for a long time. These 'Aryans' were also the stock from where the Persians 'evolved'.

Ancient routes are still there... along with burried cities in the Steppes' Sands...

World is far more fascinating than the PDF's knowledge base.

One thing which nobody talks about/elaborate is the Fact that there are Stonehendges in Pak's Northern Area... going back thousands of years...

What are they doing there? Where they came from? Who built them? Why?

Perhaps you, esteemed gentlemen, know some more... would be nice if you could share this knowledge with us novices.

Regards,

Mangus

In regards to the red haired mummies, those folks were most likely Tocharian who may well have founded the Kushan empire, folks with appearance you described are not uncommon to find in highlands of KPK/Northen Areas/Afghanistan/Tajikstan.Kudos Sir

 

[Pakistani E]

@Sher Shah Awan @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Kaptaan @Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer


Friends,

The origins of these people is Eurasia... there were mummies found in China with red hair and whatnot... please, visit that historical fact for further validation.

The truth of the matter is that Eurasians have been coming, settling and tradding with Ancient Pak, China and Persia for a long time. These 'Aryans' were also the stock from where the Persians 'evolved'.

Ancient routes are still there... along with burried cities in the Steppes' Sands...

World is far more fascinating than the PDF's knowledge base.

One thing which nobody talks about/elaborate is the Fact that there are Stonehendges in Pak's Northern Area... going back thousands of years...

What are they doing there? Where they came from? Who built them? Why?

Perhaps you, esteemed gentlemen, know some more... would be nice if you could share this knowledge with us novices.

Regards,

Mangus

In my opinion, and I will confess I have no great knowledge in this matter, they are most likely the remnants of ancient Iranic populations of this area which is now divided between several countries, maybe of Sogdian or Tocharian stock. My personal compass leans more towards a Sogdian origin, mostly because the reputed area of Sogdian influence is not very far from where Pamiris are found today and pushed slightly more east due to later conflicts etc.

I have always found the populations of Far North Pakistan to be fascinating, mainly due to their good nature and relaxed demeanor. Their dedication to education and liberal arts is pleasantly surprising and an example for Pakistanis to follow. Wish we had more of these folks in our country.

 

[ManUNITEDglory]

Ethnic “Pamiri” call themselves Tajiks，speaking in Iranian-derived dialect. They are not related to so called Kashmir region. The Ladakh area was part of Chinese Tibet and was annexed by the Sikhs and later British to Kashmir region in the 19th century.

Earliest Aryan settlement in China dates back to 4000-5000 years ago. There's no direct link between them and presnet day ethnic groups in Northwest China. The Chinese minorities are more with central and north Asian background.

It's incorrect to even call it China and anyone who read history will realize it was never China. It's only part of China due to conquest and nothing more.

@Sher Shah Awan @django @PaklovesTurkiye @Kaptaan @Juggernaut_is_here @Joe Shearer


Friends,

The origins of these people is Eurasia... there were mummies found in China with red hair and whatnot... please, visit that historical fact for further validation.

The truth of the matter is that Eurasians have been coming, settling and tradding with Ancient Pak, China and Persia for a long time. These 'Aryans' were also the stock from where the Persians 'evolved'.

Ancient routes are still there... along with burried cities in the Steppes' Sands...

World is far more fascinating than the PDF's knowledge base.

One thing which nobody talks about/elaborate is the Fact that there are Stonehendges in Pak's Northern Area... going back thousands of years...

What are they doing there? Where they came from? Who built them? Why?

Perhaps you, esteemed gentlemen, know some more... would be nice if you could share this knowledge with us novices.

Regards,

Mangus

Again it's not China and NEVER HAD BEEN CHINA.

Even the historical ethnic groups that lived next to those Indo-Europeans and later Turkic people were Tibeto-Burman tribes from Qinghai and Gansu. For ethnic Han Chinese to even have contact with those ancient Indo-Europeans they had to get through those Tibeto-Burmese people who were related with Tibetans.

In regards to the red haired mummies, those folks were most likely Tocharian who may well have founded the Kushan empire, folks with appearance you described are not uncommon to find in highlands of KPK/Northen Areas/Afghanistan/Tajikstan.Kudos Sir

But isn't the last second guy a ethnic Kalash ?

It's hard to believe these Pamiris and ethnic Kalash have nothing to do with eachother considering their geographic locations and strong physical resemblences

In my opinion, and I will confess I have no great knowledge in this matter, they are most likely the remnants of ancient Iranic populations of this area which is now divided between several countries, maybe of Sogdian or Tocharian stock. My personal compass leans more towards a Sogdian origin, mostly because the reputed area of Sogdian influence is not very far from where Pamiris are found today and pushed slightly more east due to later conflicts etc.

I have always found the populations of Far North Pakistan to be fascinating, mainly due to their good nature and relaxed demeanor. Their dedication to education and liberal arts is pleasantly surprising and an example for Pakistanis to follow. Wish we had more of these folks in our country.

They must be related

In my opinion, and I will confess I have no great knowledge in this matter, they are most likely the remnants of ancient Iranic populations of this area which is now divided between several countries, maybe of Sogdian or Tocharian stock. My personal compass leans more towards a Sogdian origin, mostly because the reputed area of Sogdian influence is not very far from where Pamiris are found today and pushed slightly more east due to later conflicts etc.

I have always found the populations of Far North Pakistan to be fascinating, mainly due to their good nature and relaxed demeanor. Their dedication to education and liberal arts is pleasantly surprising and an example for Pakistanis to follow. Wish we had more of these folks in our country.

Yes, Dardic people are also Iranic. It must mean they shared the same origin/ancestors but linguistically changed after they migrated to different regions. The Pamiri language is heavily influenced by Tajiks and by physically appearance Tajiks are black hair, dark eyes and ussually look more like Persians.