What's new

End the Afghan war now…

Jango

SENIOR MODERATOR
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
21,530
Reaction score
99
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
800px-Remnants_of_an_army2.jpg



Eric S. Margolis (America Angle) / 28 May 2012

One of my favourite artists was the superb Victorian painter Lady Jane Butler who captured in oil the triumphs and tragedies of the British Empire.
Her haunting painting, “The Retreat from Kabul, ” shows the sole survivor of a British army of 16,500, Dr. William Brydon, struggling out of Afghanistan in January, 1842. All the rest were killed by Afghan tribesmen after a futile attempt to garrison Kabul.

This gripping painting should have hung over the Nato summit meeting last week in Chicago to remind the US and its allies that Afghanistan remains “the graveyard of empires.”

The latest empire to try to conquer Afghanistan has failed, and is now sounding the retreat.

All the hot air in Chicago about “transition,” Afghan self-reliance, and growing security could not conceal the truth that the mighty US and its Western allies have been beaten in Afghanistan by a bunch of mountain warriors from the 12th Century. The objective of war is to achieve political goals, not kill people. The US goal was to turn Afghanistan into a protectorate providing bases close to Caspian Basin oil, and to block China. After an eleven-year war costing $1 trillion, this effort failed – meaning a military and political defeat.

The US dragged Nato into a war in which it had no business and lacked any popular support. The result: a serious weakening of the NATO alliance, raising questions about whose interests it really serves. The defeat in Afghanistan will undermine US domination of Western Europe.

Claims made in Chicago that the US-installed Afghan regime will stand on its own with $4 billion of aid from the West were pie in the sky. Once US support ends, the Karzai regime is unlikely to survive much longer than did Najibullah’s Afghan Communist regime in Kabul after its Soviet sponsor withdrew in 1989. Or the US-run South Vietnamese regime that fell in 1975.

The current 350,000-man Afghan government army and police are mercenaries fighting for money supplied by the US and NATO. Many are ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks, blood foes of the majority Pashtun. Taleban and its allies are fighting for nationalism and faith. History tells us who will prevail.

All Afghans know the Western powers have been defeated. Those with sense are already making deals with Taleban. Vengeance being a cherished Afghan custom, those who collaborated closely with the foreign forces can expect little mercy. Already there are worries about getting US and Nato troops out of Afghanistan. France’s new President, Francois Hollande, wisely reaffirmed his pledge to withdraw all French troops this year. Other Nato members are wishing they could do the same. To wage and sustain the Afghan War, the US has been forced to virtually occupy Pakistan, bribe its high officials, and force Islamabad to follow policies hated by 95 per cent of its people, generating virulent anti-Americanism. The Afghan War must be ended before it tears apart Pakistan and plunges South Asia into crisis into which nuclear-armed India is likely to become involved.

Washington intends to leave garrisons in Afghanistan after the 2014 announced pullout date, rebranding them ‘trainers’ instead of combat troops. Their mission will be to keep the pro-US Afghan regime in power. But neither the US nor NATO will come up with the $4 billion promised in Chicago.

Washington is encouraging India to get ever more deeply involved in Afghanistan – even to become its new colonial power. India would be wise to keep its hands off.

In a second “Retreat from Kabul,” remaining US garrisons in Afghanistan may face the fate of the 1842 British invaders, cut off, ambushed, and hacked to pieces by the ferocious 
Pashtun tribesmen.

Eric Margolis is a veteran US journalist


End the Afghan war now…
 
.
The current 350,000-man Afghan government army and police are mercenaries fighting for money supplied by the US and NATO. Many are ethnic Uzbeks and Tajiks, blood foes of the majority Pashtun. Taleban and its allies are fighting for nationalism and faith. History tells us who will prevail.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/afghanistan-defence/183118-end-afghan-war-now.html#ixzz1wCY3VeKr


Not to mention, the 10 year long ethnic cleansing of Pashtoons.... i don't know how many are still alive but they are certainly not happy, with carpet bombing and mishandling of the survivors and captives.
 
. .
The war will soon enter a new phase -- that phase will see the ANA become better positioned to be rule from Kabul, even as it fragments in the periphery

You are ignoring the truth mentioned in the article.... i.e. ANA is a blood foe of Pashtoons.

Dictated by Iranians and trained by Indians and funded by NATO.

It is a force which has been in fore front of ethnic cleansing of Pashtoons.

Additionaly, ANA keep firing at civilians across the border and celebrate deaths of Pakistani soldiers. :tdown:

ANA certainly is not recipe for success.
 
.
ANA troops are not yet professional enough to handle miscreants. NATO needs to stay in Afghanistan for a longer period so that ANA can be better trained.

USSR withdrew from Afghanistan, leaving the country with a professional army. However, the army was unable to handle the civil war. NATO must not repeat the same mistake.
 
.
You are ignoring the truth mentioned in the article.... i.e. ANA is a blood foe of Pashtoons.

Dictated by Iranians and trained by Indians and funded by NATO.

It is a force which has been in fore front of ethnic cleansing of Pashtoons.

Additionaly, ANA keep firing at civilians across the border and celebrate deaths of Pakistani soldiers. :tdown:

ANA certainly is not recipe for success.

You don't have a clue about things you talk about, read more and post less - no one has suggested the ANA is the recipe for success, quite the opposite - read for comprehension, please

NATO needs to stay in Afghanistan for a longer period so that ANA can be better trained.

NATO, read US is going to stay longer - and just between you and I, Green on Blue will become a more frequent thing -- BTW, there is a report on the cultural incompatibility between US and Afghan troops, perhaps if you can fish it out on Google and present it, it may be a service to readers
 
. . .
ANA troops are not yet professional enough to handle miscreants. NATO needs to stay in Afghanistan for a longer period so that ANA can be better trained.

USSR withdrew from Afghanistan, leaving the country with a professional army. However, the army was unable to handle the civil war. NATO must not repeat the same mistake.



Indian Troll is back.......

What is the matter Bharati, are you too ashamed to fly your Indian flag.

Guess what gave you away ?

MISCREANTS ? I have never heard that word from Russians or any one else other than Indians.

Do us all a favor and stop Trolling...
 
.
These are just the top tier



RESULTS - ANSF Participants
TOP
TIER
GRIEVANCES ANSFs HAVE WITH U.S. SOLDIERS
* Indicates that ANSF member reported serious altercations occurred between ANSF and u.s.
Forces as a result ofgrievance or incident.
*OFTEN CONDUCT NIGHT RAIDS AND HOME SEARCHES INSTEAD OF ANSF
* "Eight months ago in ... Province U.S. Soldiers insisted on searching a villager's home, even
after he took out a Koran and put it in the ANA's face pleading for respect. Initially, the
U.S. Soldiers ignored the ANA's pleas to not search the home. It wasn't until the ANA
charged their weapons and a Canadian Captain intervened, that the U.S. Soldiers listened
and changed their mind about doing the search. Two ANA searched the house instead. Koran outranks orders.

"Arrests should be made during the daytime."
"The U.S. needs the ANA's permission before they conduct home searches."
"They get upset due to their casualties, so they take it out on civilians during their searches."

*DON'T RESPECT WOMEN OR THEIR PRIVACY
"While on patrol U.S. soldiers ignored us and climbed onto a roof and observed the women
inside the yard."
*"A U.S. Soldier broke down a door to go into a female's room. I told him he could not do that;
we almost fought but he then relented. This could have turned into a firefight."
* "They take photos of women even when we tell them not to."
*"At COP ... nine months ago they tried to search a woman. We aimed our guns at them to stop
it.
"
*SET UP ROAD BLOCKS AND STOPPING TRAFFICIREFUSE TO LET SICK PASS
*"When efforts were made to get three injured women to a clinic, the U.S. soldiers threatened us
and called us 'Mother Fuckers. ",
*"When we tried to escort a civilian vehicle with a sick woman inside the U.S. Soldier said,
'**** No.' I put an RPG on my shoulder and he then let us pass."

*CONVOYS NOT ALLOWING TRAFFIC TO PASS, EVEN ANSF CONVOYS
*"When an ANA truck tried to pass a U.S. convoy a gunner pointed a .50 Caliber machine gun
at it. The ANA then pointed an RPG at the gunner; they then allowed the ANA truck to
pass."
"They think that they own all the roads. It is shameful for us to have civilians see that we can't
pass U.S. convoys."
"Civilians get very angry from being delayed by slow U.S. convoys that won't let them pass."
IF ATTACKED, THEY SHOOT INDISCRIMINANTLY
"U.S. Soldiers kill many innocent civilians if attacked. They kill everyone around."
"After a suicide bomber detonated, the U.S. Soldiers overreacted and destroyed many civilian
cars nearby."
"If
ambushed U.S. Soldiers panic, spraying fire in all directions; they don't care about civilian
casualties." [Fact check: The researcher has conductedfield studies here for four years
(boots on ground) and has been in many combat engagements throughout some ofthe most
kinetic regions in Afghanistan (i.e., the Korengal andPech Valleys, Kamdesh, Nuristan,
including COP Keating, etc.) and has never seen a u.s. Soldier panic during battle. In
contrast, ANSF members, with a few exceptions, were seen to be fairly gutless in combat.]
THEY CAUSE MANY CIVILIAN AND ANSF CASUALTIES
"At ... last summer the U.S. Army killed many civilians. Just local people were killed; not
insurgents. "
"In ... , a U.S. MRAP killed six civilians traveling in a vehicle; it was intentional."
"In ... , after the U.S. Forces accidentally killed three civilians, they brought the survivors
humanitarian aid. The family set fire to it. There was no investigation ofthe incident;
there is no accountability. The entire village is now anti-GIRoA"
"Ourjoint convoy was attacked and an ANA vehicle was disabled, but the U.S. continued on.
They did not help us."
"They cause many civilian casualties; they apologize, but they keep doing it. This isn't acceptable."
"In ... U.S. Soldiers killed two youths. Their mother then became a suicide bomber; she was
provoked by this atrocity. She went to Paradise as a martyr."

*THEY CURSE CONSTANTLY
* "A US. Soldier told an interpreter to teach him Pashtu curse words. When the interpreter
refused the soldier hit him. Another put a rifle to his forehead. The ANA then locked
and loaded their guns ... The US. Captain in-charge apologized ... The interpreter quit."
(Recounted by CAT 1 interpreters)
*"We (the ANA) once loaded and charged our weapons because we got tired ofthe US. Soldiers
calling us 'Mother Fuckers. '"
"They always shout and yell 'Mother ******!' They are crazy."
"US.
soldiers swear at us constantly, saying '**** You!' They didn't do this at...; we were like
brothers there; but not in .... "
*EXTREMELY ARROGANT; FAIL TO LISTEN TO OR TAKE ADVICE FROM ANSF
"US.
Soldiers don't listen; they are too arrogant." (very often repeated refrain)
*"They often fail to listen to or act on our intelligence, so we do not trust them. Their arrogance
sickens us."
"We try to wam them if the enemy is planning something, but they usually fail to listen and get
shot up."
*PUBLICLY SEARCH ANSF WHEN THEY ENTER JOINT BASE~ TIDS IS
INSULTING AND HUMILIATING
*"A U.S. Soldier insisted on searching our officer at the gate. When he refused the soldier said,
'**** you.' The officer got pissed and drew his gun. It was very wrong for him to swear
at an officer."
"The U.S. does this in front ofAfghan civilians; civilians ridicule us for submitting to this. It is
shameful. "
"They treat us like thieves."
"They disarm us (the ANP) and take our cell phones at the ECP."
 
.
These are just the top tier



RESULTS - ANSF Participants
TOP
TIER
GRIEVANCES ANSFs HAVE WITH U.S. SOLDIERS
* Indicates that ANSF member reported serious altercations occurred between ANSF and u.s.
Forces as a result ofgrievance or incident.
*OFTEN CONDUCT NIGHT RAIDS AND HOME SEARCHES INSTEAD OF ANSF
* "Eight months ago in ... Province U.S. Soldiers insisted on searching a villager's home, even
after he took out a Koran and put it in the ANA's face pleading for respect. Initially, the
U.S. Soldiers ignored the ANA's pleas to not search the home. It wasn't until the ANA
charged their weapons and a Canadian Captain intervened, that the U.S. Soldiers listened
and changed their mind about doing the search. Two ANA searched the house instead. Koran outranks orders.

"Arrests should be made during the daytime."
"The U.S. needs the ANA's permission before they conduct home searches."
"They get upset due to their casualties, so they take it out on civilians during their searches."

*DON'T RESPECT WOMEN OR THEIR PRIVACY
"While on patrol U.S. soldiers ignored us and climbed onto a roof and observed the women
inside the yard."
*"A U.S. Soldier broke down a door to go into a female's room. I told him he could not do that;
we almost fought but he then relented. This could have turned into a firefight."
* "They take photos of women even when we tell them not to."
*"At COP ... nine months ago they tried to search a woman. We aimed our guns at them to stop
it.
"
*SET UP ROAD BLOCKS AND STOPPING TRAFFICIREFUSE TO LET SICK PASS
*"When efforts were made to get three injured women to a clinic, the U.S. soldiers threatened us
and called us 'Mother Fuckers. ",
*"When we tried to escort a civilian vehicle with a sick woman inside the U.S. Soldier said,
'**** No.' I put an RPG on my shoulder and he then let us pass."

*CONVOYS NOT ALLOWING TRAFFIC TO PASS, EVEN ANSF CONVOYS
*"When an ANA truck tried to pass a U.S. convoy a gunner pointed a .50 Caliber machine gun
at it. The ANA then pointed an RPG at the gunner; they then allowed the ANA truck to
pass."
"They think that they own all the roads. It is shameful for us to have civilians see that we can't
pass U.S. convoys."
"Civilians get very angry from being delayed by slow U.S. convoys that won't let them pass."
IF ATTACKED, THEY SHOOT INDISCRIMINANTLY
"U.S. Soldiers kill many innocent civilians if attacked. They kill everyone around."
"After a suicide bomber detonated, the U.S. Soldiers overreacted and destroyed many civilian
cars nearby."
"If
ambushed U.S. Soldiers panic, spraying fire in all directions; they don't care about civilian
casualties." [Fact check: The researcher has conductedfield studies here for four years
(boots on ground) and has been in many combat engagements throughout some ofthe most
kinetic regions in Afghanistan (i.e., the Korengal andPech Valleys, Kamdesh, Nuristan,
including COP Keating, etc.) and has never seen a u.s. Soldier panic during battle. In
contrast, ANSF members, with a few exceptions, were seen to be fairly gutless in combat.]
THEY CAUSE MANY CIVILIAN AND ANSF CASUALTIES
"At ... last summer the U.S. Army killed many civilians. Just local people were killed; not
insurgents. "
"In ... , a U.S. MRAP killed six civilians traveling in a vehicle; it was intentional."
"In ... , after the U.S. Forces accidentally killed three civilians, they brought the survivors
humanitarian aid. The family set fire to it. There was no investigation ofthe incident;
there is no accountability. The entire village is now anti-GIRoA"
"Ourjoint convoy was attacked and an ANA vehicle was disabled, but the U.S. continued on.
They did not help us."
"They cause many civilian casualties; they apologize, but they keep doing it. This isn't acceptable."
"In ... U.S. Soldiers killed two youths. Their mother then became a suicide bomber; she was
provoked by this atrocity. She went to Paradise as a martyr."

*THEY CURSE CONSTANTLY
* "A US. Soldier told an interpreter to teach him Pashtu curse words. When the interpreter
refused the soldier hit him. Another put a rifle to his forehead. The ANA then locked
and loaded their guns ... The US. Captain in-charge apologized ... The interpreter quit."
(Recounted by CAT 1 interpreters)
*"We (the ANA) once loaded and charged our weapons because we got tired ofthe US. Soldiers
calling us 'Mother Fuckers. '"
"They always shout and yell 'Mother ******!' They are crazy."
"US.
soldiers swear at us constantly, saying '**** You!' They didn't do this at...; we were like
brothers there; but not in .... "
*EXTREMELY ARROGANT; FAIL TO LISTEN TO OR TAKE ADVICE FROM ANSF
"US.
Soldiers don't listen; they are too arrogant." (very often repeated refrain)
*"They often fail to listen to or act on our intelligence, so we do not trust them. Their arrogance
sickens us."
"We try to wam them if the enemy is planning something, but they usually fail to listen and get
shot up."
*PUBLICLY SEARCH ANSF WHEN THEY ENTER JOINT BASE~ TIDS IS
INSULTING AND HUMILIATING
*"A U.S. Soldier insisted on searching our officer at the gate. When he refused the soldier said,
'**** you.' The officer got pissed and drew his gun. It was very wrong for him to swear
at an officer."
"The U.S. does this in front ofAfghan civilians; civilians ridicule us for submitting to this. It is
shameful. "
"They treat us like thieves."
"They disarm us (the ANP) and take our cell phones at the ECP."
Of course, ANA will hide its own incompetence and put all blame on US troops. ANA has never frustrated US troops?

This is sufficient hint:

Fact check: The researcher has conductedfield studies here for four years (boots on ground) and has been in many combat engagements throughout some ofthe most kinetic regions in Afghanistan (i.e., the Korengal andPech Valleys, Kamdesh, Nuristan, including COP Keating, etc.) and has never seen a u.s. Soldier panic during battle. In contrast, ANSF members, with a few exceptions, were seen to be fairly gutless in combat.

The US is trying to turn ANA in to a professional force but ANA troops are two much culture-bound.

But I do think that US troops should be respectful to Afghan women at least or use women troops to deal with them.
 
.
Please read the report.

Whatever your position on this conflict, or the US or Pakistan or Talib , "Houston, we have a problem.."
 
.
Link is not working unfortunately.

Regardless, my position on Afghanistan is that I desire it to become a stable and prosperous state. But this cannot be accomplished as long as barbarians will get support and civil war will continue. Afghans need to change themselves for good.

Afghanistan used to be an amazing country during 1950s.
 
.
Please read the report.

Whatever your position on this conflict, or the US or Pakistan or Talib , "Houston, we have a problem.."

Links fine would recommend all read it.
 
.
Right click on the link, and open in new tab, that did it for me.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom