Era of wars over, ready to resolve all issues with India: Pakistan

[Tshering22]

Era of wars over

On the contrary, the era of war has just begun... . This farce peace process is like many others in the past which will go down the moment someone gets ready to foot the generals' bills once again like USA did once.

No fake peace process this time.

 

[Icarus]

Again I repeat, if the Pakistan stops meddling in Kashmir and cracks down on non-state (and some rogue state) actors acting out of its territory and targeting India, Indians dont have any reason to be mindful of Pakistan. The madarsahs, beards..we dont have any reason to worry about anything. That is your internal matter.

Indian dislike for Pakistan is not ideological, but political and security related while I cant say the same for a section of Pakistanisto whom the hate of India is idealogical and no amount of political solutions can heal that.

Pakistan has not meddled in Kashmir since the 2002-03 tensions subsided, there are no terror camps based to train militants to attack India, see those are the stereotypes that I was talking about.
As for the second part, TOI and Jang's findings suggest otherwise. According to a poll held in India and Pakistan on whether the two countries should be on friendly terms or not. 55% Indians responded in affirmative as opposed to 72% Pakistanis.
Again, that's the stereotypes talking, to think that Pakistanis hate India and that it can't ever subside.


http://amankiasha.com/poll_result.asp

 

[Solomon2]

No fake peace process this time.

I'm annoyed at your attitude. Look at the Israelis, Indians aren't shy about asking Jews to make much greater sacrifices for the sake of a "fake peace process". By comparison, the glaciers are unihabited wastes and India and Pakistan are far bigger than Israel.

The news from Pakistan sounds good. So why shouldn't India unilaterally pull back its forces tomorrow?

By Pakistan's military response you'll get a better idea of Pakistan's intentions. If the PA tries to advance under some sort of excuse the PM can probably exert enough influence now to get them to pull back to their previous positions, if not further.

There is little risk and much to be gained by peace. Unless, of course, India would rather encourage its neighbor to remain a screwed-up country.

 

[RazPaK]

Pakistan has not meddled in Kashmir since the 2002-03 tensions subsided, there are no terror camps based to train militants to attack India, see those are the stereotypes that I was talking about.
As for the second part, TOI and Jang's findings suggest otherwise. According to a poll held in India and Pakistan on whether the two countries should be on friendly terms or not. 55% Indians responded in affirmative as opposed to 72% Pakistanis.
Again, that's the stereotypes talking, to think that Pakistanis hate India and that it can't ever subside.


Aman ki Asha - A Peace initiative by Jang Group, Pakistan & Times of India

Blah Blah Blah. This is the India propaganda machine at work. We recognize it, but get called jingoistic.

 

[Abhishek_]

By Pakistan's military response you'll get a better idea of Pakistan's intentions.

been there, done that.
that is why IA insists on delineation of the AGPL before withdrawal. Thank you for sharing your thoughts

 

[rockstarIN]

I'm annoyed at your attitude. Look at the Israelis, Indians aren't shy about asking Jews to make much greater sacrifices for the sake of a "fake peace process". By comparison, the glaciers are unihabited wastes and India and Pakistan are far bigger than Israel.

The news from Pakistan sounds good. So why shouldn't India unilaterally pull back its forces tomorrow?

By Pakistan's military response you'll get a better idea of Pakistan's intentions. If the PA tries to advance under some sort of excuse the PM can probably exert enough influence now to get them to pull back to their previous positions, if not further.

There is little risk and much to be gained by peace. Unless, of course, India would rather encourage its neighbor to remain a screwed-up country.

two points,

We were backstabed once while we vacate our kargil heights ( that too at the height of peace process)

If they occupy the Siachin, we will have to fight 2 years to evict them from the glacier, its the hightest battle field.

 

[Solomon2]

We were backstabed once while we vacate our kargil heights ( that too at the height of peace process)

I know. My point is that this time the atmosphere feels different and the P.A. can't successfully do the same thing again - or at least not right now.

 

[Abhishek_]

I know. My point is that this time the atmosphere feels different and the P.A. can't successfully do the same thing again - or at least not right now.

we can't go by feelings. sorry
all we ask is the current positions be recognized, so tomorrow if there is any violation from either side, there will be a legal proof of the current positions.

 

[Solomon2]

If they occupy the Siachin, we will have to fight 2 years to evict them from the glacier, its the hightest battle field.

It would be a difficult deployment and an even more difficult logistical challenge. Even without avalanches or battles Pakistan will probably be the loser.

we can't go by feelings.

That's the leap of faith your leaders would have to make.

 

[deckingraj]

I know. My point is that this time the atmosphere feels different and the P.A. can't successfully do the same thing again - or at least not right now.

Sorry but nation do not make their action plans on what people feels...they work on hard core ground realities.....Why would any party do a unilateral removal of the army??? There has to be some sort of agreement b/w them, no???? This is insane and b/w here we are talking about two nations who have been at each other throat for decades...this is no child's play....All those who are thinking of some big ticket item are living in fool's paradise...The resolution of conflict start at low level and quiet boring path(CBM's) before it get's going...

 

[Abhishek_]

That's the leap of faith your leaders would have to make.

sorry I don't see that happening. the current positions of the two armies needs to be recognized before withdrawal

 

[deckingraj]

It would be a difficult deployment and an even more difficult logistical challenge. Even without avalanches or battles Pakistan will probably be the loser.

That's the leap of faith your leaders would have to make.

and you are making your argument and such big statements based on what??

 

[Tamizhan]

I'm annoyed at your attitude. Look at the Israelis, Indians aren't shy about asking Jews to make much greater sacrifices for the sake of a "fake peace process". By comparison, the glaciers are unihabited wastes and India and Pakistan are far bigger than Israel.

There is a crucial difference. Unlike Israel which is completely surrounded by hostile powers and has to make peace with them one day or other, India is in no such position. Anyway personally what happens in Middle East remains in Middle East. I could not care less for what the Israelis or Palestinians do.

Actually from a realpolitik point of view, engaging Pakistan in these pointless pursuits just for the sake of India suits Indian strategy just fine.

The news from Pakistan sounds good. So why shouldn't India unilaterally pull back its forces tomorrow?

By Pakistan's military response you'll get a better idea of Pakistan's intentions. If the PA tries to advance under some sort of excuse the PM can probably exert enough influence now to get them to pull back to their previous positions, if not further.

That is a lame exercise. Siachen is lawfully ours according to the Karachi and Shimla agrements which clearly state the LoC ends at Point NJ9842 and extends thence North to the Glaciers.

Also Pakistan unlike India has no one center of power from where the decisions are made. Tomorrow one rogue general may try to prove his valor by pulling of another Kargil without even the knowledge of the politicians.

 

[deckingraj]

There is a crucial difference. Unlike Israel which is completely surrounded by hostile powers and has to make peace with them one day or other, India is in no such position. Anyway personally what happens in Middle East remains in Middle East. I could not care less for what the Israelis or Palestinians do.

Actually from a realpolitik point of view, engaging Pakistan in these pointless pursuits just for the sake of India suits Indian strategy just fine.

Well there is no other choice that India and Pakistan have apart from induging in these pointless exercise...Though the need of the day is we should stop expecting miracles...For the first time serious work is going on as far as CBM's is concerned...so let the time take its own course...

That is a lame exercise. Siachen is lawfully ours according to the Karachi and Shimla agreements which clearly state the LoC ends at Point NJ9842 and extends thence North to the Glaciers.

Factually wrong...Siachen is neither lawfully ours nor theirs...The karachi as well as Shimla agreement both did not explain the area pretty well...Both sides have their own interpretations of "Northwards"...The way we feel our interpretation is right in the same token they believe theirs is correct...

 

[Solomon2]

they work on hard core ground realities...

That's what's keeping you in this mess.

Why would any party do a unilateral removal of the army???

Gee, you Indians preach peace to others but then when push comes to shove refuse to sign non-proliferation treaties and invade other nations' territories for the purpose of expansion. Who is better, India or Pakistan? Like choosing between The Walrus and the Carpenter.

..."The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings."

"But wait a bit," the Oysters cried,
"Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!"
"No hurry!" said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.

"A loaf of bread," the Walrus said,
"Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed--
Now if you're ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed."

"But not on us!" the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
"After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!"
"The night is fine," the Walrus said.
"Do you admire the view?

"It was so kind of you to come!
And you are very nice!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"Cut us another slice:
I wish you were not quite so deaf--
I've had to ask you twice!"

"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"

"I weep for you," the Walrus said:
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none--
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.

There has to be some sort of agreement b/w them, no????

No.

'I like the Walrus best,' said Alice: 'because he was a little sorry for the poor oysters.'

'He ate more than the Carpenter, though,' said Tweedledee. 'You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise.'

'That was mean!' Alice said indignantly. 'Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus.'

'But he ate as many as he could get,' said Tweedledum.

This was a puzzler. After a pause, Alice began, 'Well! They were both very unpleasant characters—'