Eight Afghan police killed in Badakhshan Taliban clash

[53fd]

The fact of the matter is, the Taliban have deeply infiltrated the Afghan security & law enforcement forces, which is why we still keep seeing "complex" attacks taking place in Kabul & the surrounding areas all the time. And the Taliban have spread heavily in the North & the West, which have NOT had any real Taliban presence before.

I do hope thats true because the Al-Qaeeda was in bed with the Afghan Taliban too and unless I'm mistaken they did sanction attacks on Pakistan ! Khair...lets hope that you're true and to find that out 2014 is just around the corner !

You are mistaken!

The Afghan Taliban have never sanctioned any attacks on Pakistan. Please show me a link where Mullah Omar or the Afghan Taliban has sanctioned attacks against Pakistan. Al-Qaeda, which is a threat to Pakistan, has been severely weakened.

 

[Armstrong]

I was talking about the Al-Qaeed and OBL sanctioning attacks on Pakistan and Pakistanis and that the Taliban were not only entertaining but, as it appeared, putting their weight behind Al-Qaeeda !

 

[humanfirst]

They call Mullah Omar their Amir, yet they don't give a s*it to what he says about not attacking Pakistani civilians and troops. The TTP are being destroyed, their strongholds demolished, land they previously controlled has been taken back by Pakistan; & that is the ground reality. The Taliban in Afghanistan has not attacked Pakistan, they have condemned attacks against Pakistan; & the TTP, Punjabi Taliban have nothing (besides being a source of inspiration for their "Jihad") to do with them (unlike the Al-Qaeda).

There was a thread about the matter in which video of afghan taliban,TTP and Alquida leaders shown together,pledging each others support and justifying their cause..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/121400-all-talibans-ttp-alqaeda-one.html

Unfortunately that video is removed from Youtube but you can get the gist from that thread..

This is what Irfan Baloch posted in that thread(I think he is a pak military professional)

you really need to watch the whole vifdeo and not post comments that are hard to defend.
in the video, Al Qaeda, TTP, and Afghan taliban together are declaring their allegiance to Mullah Omar and also expressing full support of each other and praising and justifying their fight.

they admit that they are actually giving shelter to each other share men and material etc.
Mullah Fazlullah is not hiding in isolation in Afghanistan, likewise, the Haqqani group is not the state guest of Pakistan but is looked after by the Pakistani Taliban.

refer to the story of the death of Qari Hussain in Miram Shah area, when he was killed along with foreign Al Qaeda terrorists in a US drone strike. Mullah Baradar's capture in karachi is yet another example of close Taliban TTP cooperation. no one of them can come , hide and operate in other's area of opertion with out consent and support, so again it was the local sympathisers of Mullah Barader who were hiding him. these local sympathisers liked to be called TTP.

while Pakistan army and American drones had been chasing the TTP, they were in many cases found with Al Qaeda and Afghan taliban leadership, hence many drone strikes resulted in the killing of both the TTP and Afghan Taliban leaders.

 

[Sher Malang]

Yaar waisee hamarei bhi perspective seh dekho na ! Getting into the Afghan Jihad was, probably in retrospect, a fairly bad decisions but who was betting on the US and most of the world who were rooting for the Afghan Mujahideen to leave like that ! I mean we - the lot of us - created entire generations of Afghans and Pakistani Tribals who knew nothing but 'war' and they prescribed to a version of Islam (one that we taught them) which was disturbing to say the least and then when the time came of rehabilitating the country back into some sort of 'stability' the whole world turned its back on Afghanistan and Pakistan ! I believe the Taliban were Pakistan's attempt at trying to make the best out of a very...very bad situation ! The endless vendettas amongst Afghan Warlords had a terrible fallout on Pakistan where our already hurting economy due to sanctions was faced with an increasing influx of Afghan Refugees and an increasing radicalization of our society because all those elements who had fought in the Afghan Jihad - the same elements that we should have tried to rehabilitate back into society - were increasingly found on this side of the Durrand Line....so I believe the ISI supported the most amenable of the worst bunch - the Taliban - who went back to Afghanistan and put an end to the Civil War and the Opium Production that kept being smuggled into Pakistan ! Not a win-win situation by any stretch but an expedient one...an understandable one ! And then theres the support that many of them enjoyed amongst People on this side of the border. I'm not sure if the Pukhtoons in FATA and KP could identify as strongly with either Dostum, Rabbani or Masood but they could still identify with a Pukhtoon Movement and thats why, perhaps, the Taliban Movement was a way to ensure that some sort of stability be brought to Afghanistan utilizing the People and the ideology we had at our disposal namely 'Afghan Refugees' and 'Islamization' ! I think that was a pretty bad decision and one that placed us into precarious situations after another for example we couldn't enter North Waziristan because we didn't want to open up another front against the Afghan Taliban and we didn't want to engage the Haqqanis because we didn't want to be targeted by the Haqqanis once NATO and ISAF forces leave in 2014. All of which go back to the 'Afghan Jihad' - We should not have entered into it in the first-place because when you mix 'Religion, Guns and Poverty' together you end up with a very...very dangerous mix ! Khair whats done is done....! How do you suggest we move forward ? Because we can't just go into North Waziristan and engage the Afghan Taliban directly because then we'd have to content with them along with the TTP and whatever remains of Al-Qaeeda !

Yeah you are right, they will turn against Pakistani people; IMO the best option would be indirectly crippling these bastards and at a very first stage both sides should leave being selective on Taliban by not dividing them into two groups good and bad trust me both Taliban are bad! secondly Pakistan can cut Taliban's support in madrassas where they get funds and does recruitment; thirdly Pakistan should construct factories and other stuff to make the local people of FATA and KP busy with jobs; fourthly Pakistan can very seriously hunt down the leadership of Taliban and Al-Qaeda which indeed has given Pakistan the darkest stain in his history!

On our part we should kick out any element who stays in Afghanistan and works against Pakistan (even if USA is interfering she should be advised not to or else she should have the same faith), a trilateral committee should be made between Afghanistan - Pakistan - India; the committee should be responsible for discussing and solving decades problems between three nations and should vow for the development of each other and also make sure Pakistan that India consulates aren't working against Pakistan; Pakistan and Afghanistan's military leadership should get closer ties and have drills/trainings on regular basis; we are already in war so ANSF should intensify their assault against Pakistan Taliban who may rest in Nuristan/Kunar.

If things above comes to reality we would have no longer enmity, no hate, no refugees in Pakistan, no blasts, NO WOT!! all these objectives can be achieve till 2020 after that both countries should start negotiation on Durand line with clean hearts.

It will be nice if you tell me your version of moving forward?

 

[Imran Khan]

now thats sad man RIP to them

 

[Sher Malang]

Karzai is also a native Afghan, but is not representative of the common Afghan, & doesn't understand the average Afghan mindset. The events on the ground speak for themselves.

The Taliban have spread tremendously in the Northern & Western parts of Afghanistan, which have been considered to be "Taliban-free" regions for the most part, considering the non-Pashtun influence in the North.

You are so much delusional that at times I ignore your posts! Northern, Central and Western Afghanistan is clear of Taliban; during 2010-2011 a Taliban surge was seen in Kunduz (northern) but operations started against Taliban in the north and most of them were killed and the people of north were witness that helicopters brought the Taliban in the north at nights and it's still a mystery who they were but there is no point of Taliban recruitment in the north; I was in Kunduz last month it was as calm as Kabul and inshAllah I will have a visit of Mazar-e-Sharif, Faryab, Samangan in two weeks.

 

[BATMAN]

I was talking about the Al-Qaeed and OBL sanctioning attacks on Pakistan and Pakistanis and that the Taliban were not only entertaining but, as it appeared, putting their weight behind Al-Qaeeda !

If you read al-CIAda than you understand the background of threats and attacks on Pakistan.

now thats sad man RIP to them

I have noticed most of the atatcks takes place only in northern province, where Afghanis are more loyal to Indians than their mothers.

 

[Armstrong]

Yeah you are right, they will turn against Pakistani people; IMO the best option would be indirectly crippling these bastards and at a very first stage both sides should leave being selective on Taliban by not dividing them into two groups good and bad trust me both Taliban are bad! secondly Pakistan can cut Taliban's support in madrassas where they get funds and does recruitment; thirdly Pakistan should construct factories and other stuff to make the local people of FATA and KP busy with jobs; fourthly Pakistan can very seriously hunt down the leadership of Taliban and Al-Qaeda which indeed has given Pakistan the darkest stain in his history!

On our part we should kick out any element who stays in Afghanistan and works against Pakistan (even if USA is interfering she should be advised not to or else she should have the same faith), a trilateral committee should be made between Afghanistan - Pakistan - India; the committee should be responsible for discussing and solving decades problems between three nations and should vow for the development of each other and also make sure Pakistan that India consulates aren't working against Pakistan; Pakistan and Afghanistan's military leadership should get closer ties and have drills/trainings on regular basis; we are already in war so ANSF should intensify their assault against Pakistan Taliban who may rest in Nuristan/Kunar.

If things above comes to reality we would have no longer enmity, no hate, no refugees in Pakistan, no blasts, NO WOT!! all these objectives can be achieve till 2020 after that both countries should start negotiation on Durand line with clean hearts.

It will be nice if you tell me your version of moving forward?

Honestly I have no idea ! But I do think that approaching this problem solely by talking about 'religious extremism' i.e from an ideological perspective would very ill-advised so I think a 3 pronged approach involving, like you rightly pointed out, an 'economic', 'social' and 'military' dimension, should be pursued ! If I'm not mistaken FATA and Balochistan are some of the most impoverished areas of Pakistan and poverty and militancy does seem to have a strong correlation with each other. I think giving the vast majority of the People from those areas something to live and aspire for would discourage the kind of 'fatalism' that causes a teenager to go join the Taliban and blow himself up in the middle of a bazzar or around a military check-post ! Perhaps a good way to go would be to aggressively pursue micro-financing to encourage the establishment of 'cottage industries' throughout these troubled areas in addition to exploiting the god-given potential of these areas in terms of mining, oil drilling, etc. and to provide employment in the form of Government driven infrastructure developments.

The 'social' dimension that we must actively pursue is to educate and influence the People as such that 'extremism' of any (or at least of most) kinds become 'socially unacceptable' to the People. I remember reading somewhere that in Malaysia there was this person who had engaged in terrorism and when they brought his body to the his village, the villagers refused to allow his burial on the grounds that he had shamed them with his heinous act. I'm sure this wouldn't be easy but surely with a concentrated effort involving moderate clerics, tribal elders and by influencing women and in particular 'mothers', we'd be able to achieve some of this.

The 'military' dimension of it could involve going after those, as a last resort, who continue engaging in mischief in the land and in the process we try to enlist the help of the locals.

All three of these have been, to the best of my knowledge, practiced by the Pakistan Army but of course we haven't nearly achieved them to a level that we'd hope for and thats due to a severe shortage of funds and for the reasons I mentioned before; we believe that opening a front against the Afghan Taliban is going to make life hell for us in Pakistan in terms of the backlash that the pockets of public support the Taliban might enjoy amongst the civilians and also in terms of how strikingly effective they can be in their guerrilla warfare !

As for co-operation between our two countries : I'd welcome that very much because this menace of 'Talibanization' or any remnants of 'Al-Qaeeda' or any other 'Extremist outfit' will be a massive obstacle in bringing peace and stability to the region so that we can concentrate, undisturbed, on the things that countries are founded for : social welfare and progress ! Though I'm deeply skeptical of how Islamabad (or rather Rawalpindi) perceives Kabul and vice-versa and I do fear that we'd both end up pulling in different directions despite our goals being unsurprisingly similar with the Taliban, their sympathizers and other extremist off-shoots making good use of our stupidity to regroup and reinvigorate themselves.

On India : I know they've done good things for Afghanistan, at any rate their diplomats have been wiser...much wiser then us, but an Indian influenced Kabul however within the prerogative of Kabul might be....is going to be pretty much unacceptable to Islamabad (or again perhaps GHQ in Rawalpindi) and so I foresee it as another significant stumbling block between bridging the trust deficit between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

P.S I do hope that we reconcile and utilize our energies to fight our common enemy - Extremism, but in practice, I'm afraid, that we're far from it !

 

[53fd]

You are so much delusional that at times I ignore your posts! Northern, Central and Western Afghanistan is clear of Taliban; during 2010-2011 a Taliban surge was seen in Kunduz (northern) but operations started against Taliban in the north and most of them were killed and the people of north were witness that helicopters brought the Taliban in the north at nights and it's still a mystery who they were but there is no point of Taliban recruitment in the north; I was in Kunduz last month it was as calm as Kabul and inshAllah I will have a visit of Mazar-e-Sharif, Faryab, Samangan in two weeks.

Kunar & Nooristan are still Al-Qaeda Central (North East Afghanistan). Check out these links as well:

Taliban spreading like wildfire in 'secure' north Afghanistan

BBC News - Ominous signs for Afghanistan's north

The Rise of Taliban-IMU Nexus in Northern Afghanistan | The Daily Outlook Afghanistan

Taliban foothold grows in Afghan north: governor | Reuters

These links are less than a year old, a few months. I guess I'm delusional? Oh waittt....

The Taliban have launched numerous attacks in Western Afghanistan, Northern Afghanistan; in places that have been traditionally free of their presence.

 

[53fd]

Also check this out:

Taliban Establishing North Afghanistan Bases to Fight Beyond 2014: Dostum

 

[Banu Umayyah]

VIVA Taliban!

 

[Armstrong]

@ Banu Umayyah : You've got to be kidding me ? Khair...any plans of giving them Saudi citizenship ? I'm sure they'd make good mercenaries.

 

[jbond197]

May the departed soul rest in peace!!

 

[53fd]

Sometimes, it is best not to stir the hornet's nest at the behest of the wishes of "departing foreigners", & with the dramatic decrease of violence in Pakistan, Pakistan seems to have learned its lesson. Afghanistan hasn't.

 

[Haseebullah]

May the lost souls rest in peace.