ERDOGAN's modern Turkey 2003-2023

[Nilgiri]

Brother even you liked Ataturk however own citizens cant appreciate him
Ismet Inonu his friend and second president of Turkey was also great man. He oppressed Kurdish separatism with blood. Some of deported to Western cities and assimilated into Turkish.
Although Türkiye's fundementalists accuse him for being an atheist , he prayed 5 times every day as well as early morning pray T! Today Turkish fundamentalists with Islamic look( women are with hidjab and bearded men) never pray 5 times every day. Turkish mosques are empty in the morning

Bro, not very many in human history can say they turned the fate and destiny of a nation 180 degrees around...saving it and making it solid to prosper again.

Just look at what you Turks were staring at, at the time. Ataturk was a lion...simply this lion is now safely laughed at by some hyenas long long after he was around....as they live comforts in the kingdom he and many strived, fought and bled for.

I will have to read about Inonu more...I have only come across him briefly, my knowledge of Turkey past Ataturk (in that era and cold war after it) is very limited my friend.

 

[mehmeTcc]

Just look at what you Turks were staring at, at the time. Ataturk was a lion...simply this lion is now safely laughed at by some hyenas long long after he was around....as they live comforts in the kingdom he and many strived, fought and bled for.

Non-institutionalized Westernization ends up with reactionary thought. I believe you would understand how it is as we face with same problems. Wrongly understood secularism, corruption, populism, income inequality etc.

Calling him a lion is undercutting it. I've been reading about him for quite some time but still, he finds a way to surprise me. The things he foresee, problems he overcome are simply marvelous. Sometimes I think I couldn't do what he did; and in spite of this, in his Address to Youth, he shouts that I can and should do if we ever face with peril again. But that doesn't mean he didn't have his flaws.

Simply put, he couldn't find a proper replacement for him. Maybe he needed more time, I don't know. Just like Lenin and Stalin, with his death the revolution has lost his momentum and faded away. He couldn't finish Scientific and Industrial reforms he started, and because of that for nearly 50 years we had been dirt poor farmers. I know you can't blame him for all of these. But after all he had done, you start to feel like he should've gone that extra mile as well. That being said though, he did so much for me and my family. His reforms made a teacher from my father. He was born in a rural Anatolian town and was doing shepherdy, just like his father and grandfather. Without Mustafa Kemal, he would probably stay a shepherd like his ancestors, and I would be a shepherd as well. His greatest gift to us is that, social mobilization. Now I am an engineer and I would like to think myself as someone at least as capable as his colleagues around the world; and if I am fortunate enough to be that able, it is because of that man. It is funny, because simply put, I owe everything to a man who lived 100 years ago. Those hyenas you are talking about, they are not aware of this and I guess they would never be; they don't know the fact that if not for this man, they would be shepherds as well.

But still, it doesn't matter really. As the history teaches us, Enlightenment can never be stopped. Tomorrow has not yet come.

 

[Nilgiri]

Non-institutionalized Westernization ends up with reactionary thought. I believe you would understand how it is as we face with same problems. Wrongly understood secularism, corruption, populism, income inequality etc.

Calling him a lion is undercutting it. I've been reading about him for quite some time but still, he finds a way to surprise me. The things he foresee, problems he overcome are simply marvelous. Sometimes I think I couldn't do what he did; and in spite of this, in his Address to Youth, he shouts that I can and should do if we ever face with peril again. But that doesn't mean he didn't have his flaws.

Simply put, he couldn't find a proper replacement for him. Maybe he needed more time, I don't know. Just like Lenin and Stalin, with his death the revolution has lost his momentum and faded away. He couldn't finish Scientific and Industrial reforms he started, and because of that for nearly 50 years we had been dirt poor farmers. I know you can't blame him for all of these. But after all he had done, you start to feel like he should've gone that extra mile as well. That being said though, he did so much for me and my family. His reforms made a teacher from my father. He was born in a rural Anatolian town and was doing shepherdy, just like his father and grandfather. Without Mustafa Kemal, he would probably stay a shepherd like his ancestors, and I would be a shepherd as well. His greatest gift to us is that, social mobilization. Now I am an engineer and I would like to think myself as someone at least as capable as his colleagues around the world; and if I am fortunate enough to be that able, it is because of that man. It is funny, because simply put, I owe everything to a man who lived 100 years ago. Those hyenas you are talking about, they are not aware of this and I guess they would never be; they don't know the fact that if not for this man, they would be shepherds as well.

But still, it doesn't matter really. As the history teaches us, Enlightenment can never be stopped. Tomorrow has not yet come.

Excellent way to put it my friend, very fitting and personal tribute.

 

[Nilgiri]

someones creating troll spam accounts. 1 post, first post is this one^^

@cabatli_53

 

[MMM-E]

Education Revolution 2002-2017


Education budget
2002 : $6.2 billion
2017 : $35 billion

Total number of Schools
2002 : 43.696
2017 : 65.897

Total number of Classrooms
2002 : 347.000
2017 : 679.000

The number of Students per Classroom
2002 : 36 ( primary education ) ..... 30 ( high school )
2017 : 24 ( primary education ) ..... 23 ( high school )

Total number of Laboratories
2002 : 18.853
2017 : 35.579

Teacher salary
2002 : 635 TL ( $396 )
2017 : 3.858 TL ( $1.015 )

Number of Students per Teacher
2002 : 28
2017 : 16

Total number of Teachers : 904.679

Total number of Universities .... ( There is no city without University )
2002 : 73
2017 : 181

Total number of University Students
2002 : 1.9 million
2017 : 7.3 million


Between 2003 and 2017, total of 2 billion 206 million 992 thousand 811 free textbooks were distributed to primary and high school students in all over Turkey

There are 12.809 Private primary and high Schools in Turkey
( The proportion of private schools reached 25% from 2% in the last 15 years )

ISTANBUL

ANKARA

 

[ANMDT]

10 billion euros spent on grand airport and metro entrance is 300 meters away from terminal due to a "mistake"-- the terminal building has not been planned with metro shaft.
https://onedio.com/haber/300-metre-...cin-plan-hatasi-yapildigi-ortaya-cikti-899312

 

[ANMDT]

its your lie ... stop lying , stop trolling and stop deflect the facts

in Turkish "" Göreve yeni başlayan bir öğretmene 2002 yılında 470,20 TL maaş verilirken, rakamın 1 Temmuz 2013 tarihi itibarıyla yüzde 303 artışla 1.894,53 TL'ye yükseltildiğini vurgulayan bakanlık, 2002 yılında öğretmenlerin 15 saatten ayda aldığı toplam ek ders ücretinin 165 lira iken, 1 Temmuz 2013 tarihiyle bu rakamın 543,39 TL'ye çıkarıldığını kaydetti.""

in English "" While a 470.20 TL salary was given to a new teacher who started working in 2002, the ministry emphasized that the number was increased by 303% to 1.894.53 TL as of 1 July 2013, while the total additional tuition fee that teachers received from 15 hours per month was 165 lira in 2002, 1 July. He noted that this number was increased to 543,39 TL in 2013""

https://www.haberturk.com/ekonomi/para/haber/893782-ogretmen-maaslari-ne-kadar-artti



UrkoTurk is trolling and off topic

you are showing a school from a small village from Eastern Anatolia as like all schools in Turkey similar to this one

and you are trying to deflect the facts and lying

I am saying again and about Teacher salary
2002 : 635 TL ( $396 )
2017 : 3.858 TL ( $1.015 )

Education budget
2002 : $6.2 billion
2017 : $35 billion

Total number of Schools
2002 : 43.696
2017 : 65.897

and There are 12.809 Private primary and high Schools in Turkey
( The proportion of private schools reached 25% from 2% in the last 15 years )


stop trolling and stop lying and stop anti propaganda to deflect the facts



Foxtrot Alpha

please clean my thread from TROLLs and off topic

Increase in number of private schools is not a good indicator, for your information.

 

[MMM-E]

Increase in number of private schools is not a good indicator, for your information.

its also good for education quality
Private schools are the shortest way to provide your child with the education you want

rich and smart students start taking education from private primary school to best universities in Turkey even graduate abroad

There was a relationship between the education level of parents and students for success.
The scores of the children of families with high socio economic status due to the education level of their parents are also high. There is a 130 point difference between the parents whose education level is graduate and those whose parents are primary school graduates

Of course, the quality of education is more important than the number

also Education budget
2002 : $6.2 billion
2017 : $35 billion

 

[ANMDT]

it's also good for education quality
Private schools are the shortest way to provide your child with the education you want

rich and smart students start taking education from private primary school to best universities in Turkey even graduate abroad

There was a relationship between the education level of parents and students for success.
The scores of the children of families with high socio economic status due to the education level of their parents are also high. There is a 130 point difference between the parents whose education level is graduate and those whose parents are primary school graduates

Of course, the quality of education is more important than the number

also Education budget
2002 : $6.2 billion
2017 : $35 billion

I am saying a simple thing: Increase in number of private schools is not a good indicator for the development. It indicates there is a "market" for education which is resulted from poor -low quality education in public schools, which diverts people to "private" schools instead of public schools.
Private schools shouldn't be widely available, and should be allowed for certain cases. Only %5 of the current private schools truly serve for " genius" kids, the rest is there just for making money.
Doğa koleji, one of the largest "chain" private schools has been in bankrupt and saved by ITU (public university).
This not McDonalds, you can not franchise private schools and launch them like chain restaurants.

Private schools are the shortest way to provide your child with the education you want

rich and smart students start taking education from private primary school to best universities in Turkey even graduate abroad

There was a relationship between the education level of parents and students for success.

The scores of the children of families with high socio economic status due to the education level of their parents are also high. There is a 130 point difference between the parents whose education level is graduate and those whose parents are primary school graduates

Are you actually aware what you are telling is actually in favor of Erdogan or their work within last 20 years?
You are pretty wrong in here, a good education should be accessible to poor people.
"Eğitimde fırsat eşitliği" if you are not aware with the term. A good-proper education should be accessible to everyone at no cost.
If children of high and low status families differs in the scores, this clearly indicates how bad the public education is.

 

[MMM-E]

"Eğitimde fırsat eşitliği" if you are not aware with the term. A good-proper education should be accessible to everyone at no cost.
If children of high and low status families differs in the scores, this clearly indicates how bad the public education is.

Money talks

how can Turkey give a good-proper education to 13-17 million students with only $6 billion education budget by 2002 or $35 billion by 2017 ?

The education budget of Germany composed total of € 206 billion or $227 billion in 2017


thanks to Erdogan that Education budget has risen to $35 billion from $6 billion between 2002 and 2017

the number of Teachers has risen to 904.679 from 373.303 between 2002 and 2017
the number of Schools has risen to 65.897 from 43.696 2002 and 2017
the number of Classrooms has risen to 679.000 from 347.000 between 2002 and 2017

we are far better than 2002 but not enough , we need more and more

 

[ANMDT]

how can Turkey give a good-proper education to 13-18 million students with only $6 billion education budget by 2002 or $35 billion by 2017 ?

There are many countries which can provide good education to all of their students which is even more than ours. Life is cheaper in here and salaries are low, you can not compare two countries through a single currency.If it makes sense a new teacher makes about 4000 Usd per month in germany.
For education of successful students : there are bunch of exams to rank students. It is responsibility of the state, if budget is limited, to detect and educate the successful kids. Involving private schools/courses ruins the methodology, and pushes poor but high potential kids low in rankings. Only rarity of private schools provides a comprehensive study which does not solely focus on pushing kids up in national exam rankings but "educates" them. The rest %95 solely is interested in money and systematically preparing kids for national exams and nothing else further.

And for last, the budget you get for Germany more likely covers high education as well.
125 (MEB)+ 35(YOK) = 160 billion liras with extras it goes up to 177, a new teacher earns 4000 Lira in Turkey ,about 4000 USD in Germany. So for education we can easily say, 1 USD = 1 Lira equity is valid.
Professor - Researcher salaries in Germany is above than Turkey (even in unit currency comparison)
For education your only input resource is human. Majority of the budget is spent on salaries, to make it easier for you 104 billion of 125 billion for 2020 is spent on salaries. The following part is directly quoted from MEB website.

"Eğitim alanında gerçekleştireceğimiz bütün bu faaliyetler için 91 milyar 467 milyon 345 bin lirası personel giderleri, 14 milyar 367 milyon 680 bin lirası Sosyal Güvenlik Kurumu'na devlet primi giderleri, 9 milyar 956 milyon 271 bin lirası mal ve hizmet alım giderlerinde kullanılmak üzere cari harcamalar, 3 milyar 739 milyon 169 bin lirası devlet parasız yatılı öğrencileri, burslar ile diğer cari transferler, 5 milyar 836 milyon 918 bin lirası sermaye giderleri, 29 milyon 479 bin lirası sermaye transferleri olmak üzere toplam 125 milyar 396 milyon 862 bin lira Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı bütçesine tahsis edilmiştir." değerlendirmesinde bulundu.

Selçuk, şöyle devam etti: "Bununla birlikte 36 milyar 145 milyon 740 bin lirası YÖK, Yükseköğretim Kalite Kurulu ve üniversitelerin bütçesi, 717 milyon 792 bin lirası ÖSYM bütçesi, 15 milyar 345 milyon 110 bin lirası Yükseköğretim Kredi ve Yurtlar Kurumu bütçesi olmak üzere toplam eğitim bütçemiz 177 milyar 605 milyon 504 bin lira lira olarak öngörülmüştür. Ayrıca ilköğretim öğrencilerinin ücretsiz ders kitabı giderleri, taşımalı ilköğretim/ortaöğretim uygulaması kapsamında öğle yemeği giderleri ve özel eğitime ihtiyaç duyan öğrencilerin taşıma giderleri için toplam 2 milyar 623 milyon lira kaynak da Sosyal Yardımlaşma ve Dayanışmayı Teşvik Fonundan karşılanacaktır."

Money talks

This describes - summarizes everything regarding to your mindset.

 

[MMM-E]

This describes - summarizes everything regarding to your mindset.

ask to uneducated and poor Kurdish or Arabian Families who has minimum 8 children and most of them never want to take even education

There are many countries which can provide good education to all of their students which is even more than ours.

Turkey has enough good education , problem is people who are lazy and dont want to take education

if you want to take good education then you can take good education in Turkey

the best example is AZIZ SANCAR who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Aziz Sancar completed her primary and secondary education in Mardin and he studied medicine at Istanbul University


now Turkey has almost everything

there are bunch of exams to sort students. It is responsibility of the state, if budget is limited, to detect and educate the successful kids

what about ANADOLU and FEN Lisesi ?



the number of graduate students with scholarship abroad

1923-2001 ( 78 years ) = 9.496 students
2002-2018 ( 16 years ) = 9.231 students

 

[ANMDT]

Money talks

how can Turkey give a good-proper education to 13-17 million students with only $6 billion education budget by 2002 or $35 billion by 2017 ?

The education budget of Germany composed total of € 206 billion or $227 billion in 2017


thanks to Erdogan that Education budget has risen to $35 billion from $6 billion between 2002 and 2017

the number of Teachers has risen to 904.679 from 373.303 between 2002 and 2017
the number of Schools has risen to 65.897 from 43.696 2002 and 2017
the number of Classrooms has risen to 679.000 from 347.000 between 2002 and 2017

we are far better than 2002 but not enough , we need more and more

Dont de-rail the subject we are speaking about quality of public education and adverse effects of private schools.
GDPP
2002 2017
Turkey 3600 10000
Russia 2300 10000
Iran 1900 5000
Germany 25000 44000

OECD trend:

Apparently the rest of the world is growing as well.

 

[MMM-E]

Dont de-rail the subject we are speaking about quality of public education and adverse effects of private schools.
GDPP
2002 2017
Turkey 3600 10000
Russia 2300 10000
Iran 1900 5000
Germany 25000 44000

OECD trend:
View attachment 634531

Apparently the rest of the world is growing as well.

you are another person to deflect the facts

Education budget
1923-2002 ( 79 years ) $6 billion
2002-2017 ( 15 years ) $35 billion

btw thanks to PUTIN who made Russia great again ... the west are calling PUTIN and ERDOGAN as dictator



btw Turkey and Austria had almost saame GDP in 2002
but 2019 Turkey had $776 billion of GDP .... Austria hhad $455 billion

also 2002 9x Turkey = 1 Germany and 2019 5x Turkey = 1 Germany

even since 2013 Turkey and Turkish economy under attack and Turkish currency dropped by 320%

 

[ANMDT]

ask to uneducated and poor Kurdish or Arabian Families who has minimum 8 childs and most of them never want to take even education




Turkey has enough good education , problem is people who are lazy and dont want to take education

if you want to take good education then you can take good education in Turkey

the best example is AZIZ SANCAR who was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry
Aziz Sancar completed her primary and secondary education in Mardin and he studied medicine at Istanbul University


now Turkey has almost everything



what about ANADOLU and FEN Lisesi ?



the number of graduate students with scholarship abroad

1923-2001 ( 78 years ) = 9.496 students
2002-2018 ( 16 years ) = 9.231 students

Those datas are number of the students benefited from state scholarship which excludes individual applications, scholarships by foreign states, chewening, fullbright. Quality or Quantity? If you dare you can check how many good students we have lost to developed countries.
Comparing 1923-2002 and 2002-2020 makes no sense, for god's sake stop doing it. This thread hasn't meant to compare but to post events after 2002.
Teachers of Anadolu and Fen lisesi has been forced to " circulate" since government has believed it wasn't fair if high quality teachers were concentrated at certain high schools. They have been reassigned in regular highschools. Also private schools offer better salaries and conditions, most of them has quit and moved to private schools.
Anadolu lisessi except of a few famous ones, are similar to regular highschools. Most of regular highschools are renamed as " Anadolu" , number or Anadolu lisesis has tremendously increased.
Re-read highlighted section, government has believed it was unfair, but private schools are entirely fair according to you and them. This is not consistent.

you are another person to deflect the facts

Education budget
1923-2002 ( 79 years ) $6 billion
2002-2017 ( 15 years ) $35 billion

btw thanks to PUTIN who made Russia great again ... the west are calling PUTIN and ERDOGAN as dictator



btw 2002 9x Turkey = 1 Germany and 2019 5x Turkey = 1 Germany

even since 2013 Turkey and Turkish economy under attack and Turkish currency dropped by 320%

When facts does not fit your belief, those are deflected?
Just check OECD trendline, the data has been taken from OECD website, we are on the same trendline as the most of the countries.
Turkey's /Iran's GDP ratio : 2002 = 1.9 ,2019 = 2
Do you dare to compare us with Germany in terms of economics?
The link is here:
https://data.oecd.org/gdp/gross-domestic-product-gdp.htm
The chart is here: highlighted OECD-europe and overall avarage for convenience.
The world is developing, as we do.