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Erdogan would apologize to Putin within a week, my estimate

Turkey won't apologise to Russia over downing of jet: Davutoglu


BRUSSELS: Turkey's Prime Minister says his country won't apologise to Russia for shooting down a warplane operating over Syria that crossed through Turkish airspace.
Ahmet Davutoglu also said Turkey also hopes that Moscow will reconsider economic sanctions it announced against Turkish interests in the wake of last week's incident.

Davutoglu told reporters Monday that "no Turkish prime minister or president will apologise ... because of doing our duty."
He spoke after a meeting with the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) chief in Brussels and said Turkey remains open to talks with Russia about ways to avoid such incidents in the future.
Russian President Vladimir Putin's foreign affairs adviser has said the Russian leader hadn't taken calls from Turkey's president because there has been no Turkish apology.
Russia insists the plane did not intrude on Turkish airspace.
Turkey confirmed that it shot down a Russian warplane, claiming it had violated Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings. Russia denied that the plane crossed the Syrian border into Turkish skies. Russia said the Su-24 was downed by artillery fire, but Turkey claimed that its F-16s fired on the Russian plane after it ignored several warnings.
The incident is one of the most serious clashes between a Nato member country and Russia to have taken place for half a century.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan voiced regret over Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane, saying his country was “truly saddened” by the incident and wished it hadn’t occurred.
Meanwhile, Erdogan had also said his country did not wish to escalate tensions with Russia over the downing of the plane.
Erdogan however defended his country's move to shoot down the plane saying “no one should expect Turkey to stay silent to border violations or the violation of its rights.”
Meanwhile Russia has already warned its nationals against visiting Turkey and stepped up controls of Turkish agricultural imports in the wake of the incident.
And Russia’s leaders have had harsh words for Ankara, with President Vladimir Putin deeming the plane’s downing a “stab in the back committed by accomplices of terrorists”.

Turkey won't apologise to Russia over downing of jet: Davutoglu - World - DAWN.COM
there are a lot of interesting comments in the newspapers from pakistani bros:cuckoo:
 
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The Aviationist » Watch this interesting video of the Russian planes (with Red Star painted over) at work in Syria

Do u really think russia imposing sanctions against a NATO county will work?

as per ur logic PLAAF can cross over kashmir to visit pakistan? as they will be in ur airspace just for few min?
Not any NATO country. But with Turkey, Russian sanctions will work. They are second or third largest trading partner to Turkey.

There are other ways to force and aircraft to land. The flight path shows that the Russian airplane couldn't have strayed into Turkish airspace for more than a few minutes.

Turkey-Pakistan are not in any way like India-Pakistan or India-China.

But thanks for the Aviationist article.
 
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Not any NATO country. But with Turkey, Russian sanctions will work. They are second or third largest trading partner to Turkey.

There are other ways to force and aircraft to land. The flight path shows that the Russian airplane couldn't have strayed into Turkish airspace for more than a few minutes.

Turkey-Pakistan are not in any way like India-Pakistan or India-China.

But thanks for the Aviationist article.

u fail when u said Turkey not a NATO country


"Turkey-Pakistan are not in any way like India-Pakistan.
What do u mean by this?
 
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Erdogan and apology :D lol you and your wet dreams :P
 
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The turk will beg for mercy but mercy will not come
Roses are red. Violets are blue. I have 5 fingers and the middle one's for you.

But with Turkey, Russian sanctions will work. They are second or third largest trading partner to Turkey.
Another expert. :lol:

Yeah out of 19 Billion trade. 14 Billion is energy import by Turkey. If Russia tries economic sanction on Turkey, we will just shift our market. For gas we can buy more from Azerbaijan and KRG, also LNG from Qatar and Saudi Arabia...In economic wise Russia can't really hurt us.
 
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Roses are red. Violets are blue. I have 5 fingers and the middle one's for you.


Another expert. :lol:

Yeah out of 19 Billion trade. 14 Billion is energy import by Turkey. If Russia tries economic sanction on Turkey, we will just shift our market. For gas we can buy more from Azerbaijan and KRG, also LNG from Qatar and Saudi Arabia...In economic wise Russia can't really hurt us.

In the very first day of the incident, Russian energy officials made it clear that the gas exports to Turkey will proceed as agreed upon despite the crisis. These so called "sanctions" are just for saving some face by the famous Russian showmen, Putin.

We are doomed, Russians aren't gonna buy our tomatoes... lol

Imposing economic sanctions to a G20 country while Russia itself is sanctioned to death... :lol: Just Putin things...
 
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We are doomed, Russians aren't gonna buy our tomatoes... lol
Our producers summarizing it very well. Ama Erhan’ın yanı başındaki pazarcı ise Rusya’nın yaptırımlarının Türkiye’ye pek de zarar vermeyeceği konusunda emin. “Eğer Rusya’ya meyve satamazsak, Avrupa’ya satarız veya İran’a. Satacak birini buluruz. Ama ne yiyeceğini Rusya düşünsün” diyor.

English translation "If we can't sell fruits to Russia, we will sell it to Europe, Iran, we will find someone to sell. Russia should think about what to eat. :)"

Also this will cause price increase in Russia...

They blocked Turkish trucks in Russian border, so they are now going through Azerbaijan and Caspian sea...Russia lost the tens of thousands of customs fee...just for letting the trucks pass through it's country...
 
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Not any NATO country. But with Turkey, Russian sanctions will work. They are second or third largest trading partner to Turkey.

There are other ways to force and aircraft to land. The flight path shows that the Russian airplane couldn't have strayed into Turkish airspace for more than a few minutes.

Turkey-Pakistan are not in any way like India-Pakistan or India-China.

But thanks for the Aviationist article.

the thing people don't seem to understand is , just because Russia is one of the biggest partners doesn't really mean anything.
The actual meaning behind trade stands at export to import ratio , the trade volume between Turkey and Russia stood at $35 bil, with export to import ratio heavily benefiting the Russian side.

Russia has lost its market in the West due to sanctions and now is facing a recession , how wise do you think it is for a country in recession to put up sanctions against one of their biggest trade partners.

What Turkey exports to Russia has many alternative markets , from Central Asia to Europe
What Turkey imports from Russia also has alternative markets , but it will take time.

Turkey also has major deals with Russia such as Nuclear Plants worth $20 bil. , now another country will benefit.

even if let's say Turkey never manages to find an alternative market , the exports to Russia make up 0.4% of the GDP.

not to mention have you ever heard of a country in recession imposing sanctions against another country?
from economic stand point even an 8 year old would understand it hurts you more than others.
 
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Oh man, this is the best sentence for today. :omghaha:
Lol, stupid people like him, deserves stupid verses like that. :)

not to mention have you ever heard of a country in recession imposing sanctions against another country?
from economic stand point even an 8 year old would understand it hurts you more than others.

Last night i was watching Bloomberg TR.

There was this guy "Head of Plastic producers association" or something like that.

He was giving an example. "We sold 100 Turkish made machinery to a plant in Russia. Because of the nature of the process these machines need spare parts and maintenance. Our trucks stopped in Russian border and authorities are not letting the trucks into Russia. Okay, we couldn't sold spare parts and it hurt us to a point however that Russian plant ceased it's operations because machines are not working right now."

Perfect example of how Russian sanctions hit them back in folds.
 
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Last night i was watching Bloomberg TR.

There was this guy "Head of Plastic producers association" or something like that.

He was giving an example. "We sold 100 Turkish made machinery to a plant in Russia. Because of the nature of the process these machines need spare parts and maintenance. Our trucks stopped in Russian border and authorities are not letting the trucks into Russia. Okay, we couldn't sold spare parts and it hurt us to a point however that Russian plant ceased it's operations because machines are not working right now."

Perfect example of how Russian sanctions hit them back in folds.

yep , these sanctions are just pure propaganda
 
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Why would Turkey apologise? I'm talking strictly responsibility wise. The Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace, was warned but did not respond, had no markings too apparently, for all Turkey knew it could have been a Syrian plane, or a Russian one up to no good; Russia is making a habit of encroaching upon other countries' sovereignty.... Also anyone remember what Pakistan did when Soviet aircraft entered our airspace?

All that said, I guess the Turks could have handled the situation a bit better, but then we weren't there to know what the situation was.
 
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Analysis: Downing of Russian jet hardly a surprise


The shooting down of a Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-24 jet by Turkish F-16 fighters after it reportedly violated Turkish airspace is a dangerous escalation in the context of Russia's continuing confrontation with NATO in Eastern Europe and Syria.

However, it should not come as much of a surprise.

Turkish authorities claim that the Su-24 fighter bomber ignored repeated warnings over the course of five minutes on Tuesday and was then shot down after violating Turkish airspace near Yayladagi, Hatay.

Russia claims that the Su-24 did not cross the Syria-Turkey border and was, therefore, illegally attacked.

This version of events, however, does not fit with an established pattern of repeated violations of NATO airspace by Russian military aircraft over the past 18 months.

In October 2014, and in June and July this year, for example, Russian military aircraft repeatedly violated Estonian airspace and since 2013 have also violated the airspace of NATO-partner nations Sweden and Finland.

On October 3 and 4, Russian Su-30SM and Su-24 jets violated Turkish airspace repeatedly in the same Hatay province where Turkey claims the Su-24 entered its airspace on Tuesday, before it was shot down.

During these October airspace violations, which Russia admitted, a Russian Su-30SM fighter actively locked on its radar to the Turkish F-16s sent to intercept it for over five minutes - an aggressive action outside of the accepted military procedures for such encounters.

Despite the provocative action, the Russian Ministry of Defence claimed that the violations of Turkish airspace on consecutive days were an accidental result of pilots getting lost.

This is not a credible explanation since modern combat aircraft such as the Su-30SM have sophisticated navigation systems and the Russian Air Force crews sent to Syria will be highly trained and selected, precisely because the operational environment is so congested and sensitive.

In terms of Tuesday's incident, the multiple pieces of footage of the Su-24 falling in flames show a clear blue sky which would further aid navigation by visual means.

RELATED: NATO warns Russia after jet strays into Turkey

Russia has, in other words, been probing Turkey's airspace and patience since October, and NATO airspace for much longer than that.

However, it should not come as a surprise that further violations would result in a plane being shot down.

Turkey has consistently responded to Syrian incursions by using its modern, US-supplied F-16 fighters to shoot down intruders.

In 2013, a Syrian Air Force Mi-17 helicopter and a Mig-23 fighter bomber were destroyed in two separate incidents after they entered Turkish airspace.

The Turkish Air Force shot down another Syrian Mig-23 in March 2014 after it ignored repeated warnings.

Furthermore, on October 16, a small drone of unknown nationality but suspected Russian origin was shot down in a similar fashion.

Syria has also previously shot down Turkish military aircraft which have entered Syrian airspace.

In other words, the airspace on the Syrian-Turkish border is a known high-tension front line where lethal force is regularly employed if warnings are ignored.

Within this context, the aggressive Russian Air Force actions in probing Turkish airspace and locking on to its fighters last month were treated with significant restraint by Turkey.

However, Turkey and NATO made it clear that such violations must stop and that any repetition would be "highly dangerous".

If, as Turkey claims, the Su-24 shot down on Tuesday did violate Turkish airspace and ignore repeated warnings, it should not come as a surprise to either side that it was shot down, however destabilising the results may be.

Much will now depend on how convincingly Turkey and NATO can demonstrate that the Russian jet did indeed enter Turkish airspace, and how the tightly Kremlin-controlled Russian media chooses to spin the story for the Russian public.

Putin most likely knows that a routine provocation has, for once, been met with force and he has only his own policies to blame.

However, he cannot be seen to admit any such thing in public.

RELATED: Would a no-fly zone in Syria serve any purpose?

Therefore, he must continue to claim publicly that Turkey is villainously stabbing Russia in the back in the midst of her heroic battle against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group.

The fact that there are no ISIL forces near that portion of the Syrian-Turkish border, and that the Su-24 was most likely engaged in continued Russian air strikes against Turkmen rebels fighting President Bashar al-Assad as part of the Free Syrian Army, will doubtless stay off the Russian script.

In any case, it is vital in the coming days that leaders on both sides try to avoid more inflammatory rhetoric and avoid further escalation.

With so many military forces pursuing their own, often conflicting, agendas in Syria and the wider region; the world cannot afford to risk brinkmanship over this incident.


Justin Bronk is a Research Analyst in Military Sciences at the Royal United Services Institute.

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

Analysis: Downing of Russian jet hardly a surprise - Al Jazeera English
 
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