Erdogan is more popular in Pakistan than Turkey

[beijingwalker]

When being asked on his opinon on Xinjiang, Prime Minister Imran Khan didn't openly support China as the Saudi crown prince did, we fully understand the pressure he has to take home and abroad in commenting this issue and didn't raise any question on it. Pakistan must also understand that China bears no less pressure when commenting some highly sensitive issues relating to Pakistan, the whole world is watching China's every move and say, we are almost at a full psychnological war with the west now.

 

[_Sherdils_]

Vajpayee held talks with Hurriyat leaders and Pakistani officials, and then Kargil happened. Then after that Indian Parliament, and then Mumbai. Peace is a two way street. Every time India attempts to deescalate, a terror attack or Pakistani misadventure happens. I am in no way saying that I agree with how Modi handled the Kashmir situation, but as I said, it is what it is. The ship for peace in the region has set sail and is not coming back for a while. In the meantime, India needs to stop fighting the millitants with one arm tied behind its back and get rid of the terrorists. Only then will there be any chance of peace talks. I am not delusional, I am a realist. If anything, you are the delusional ones for thinking India will ever let go of Kashmir. And India is not going anywhere. If anything, the events of the past month have strengthened international support for India's war on terrorism in Kashmir. And in no way does this violence make me happy. But as I said, it is what it is. Pakistan keeps looking at this issue through the lenses of religion, while forgetting we want to protect our interests like any other country, and will do so at any cost.

And btw, I am not die-hard Modi supporter, but do you really think anything will be different if the Italian wins the election?

Keep living in the past mate. Typical Indian attitude. From the public to politicians, they all say the same thing. Soo much has changed since the 90s but you are stuck at Kargil.

Anti India sentiment has reduced in Pakistan.

Armed forces meddling in politics has reduced in comparison to 90s.

Our media isn't anti India, doesnt even talk about India unless you go full on warmongering crazy.

It's not in Pakistan's interest to fuel militancy in Kashmir anymore we rather implement Musharraf/Manmohan formula.

We opened up Kartarpur, and your media wants to give it a Khalistani spin soo much soo that the next meeting got postponed. Anything we do is taken negatively and the worldview of Indians is totally dubious and incorrect about Pakistan. Also every Indian thinks whatever india does, the exact same thing happens in Pakistan which is untrue.

For example, Indian Media is stupid and anti-Pakistan all the time. Pakistani media must be the same - Untrue.

Indian politicians have to use anti-Pakistan rhetoric to win elections, Pakistani politicians must be the same - Untrue.

We have a new government that has broken the two party system and country is fast moving towards independent working institutions and India wants to be stuck in the past of the last century. Your politicians refuse to talk to Pakistan based on that rhetoric.

Your media fuels anti-Pakistan sentiments. Public opinion changes and your politicians have to reciprocate with anti-Pakistan rhetoric. Destroys any chance of peace.

It's like what Imran Khan said, the past is to learn from, not to live in.

You are stuck in the past and the "world" you talk about views you as a war mongerer now. Modi's action last month has made Kashmir a nuclear flashpoint which has further garnered world's attention towards the issue.

India plays itself as the victim, it is infact the bully. You can't be soo big in size and be the victim.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Keep living in the past mate. Typical Indian attitude. From the public to politicians, they all say the same thing. Soo much has changed since the 90s but you are stuck at Kargil.

Anti India sentiment has reduced in Pakistan.

Armed forces meddling in politics has reduced in comparison to 90s.

Our media isn't anti India, doesnt even talk about India unless you go full on warmongering crazy.

It's not in Pakistan's interest to fuel militancy in Kashmir anymore we rather implement Musharraf/Manmohan formula.

We opened up Kartarpur, and your media wants to give it a Khalistani spin soo much soo that the next meeting got postponed. Anything we do is taken negatively and the worldview of Indians is totally dubious and incorrect about Pakistan. Also every Indian thinks whatever india does, the exact same thing happens in Pakistan which is untrue.

For example, Indian Media is stupid and anti-Pakistan all the time. Pakistani media must be the same - Untrue.

Indian politicians have to use anti-Pakistan rhetoric to win elections, Pakistani politicians must be the same - Untrue.

We have a new government that has broken the two party system and country is fast moving towards independent working institutions and India wants to be stuck in the past of the last century. Your politicians refuse to talk to Pakistan based on that rhetoric.

Your media fuels anti-Pakistan sentiments. Public opinion changes and your politicians have to reciprocate with anti-Pakistan rhetoric. Destroys any chance of peace.

It's like what Imran Khan said, the past is to learn from, not to live in.

You are stuck in the past and the "world" you talk about views you as a war mongerer now. Modi's action last month has made Kashmir a nuclear flashpoint which has further garnered world's attention towards the issue.

India plays itself as the victim, it is infact the bully. You can't be soo big in size and be the victim.

What reality are you living in? The events of the past month have strengthened global support for India's positions on Kashmir. Immediately after Pulwama, the UNSC including China directly condemned JeM. And after the Balakot strike, not a single major country condemned India for violating Pakistan's airspace. 14 out of 15 member of the UNSC voted to blacklist Masood Azhar, including Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country. And the US, UK, France, and Russia are filing another motion to blacklist Masood Azhar, which means China will be required to justify its actions in front of the UNSC.

Can you name me one major country that has condemned India for "human rights violations" in Kashmir? Both Russia and the US among other countries have expressed support for India's war against terrorism in Kashmir. Meanwhile most countries are asking you to do more against terrorism instead of acknowledging your concerns. How as India been exposed as a "war monger?" In actuality, this past month has seen major diplomatic victories for India on the issue.

And no, things haven't changed. Every time India attempts to de-escalate, a terror attack happens. At the beginning of his term Modi reached out to Nawaz Shariff and even visited Pakistan. Then Uri happened. When Imran Khan got elected, it looked like the situation would calm down. Then Pulwama occurred. As long as you support cross border terrorism, there will be no peace. If you are actually interested in making peace with India, YOU will have to take the initiative by recognizing the LOC as an international border and officially condemn Kashmiri terror groups and take action against those operating on your soil. If Pakistan does that, it will be more politically feasible for the Indian government to hold talks with Kashmiri leadership and work towards a long-term solution.

 

[_Sherdils_]

What reality are you living in? The events of the past month have strengthened global support for India's positions on Kashmir. Immediately after Pulwama, the UNSC including China directly condemned JeM. And after the Balakot strike, not a single major country condemned India for violating Pakistan's airspace. 14 out of 15 member of the UNSC voted to blacklist Masood Azhar, including Indonesia, the world's largest Muslim country. And the US, UK, France, and Russia are filing another motion to blacklist Masood Azhar, which means China will be required to justify its actions in front of the UNSC.

Can you name me one major country that has condemned India for "human rights violations" in Kashmir? Both Russia and the US among other countries have expressed support for India's war against terrorism in Kashmir. Meanwhile most countries are asking you to do more against terrorism instead of acknowledging your concerns. How as India been exposed as a "war monger?" In actuality, this past month has seen major diplomatic victories for India on the issue.

And no, things haven't changed. Every time India attempts to de-escalate, a terror attack happens. At the beginning of his term Modi reached out to Nawaz Shariff and even visited Pakistan. Then Uri happened. When Imran Khan got elected, it looked like the situation would calm down. Then Pulwama occurred. As long as you support cross border terrorism, there will be no peace. If you are actually interested in making peace with India, YOU will have to take the initiative by recognizing the LOC as an international border and officially condemn Kashmiri terror groups and take action against those operating on your soil. If Pakistan does that, it will be more politically feasible for the Indian government to hold talks with Kashmiri leadership and work towards a long-term solution.

This will never stop. Like I said, your the bully not a victim. These are false flag attacks the amount of proof always point to them bring orchestrated at home.

Regarding the countries, you have a big microphone in your hand so you keep bickering against us everywhere.

You are a big customer and so UN support against JEM is a result of that, countries aligning with their customer for a resolution. Doesn't mean the world has agreed with your stance in Kashmir. They still hold this as disputed territory and no one agrees with your use of force.

Your human rights violation are being reported in and your handling of the situation is being criticized OPENLY!

Read international media they are ripping into you, newyork times, washington post etc. These are opinion makers and they rarely used to write against India now they are.

Don't quote Modi's abrupt visit to Nawaz's house, it was not a state visit meant nothing if anything Modi and Indian govt was very close to turning Pakistan into Bangladesh and Nawaz was their man. We fought hard to remove him as he was nothing but a traitor.

Also, you have such a beef with Pakistan, look at how we have left you alone everywhere in the world to do business have relations with whichever country you want do what you want. On the other hand you have tried to meddle in EVERYTHING we do, from cricket to business. You openly claim you will break us and isolate us and NO this is not a reaction this is what you want, you can't stand a strong progressive Pakistan next to you. Your the bully kid and than when something happens to you you cry and whine and complain and bi**h about it like there is no tomorrow to gain world's sympathy.

Do what you want, if you are not going to change your ways, so be it. You have tried and failed, you will never be able to break Pakistan, you already tried with TTP and other proxies and failed. You will never be able to isolate Pakistan. Next time if you over dramatise your public and attack us again we will respond with much more than we did this time and put you in your place again like we did on the 27th of February.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Lol the Washington Post and New York Times is a bunch of liberal garbage that mostly exists to bash Trump. No one in the US takes them seriously. On the other hand, media outlets such as the Wall Street Journal and Fox News are supportive of our narrative. And yes Kashmir is a disputed territory, but that does not change the fact that not a single major country has condemned us for our so-called human rights violations. If anything, India now has more international support. The Kashmir dispute only became international in the first place after Pulwama, and it is viewed in the context of terrorism, not human rights. Not to mention, you are being criticized openly for your perceived support of terrorism. So I think it is clear most of the world buys our narrative.

As long as you make the K word your number one priority, there will never be peace between India and Pakistan. In all three wars over Kashmir, it was you who attacked us every time resulting in nothing but defeat and humiliation for you. It looks like you have not learned that India will NEVER get give up Kashmir, and the only way peace will be achieved in the region is if Pakistan stops supporting terrorism. Then India will hold talks with the Hurriyat. If Pakistan keeps its failed foreign policy, it will not achieve anything but heavy losses and diplomatic situation, and a more unstable Kashmir. It looks like you do not understand that simple reality, so I do not see any point in continuing this discussion. In the meantime India will continue to kill off Kashmiri terrorists with newly obtained global support.

Best regards.

 

[HammerHead081]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/b72gml/unfortunately_pakis_are_pretty_gullible_with/

This is turks opinion on us.

> They certainly have a fetish for islamist leaders, and probably think Erdogan will resurrect the Ottoman Empire. No wonder that their country is a shithole.

> Most Pakistanis' "I love Turkey" actually means "I love Erdogan/Islamism".

 

[The Eagle]

I never compare but when one claimed all pakistanis friend abandon them except turkey after 27th LOC engagement. I feel there is need to remind these pakistanis that showmanship means nothing while real concrete action under taken behind scene is more important support than lip service by some.

No one is abandoning anyone. A selective reading wouldn't help you. After all, members can express their opinion on the subject in hand. We do have active thread w.r.t. Pakistan-China friendship where members share their thoughts about relations between both the nations. So it has to run separately.

Regards,

 

[graphican]

Pakistan is looking to do what Erdogan did in Turkey - a.k.a Presidential system of governance.

 

[El Sidd]

nice to See Prime Minister Khan becoming major league player.

so handsome.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

https://old.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/b72gml/unfortunately_pakis_are_pretty_gullible_with/

This is turks opinion on us.

> They certainly have a fetish for islamist leaders, and probably think Erdogan will resurrect the Ottoman Empire. No wonder that their country is a shithole.

> Most Pakistanis' "I love Turkey" actually means "I love Erdogan/Islamism".

So one anti-Erdogan Turk insulting Pakistanis shows all Turks' opinions? LOL

Too much drama here. To sum it up; Pakistanis may express confidence in Erdoğan but they're praising Turkey actually. Many Turks like Musharraf even though he isn't very popular in Pakistan. Why? Because he was the face of a friendly nation. This is a well-known phenomenon in the political studies.

It is much deeper than that. We don't have much affinity with secular Turks, but we love proud Islamic Turks very much. Many of us are nostalgic for the Ottoman empire as it reminds us of our own great Mughal (Gurkhani) sultanat.

Erdogan has done many things correct as far as Pakistanis are concerned. He supported the Sunnis of Syria and put pressure on Bashar al Assad. Took in refugees. He supported Gaza when the whole world abandoned it, even sending a flotilla. He supported Pakistan on Kashmir at every level, and always took Pakistan's side. He pressurized Afghan government to ditch hate of Pakistan and come to friendly relations with Pakistan.

Erdogan also visited Pakistan a few times, and said "Pakistan is like my second home." Even in Turkey, he quoted Allama Iqbal's poetry and always mentions Pakistan in a positive light. When we faced any terrorist attack or natural disaster, Turkey always offered its support and actual help.

At FATF, UN, OIC, and at every forum, Turkey championed the rights of Pakistan, Kashmir, and protected us.

so we as @Indus Pakistan said we might as well have Khadim Ahmed Riviz leading a real "Islamic Republic" right eh

He doesn't speak for the religious majority of Pakistan. Imran Khan does.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Okay, I have reserved my thoughts out of respect to rest of the Turkish members here, many of whom I hold in high regard. And my respect for Turkey needs no further elabouration. But as you insist, I feel and I think I had a tangle with you in the past, so this time I will let my thoughts out and demolish your argumant.

Uighurs fine. Pakistan is evil. But I want to introduce to you Chechnyia. These are Turkic Muslim people only few hundred miles from your border. In late 1990s the Russians killed over half a million Chechens. The Russians raped, killed and genocided the brave defenders of Grozny. By the time Russians had gone house to house, streets by street there was no Grozby left but a terrible picture of hell. Chechnynia was genocide played out while the world looked on, ever so ignoring what was happening.

I am sure you know about all this. This was done under orders of Putin who used Chechnia to make a name for himself and establish a image of a strongman in Russia. Now, sunshine before you judge Pakistan with regards to Uighurs I want to know exactly what did Turkey do for these poor Chechens? Sat by and saw the genocide unfold. Today Turkey is ordering S-400s from the butcherer of Grozny, Putin. Millions of Russians tourists land in Turkey fueling the Turkish economy.

And you want Pakistan to chop it's own balls in some crazy act of dumbness or mislaid sense of loyalty. If your a friend you would be advising Pakistani's that guys you face -

India a enemy that has 7 times our population. That is like you guys facing four Russias. And while facing India also provoke the Chinese? A Chinese reaction would bring Pakistan on it's knees. I would never want Turkey to do some dumb thing that risks the entire country. I want Turkey to be a ally of Pakistan and also to prosper. So before you expect and test Pakistan by your ridicalous standards please apply the same test on Turkey, Chechnyia and Putin of Russia.

And let me know the results.

Excellent post here. You really hit all the high points.

After this, no Turkish brother or sister should be in any doubt about Pakistan's geopolitical reality.

Turkey itself looks to gain much from China as well, because relying on only Russia is dangerous for Turkey.

 

[Max]

My point that Chechnya and Xinjiang once had problems with Terrorism, but are now safe do to brutal military response of Russia and China.

So now you lowly gangadeshi subhumans have fantasy to brutalize Kashmirs to subdue them? isnt it already most militarized zone on earth? let me tell you that they are not orphans whom you can kill at will. Pakistan will be clearly justified to help, you have shown us doors to your airspace after long time, we can also provide them anti tank missiles and home made stringers.

As for Russia, they succeeded against Chechen's bcoz of divide. not how much bombed they dropped. Russia have pro Govt Sunni militia's outnumbering those of Salafist. they did most of the job and now ruling Chechnya. if Russia try to push them and shove something up their throats, they will again be fighting Russia.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

So now you lowly gangadeshi subhumans have fantasy to brutalize Kashmirs to subdue them? isnt it already most militarized zone on earth? let me tell you that they are not orphans whom you can kill at will. Pakistan will be clearly justified to help, you have shown us doors to your airspace after long time, we can also provide them anti tank missiles and home made stringers.

As for Russia, they succeeded against Chechen's bcoz of divide. not how much bombed they dropped. Russia have pro Govt Sunni militia's outnumbering those of Salafist. they did most of the job and now ruling Chechnya. if Russia try to push them and shove something up their throats, they will again be fighting Russia.

If you think you can stop us, go ahead and try. Since Pulwama, we have already killed at least 18 terrorists, and that number keeps on increasing. And the best thing is there is nothing you can do about it, and the entire world has rejected your narrative of human rights violations in Kashmir and has instead expressed support for India's war on terrorism in Kashmir.

 

[Max]

If you think you can stop us, go ahead and try. Since Pulwama, we have already killed at least 18 terrorists, and that number keeps on increasing. And the best thing is there is nothing you can do about it, and the entire world has rejected your narrative of human rights violations in Kashmir and has instead expressed support for India's war on terrorism in Kashmir.

Yeah that tik tok is going on for long, How many Kashmiri killed yours? they killed five next day after Pulwama if i remember correctly.. lol what is the new score?

Your hands are tied, US is on your side, but for how long, they would want you to concentrate more on China and will say one day fk off to you, some of them are already pushing for mediation.. as i said you have shown us a window, we can exploit and create international drama around Kashmir every now and then, we know you dont have courage to go all out where you really have conventional advantage and Pakistan can respond to every low level aggression as we did.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Yeah that tik tok is going on for long, How many Kashmiri killed yours? they killed five next day after Pulwama if i remember correctly.. lol what is the new score?

Your hands are tied, US is on your side, but for how long, they would want you to concentrate more on China and will say one day fk off to you, some of them are already pushing for mediation.. as i said you have shown us a window, we can exploit and create international drama around Kashmir every now and then, we know you dont have courage to go all out where you really have conventional advantage and Pakistan can respond to every low level aggression as we did.

you are forgetting that most of the security forces killed are not actually military, but police and CRPF. the army is mostly on the LOC. And Pulwama means we will not use the restraint previously shown. It has been over a month since any security personal was killed, and in that same period, we killed 18 of their terrorists. You should realize by now that the militants can never win. And it is not just the US that supports us on Kashmir. Most major countries do including Russia, UK, and France. China is neutral. Even the UAE and Iran are more favorable to our position, among other countries in the region. There is no chance of you winning the Kashmir dispute diplomatically, so your only hope for a change in status quo is by attempting to take Kashmir by force. And that did not work out to well for you the last three times you attempted it.

But you are right, India will never launch a full-scale war against Pakistan. There simply is not the political will for that, since the costs will be too high for the Indian establishment and public to bare even though we will likely end up victorious. Skirmishes like this could happen occasionaly, but they won't have any effect on the situation.

Ultimately, the status quo benefits India, and there is little Pakistan can do. BUt if Pakistan is serious about solving the Kashmir dispute, then it should recognize the LOC as an international Border. Than it will be more politically feasible for the Indian Government to hold talks with the Hurriyat. Remember Atal Bihari Vajpayee did exactly that, until Kargil happened.