Emerging Taiwanese identity

[ChineseTiger1986]

Xi Jinping did the exact same thing as Bo Xilai, they didn't like each other because they were the competitors for the throne, but both will wave the Maoist flag.

A lot of corrupt CPC members are scared of Maoism, that's Xi Jinping will fight these corrupt princelings (most from Deng's faction) by using Maoism.

习近平指出，毛泽东思想活的灵魂是贯穿其中的立场、观点、方法，它们有三个基本方面，这就是实事求是、群众路线、独立自主。新形势下，我们要坚持和运用好毛泽东思想活的灵魂，把我们党建设好，把中国特色社会主义伟大事业继续推向前进。实事求是，是马克思主义的根本观点，是中国共产党人认识世界、改造世界的根本要求，是我们党的基本思想方法、工作方法、领导方法，不论过去、现在和将来，我们都要坚持一切从实际出发，理论联系实际，在实践中检验真理和发展真理。群众路线是我们党的生命线和根本工作路线，是我们党永葆青春活力和战斗力的重要传家宝，不论过去、现在和将来，我们都要坚持一切为了群众，一切依靠群众，从群众中来，到群众中去，把党的正确主张变为群众的自觉行动，把群众路线贯彻到治国理政全部活动之中。独立自主是我们党从中国实际出发、依靠党和人民力量进行革命、建设、改革的必然结论，不论过去、现在和将来，我们都要把国家和民族发展放在自己力量的基点上，坚持民族自尊心和自信心，坚定不移走自己的路。

习近平:新形势下要坚持和运用好毛泽东思想活的灵魂-高层动态-新华网

 

[Okemos]

It ended in the Christian and Communist hands.

Most of mainlanders are very happy with that statement, because the inferior civilization was finally gone. 1.3 billions of idiots.

I agree with you. They love to label everything Chinese as "封建“ or feudalism as bad, backward, superstitious, etc, you name it, but they don't even know what feudalism means, lol. Feudalism ended when Qin united China as an empire. But I don't know whether those people are still majority among younger generations or not, I hope the people here are not representative.

I have been watching public courses offered by National Taiwan University. If Taiwanese identity is being formed, so be it. I am not even sure Chinese in mainland China mean anything. It now probably means a citizen of China, and you get Russian Chinese, Tibetan Chinese, Korean Chinese, etc, lol. Chinese has been transformed from a cultural term to a political term in modern politics and in this regard, I don't see any reason why Taiwanese identity cannot be created since Taiwan is a de facto political entity.

 

[Kyle Sun]

It ended in the Christian and Communist hands.

Most of mainlanders are very happy with that statement, because the inferior civilization was finally gone. 1.3 billions of idiots.

No matter we 1.3 billion Chinese are idiots or not , we still can kick Taiwanese like a lapdog.

No matter who the hell is your great daddy , you still is a lapdog.

Try to liberate the 1.3 billion with your fantastic civilization Please!

Try to be independent Please!

As a lapdog , your job is using your mouth to 'bark'and eat shit !!!

 

[Kolaps]

I agree with you. They love to label everything Chinese as "封建“ or feudalism as bad, backward, superstitious, etc, you name it, but they don't even know what feudalism means, lol. Feudalism ended when Qin united China as an empire. But I don't know whether those people are still majority among younger generations or not, I hope the people here are not representative.

封建 or feudalism is a copy-paste propaganda from Europe.

So you can already see how the political revolution in China back then, was disconnected and not representing China at all. It feel like, Chinese revolutions and governments were created by the people who don't know about China. I feel like, it was all entirely created by foreigner and add a little "mainstream image" in the West about China at the time, to cover it to fool common Chinese people. But any hardcore Chinese know there's something wrong.

How do I say it?

It feel like we were forced to abandon Chinese civilization and being foreign dogs like today, both in mainland and Taiwan.

 

[Kyle Sun]

封建 or feudalism is a copy-paste propaganda from Europe.

So you can already see how the political revolution in China back then, was disconnected and not representing China at all. It feel like, Chinese revolutions and governments were created by the people who don't know about China. I feel like, it was all entirely created by foreigner and add a little "mainstream image" in the West about China at the time, to cover it to fool common Chinese people. But any hardcore Chinese know there's something wrong.

How do I say it?

It feel like we were forced to abandon Chinese civilization and being foreign dogs like today, both in mainland and Taiwan.

You are doing your job very well now.

 

[Kolaps]

You are doing your job very well now.

What China need is another revolution to restore back our Chinese as the foundation and core of the state. A lot of wrong perspective and history need to be fixed as well.

We don't need a big bang revolution, but it can done in slower process without disturbing economy and development progress at all.

 

[Wholegrain]

Northern Chinese are bastard Mongols and Turks. Beijing was under barbarian since Northern Song most of the time. 自石敬瑭割燕云十六州后，除明三百年，冀州尽入蛮族之手。

No such things as pure Han Chinese other than in the moronic minds of someone here, who do not know they are too barbaric bastard.

No idiot, most northern Chinese have Han Chinese y chromosome haplogroup O3. Mongol and turk chromosome is haplogroup C.

This is northern Han haplogroup

This is northern and southern Han compared to Mongols and Turkic peoples

Majority of Han is o3

The mongol C chromosome barely registers in the han population in Gansu

lol, another bitter KMT fanboy spotted, your father Chiang is the biggest loser.

You must refer to your KMT, they have many masters, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union and United States of America.

And who knows how many more they have.



Those bitter KMT fanboys will always remain as losers, because they are supporting a loser from the very beginning.

The KMT has the EXACT SAME affirmative action policy that the CCP has for minorities, and the same minority language policies. In fact the KMT promoted minority language learning (mongolian, tibetan) cracking down on minnan.

Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Free and independent Taiwan forever.

Hello Hindu troll pretending to be Muslim

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No idiot, most northern Chinese have Han Chinese y chromosome haplogroup O3. Mongol and turk chromosome is haplogroup C.

This is northern Han haplogroup

This is northern and southern Han compared to Mongols and Turkic peoples

Majority of Han is o3

The mongol C chromosome barely registers in the han population in Gansu

The KMT has the EXACT SAME affirmative action policy that the CCP has for minorities, and the same minority language policies. In fact the KMT promoted minority language learning (mongolian, tibetan) cracking down on minnan.

Mongolian and Tibetan Affairs Commission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hello Hindu troll pretending to be Muslim

Quite surprising that we Shanghainese have less O3 and more O1 compared to the rest of Chinese groups.

 

[Wholegrain]

Quite surprising that we Shanghainese have less O3 and more O1 compared to the rest of Chinese groups.

Thats because the Wu/Jiangnan region was a center of strong culture and civilization before the Huaxia civilization from yellow river region (xia, shang, and zhou civilizations) spread out to other areas of China. They supported a higher population density. The Liangzhu culture rivaled that of the Huaxia Erlitou culture and Xia dynasty in the Yellow River. The Liangzhu people were mostly O1 while Huaxia were O3.

Liangzhu culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eventually when this area was ruled by the Wu state, it was gradually pulled into the orbit of Zhou civilization and its rulers began claiming descent from Zhou royalty and adopted Chinese writing.

Wu (state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the Fujian and Guangdong areas were less developed and had less advanced civilizations than Liangzhu, so the irony is that since Fujian and Guangdong were flooded with so many Han migrants from the central plains, nowadays, Fujianese and Cantonese have more northern Han y chromosome O3 than Wu speaking people, even though they are farther from Henan (yellow river region) than Jiangnan. Cantonese and Fujian Min people are closer to northern Han than Jiangnan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Thats because the Wu region was a center of strong culture and civilization before the Huaxia civilization from yellow river region (xia, shang, and zhou civilizations) spread out to other areas of China. They supported a higher population density. The Liangzhou culture rivaled that of the Erlitou and Xia in the Yellow River.

Liangzhu culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eventually when this area was ruled by the Wu state, it was gradually pulled into the orbit of Zhou civilization and its rulers began claiming descent from Zhou royalty and adopted Chinese writing.

Wu (state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the Fujian and Guangdong areas were less developed, so the irony is that since Fujian and Guangdong were flooded with so many Han migrants from the central plains, nowadays, Fujianese and Cantonese have more northern Han y chromosome than Wu speaking people, even though they are farther from Henan (yellow river region) than Jiangnan.

Well, Huaxia groups have brought a lot of women to the Jiangnan region, so a lot of native O1 men had married with those O3 men's women.

While Fujian and Guangdong were flooded by a large number of male O3 expatriates who later married the local women.

Cantonese have more male Huaxia lineage and less female Huaxia lineage, while Shanghainese are the opposite.

 

[Wholegrain]

Well, Huaxia groups have brought a lot women to the Jiangnan region, so a lot of native O1 men had married with those O3 men's women.

While Fujian and Guangdong were flooded by a large number of male O3 expatriates who later married the local women.

Cantonese have more male Huaxia lineage and less female Huaxia lineage, while Shanghainese are the opposite.

Cantonese preserves the middle Chinese Tang dynasty phonology (pronunciation like the t and k finals, no longer found in Mandarin), while Min dialects in Fujian preserved Old Chinese phonology and grammar better than any other dialects.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Cantonese preserves the middle Chinese Tang dynasty phonology (pronunciation like the t and k finals, no longer found in Mandarin), while Min dialects in Fujian preserved Old Chinese phonology and grammar better than any other dialects.

This could have been done by the later wave of the northern immigrants after the first wave from the Qin Dynasty.

 

[Wholegrain]

This could have been done by the later wave of the northern immigrants after the first wave from the Qin Dynasty.

Y chromosomes of prehistoric people along the Yang... [Hum Genet. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

EBSCOhost | 27081679 | Y chromosomes of prehistoric people along the Yangtze River.

Hum Genet. 2007 Nov;122(3-4):383-8. Epub 2007 Jul 27.
Y chromosomes of prehistoric people along the Yangtze River.
Li H, Huang Y, Mustavich LF, Zhang F, Tan JZ, Wang LE, Qian J, Gao MH, Jin L.
Author information

Abstract
The ability to extract mitochondrial and nuclear DNA from ancient remains has enabled the study of ancient DNA, a legitimate field for over 20 years now. Recently, Y chromosome genotyping has begun to be applied to ancient DNA. The Y chromosome haplogroup in East Asia has since caught the attention of molecular anthropologists, as it is one of the most ethnic-related genetic markers of the region. In this paper, the Y chromosome haplogroup of DNA from ancient East Asians was examined, in order to genetically link them to modern populations. Fifty-six human remains were sampled from five archaeological sites, primarily along the Yangtze River. Strict criteria were followed to eliminate potential contamination. Five SNPs from the Y chromosome were successfully amplified from most of the samples, with at least 62.5% of the samples belonging to the O haplogroup, similar to the frequency for modern East Asian populations. A high frequency of O1 was found in Liangzhu Culture sites around the mouth of the Yangtze River, linking this culture to modern Austronesian and Daic populations. A rare haplogroup, O3d, was found at the Daxi site in the middle reaches of the Yangtze River, indicating that the Daxi people might be the ancestors of modern Hmong-Mien populations, which show only small traces of O3d today. Noticeable genetic segregation was observed among the prehistoric cultures, demonstrating the genetic foundation of the multiple origins of the Chinese Civilization.

I don't agree with the premise that it shows "multiple origins" of Chinese civilization, since Chinese civlization overwhelmingly originates in the Yellow River region with the Erlitou culture, Xia, and Shang dynasties, it just shows that some areas like Liangzhu were strong enough that they managed to preseve alot of their original population while merging and assimilating with the dominant Huaxia culture, while other areas like Fujian and Guangdong were mostly overrun by Huaxia migrants.

Liangzhu did contribute things like advanced rice agriculture and artwork motifs to Chinese culture while it was mostly assimilated by Huaxia. Liangzhu's rice agriculture probably had alot to do with sustaining a large population enought to survive assimilation with Huaxia civilization

Liangzhu culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liangzhu Archaeological Site - UNESCO World Heritage Centre

Comparison with Hongshan Culture Site: Liangzhu Archaeological Site locating in the plain of river network in the lower reach of the Yangtze River represents the peak of rice agriculture of south China in the late Neolithic Age, while Hongshan Culture Site in the hilly areas of Laoha River basin represents the summit of agriculture with hunting and livestock in north China in the initial stage of Chinese civilization. Respectively falling into Liangzhu Culture and Hongshan Culture, they both highlight jade culture and exhibit obvious differences in the form of settlement and religion.

良渚博物院

British Museum - Jade cong

Both Wu and Yue states were succesors to Liangzhu and were gradually sinicized, since the Wu ruler began to claim Zhou ancestry, and the Yue ruler claimed Xia dynasty ancestry, they adopted Chinese writing, and sought to participate in Zhou politics with the other Huaxia states. But the general population of Wu retained native customs like cutting their hair short and tattoing.

Yue (state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wu (state) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chinese History - Wu 吳 (www.chinaknowledge.de)

Apparently other cultures were mostly overrun by Huaxia culture, like Sanxingdui in Sichuan. They had unique artwork but not advanced agriculture like Liangzhu. Sichuan has been depopulated alot (during the mongol invasion and Zhang Xianzhong's rebellion) and then repopolated by northern Han migrants.

Sanxingdui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

O3 still makes up the single largest group though in all regions, Shanghainese and Jiangnan (Jiangsu and Zhejiang) people just have more native O1 chromosome than average

However, now the Jiangnan/Wu region is firmly within Chinese civilization and culture, the Wu and Yue kingdoms made the decision to assimilate into Huaxia culture and there has never been any separatist sentiment (what is okemos smoking?)

I totally agree with you. I'm disgusted with some Chinese members here. They probably belong to that spineless sellouts. The CCP elites worship western cultures. It's so disgusting. First they followed German Jews then Russians now Americans and they hate everything Chinese.

To be honest with you, I sometimes wish we people in Zhenjiang should go independent. Politics and culture are separate. I identify myself as Chinese but I don't care about paying tax to support minorities that have nothing to do with us.

Plus the stupid fucking ccp has just issued order to ban local dialects in TV, but they have been promoting minority language education. I wish I could be treated as minority so I can speak my mother tougn with pride.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Maybe Okemos and Mr. Second are O1 native Wuyue people, so they have the basic instinct of feeling closer towards Vietnamese.

But I am probably an O3 Shanghainese, since i have checked my family's (father side) 家谱.

My ancestry probably traced back to Henan, and it probably moved to the Jiangnan region after the fall of the Northern Song Dynasty.

 

[bolo]

the bold part is new to me. well, some Viets claim the Cantonese are their bothers and sisters since ancient times (NanYue/ NamViet). but since independence in 939 AD, the Vietnamese have always wanted to stay different from the Chinese. If we wanted remaining to be Chinese, after 1,000 years, why should we have tried to get rid off Beijing rule? Makes no sence.

they told you the myth of the Viet people: the creation of Vietnam.
Âu Cơ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can even hear Cantonese in London Chinatown. I must admit the Cantonese are really good in doing business.

don't quote me Wikipedia you fool.

Maybe Okemos and Mr. Second are O1 native Wuyue people, so they have the basic instinct of feeling closer towards Vietnamese.

But I am probably a O3 Shanghainese, since when i just checked my family's (father side) 家谱.

My ancestry probably traced back to Henan, and it probably moved to the Jiangnan region after the fall of the Northern Song Dynasty.

Mr Second is really a viet in my opinion with the ability to comprehend some Chinese. Like I said, most Viets claim they are Chinese or half Chinese because in reality they are too ashamed of their identity. Online, they are the opposite.