Egyptian negotiations during the PAS2019 exhibition to contract JF17 fighter jets with the transfer

[Maxpane]

How about RAW? don't try to outsmart yourself..


Saudi Arabia..for sure

are you certain sir

 

[ARMalik]

How about RAW? don't try to outsmart yourself..

Typical diversion and side stepping tactics. What do you want RAW to do, Skype you their contact details?

Anyway, I didn't mean to embarrass you. I have a very valid concern that ToT to Egypt will compromise the national security of Pakistan. I am not against exporting JF-17s to Egypt, in fact, it would be very good outcome. However, I am against ToT to Egypt. When Egypt buys from France, US and others, they are NOT given ToT. Hence there is no reason why they should given JF-17 ToT.

 

[The SC]

are you certain sir

Yes..heard an official promise a few years back to buy a substantial number of the JF-17.. now most likely it will be the Block III..

Typical diversion and side stepping tactics. What do you want RAW to do, Skype you their contact details?

Anyway, I didn't mean to embarrass you. I have a very valid concern that ToT to Egypt will compromise the national security of Pakistan. I am not against exporting JF-17s to Egypt, in fact, it would be very good outcome. However, I am against ToT to Egypt. When Egypt buys from France, US and others, they are NOT given ToT. Hence there is no reason why they should given JF-17 ToT.

Actually your problem is Chinese TOT to Egypt, because I just showed you that your reasoning about Mossad is flawed by comparing the possibility with Raw..You can try to hide your feelings but they are clearly exposed .. so go eat some Kangaroo or do something else to sooth your pain..

 

[Maxpane]

Yes..heard an official promise a few years back to buy a substantial number of the JF-17.. now most likely it will be the Block III..

thanks for your reply sir

 

[Wilhelm II]

Congratulations for Pakistani brothers but I'm surprised

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

In the end it is China's decision. Even if some software is Pakistani I'm sure China has the capability to produce the JF-17 without Pakistan.

Nope, Pakistan owns the majority share and China cant ark Pakistan

 

[Hell NO]

Egypt is looking for a replacement to the k8e advanced trainer a replacement not just in the airforce but also the production whither or not JF-17 is capable of playing that role I am not sure but it's cheap enough and pack a punch giving the American restriction on armament.

 

[Mithridates]

Egypt is looking for a replacement to the k8e advanced trainer a replacement not just in the airforce but also the production whither or not JF-17 is capable of playing that role I am not sure but it's cheap enough and pack a punch giving the American restriction on armament.

it does not suit trainer role, maybe a replacement for mirage 5??

 

[Amun]

I’m still not sure about the capabilities of such a fighter....still the engine is weak and it’s durability is questionable...... I hope the the 3rd generation has much advanced capabilities as we need not less than 100 fighters that will be a backbone of EAF so the deal must include TOT and some advanced avionics and EM must be produced domestically or even with cooperation with European companies ..... after all we are facing Israel not India ...... so our standards must me higher.

 

[sami_1]

FC-1 /JF-1 again

Egypt has more than one option to buy fighter jets to replace the old fighters, including the MiG-35, which is not high price , and Russian are also offering local production in the same style as the SU-30MKI .

Egypt has already bought 50 MiG-35s and the Russians have offered the production of MiG-35 to India and even Bangladesh. Egypt's production of MIG-35 domestically is doubling Egypt's requests to buy them instead of even a plane such as Rafal

Historically, India bought 50 SU-30MKI planes at a price of 2 billion dollars, followed by 140 aircraft at 3500 million dollars. The price dropped to 25 million dollars in domestic production


In comparison, it is very difficult for a FC-1 /JF-17 Chinese plane to have a location and to see clear facts
The plane was previously rejected by Egyptian pilots and the results were not valid as a fighter for EAF.

JF-17 life 3500-4000 flight hour F-16 life is 12,000 flight hours. F-15 16,000 hours flight hours

FC-1 Low-life low quality
compares to a simple example when Egypt got the Chinese K-8 training plane The Chinese and Pakistani versions of the aircraft were 8000 flying hours while the Egyptian aircraft was 14000 flying hours and also the Egyptian plane. with an American engine,

So what is the benefit of Egypt's negotiation on the production of the F-1 plane and its acquisition of real interest?
we but Russian is in a position of competition such as the previous deal that China lost to the MiG-29 for years


The danger of Egypt getting the Chinese FC-1/JF-17

The plane Age is 20-25 years old and Egypt's fleet of F-16 will start out of service between 2030-2040 with the number of 211 aircraft currently in the case of the purchase of Egypt aircraft FC1
In 2040, Egypt will need to replace 350 aircraft at one time, a collapse of 60% of the Egyptian Air Force Fleet , then allow Egypt to produce a plane with a longer operational life Like MIG-35

The most important point is the fourth generation aircraft, such as the FC-1 Radar, with its weakest AESA in the world EW capabilities, a weak Airframe that have no chance against fifth-generation fighter jets, of course, and even the difficulty of responding to aircraft such as F-15I & F-16I

The Real chance for the FC-1 is simply that China and Pakistan are trying to promote it to Egypt as an alternative to the training planes. ALPHA JET AND L-39/59

The plane FC-1B/JF-17B was working to reduce the cost of flight hour and the development of the engine to reduce fuel consumption may become a good advanced training aircraft in this case, which Pakistan tried to promote the former Qatar ALPHA JET

Some Pakistanis fancy that if Egypt bought this FC-1/JF-17 , it would be in return to improve the Egyptian-Turkish relationship, and this is unacceptable. Egypt has its role in the Middle East, expelling Turkey from the Middle East, and whoever wants the Turks, he and the Turks will go to Hell.

Egypt has regional enemies Israeli Turks, Iranians and Ethiopians and therefore Egypt's role is to strengthen its air force to confront any threats in the Middle East

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

@ARMalik is very correct Israel has Mizrahi jews agents who can easily blend in/infiltrate Arab nations in its immediate neighborhood or arab/muslim countries that still have some Jewish population.
Kinda like how NDS uses Afghan diaspora in Pakistan.

Regarding JFT I have a question. Where does the money fro. Jf17 sales go???
Does go PAC/PAF or MoD or someother Fed govt dept???

 

[The SC]

The Egyptian Air Force is currently retiring large numbers of its second and third generation fighters; F-7, MiG-21, the Mirage-5, and the worn out F-16s from a fleet of more than 200 fighter jets, plus the not upgraded 15 Mirage-2000 fighter jets.

Certainly, the acquisition of new French and Russian fighter planes such as Rafale and Mig-35 in limited numbers will not suffice to bridge that large gap in the number of fighters assigned to the disengagement. The Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter, and given the situation of the Egyptian economy, which is still in the beginning of the stages of improvement and recovery, the Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter to achieve quantity and quality that it has acquired in the modern French and Russian fighter jets, which can not be purchased in large numbers because of the expensive cost factor This trend is reinforced by the fact that the third and most modern JF-17 fighter Block cost $ 30 million against more than $ 50 million for the Russian MIG 35 and more than $ 100 million for the French RAFALE.

The Egyptian Air Force has expressed interest in acquiring the JF-17 fighter since it appeared years ago. However, the unstable political situation, after January 25, 2011, and the unavailability of funding necessitated to stop the talks momentarily. The Egyptian Air Force expressed many reservations regarding the technical specifications of Block I and Block II of the Chinese fighter - made by Pakistan with a license - and was hoping for a more sophisticated version of its predecessors.

In the view of the Chinese side, the upcoming JF-17 Block-3 has greatly improved. It has received qualitative modifications including the AESA active radar matrix, increased internal load of fuel, weapon load, increased wing area and tail set, and integrated navigation system. A more sophisticated electronic warfare package and a new armament package that will include the medium-range PL-15E, which can have a range of up to 200 km and pose a huge threat to AWACS.

So in light of what has been said: Given the capabilities of the Chinese fighter and its presence in the category of Light Combat Aircraft LCA and not medium and heavy fighters such as F-16 and Su-35. And given the accurate information in the news board about the current situation of the Egyptian Air Force, we can say that the possibility of acquiring the fierce dragon FC-1 or JF 17 Thunder as called by Pakistan, with production and local assembly is very logical, for the following reasons:

- To replace huge numbers of Egyptian Air Force fighters due to retire with more than 200 fighters, and in the presence of a fleet of F-16 fighter jets unlikely to be upgraded to a level beyond the Block 52 and will not reach the standard Viper because of the decision of the United States since 2015 not to provide Egypt with a qualitative weapon, more directed weapon against terrorism and countering atypical threats, limiting the Egyptian F-16's capabilities compared to those operating in the service of other air weapons, especially the Israeli Air Force.

- In view of the current acquisitions of the EAF, RAFALE (24 fighter jets expected to increase to 36-48 fighters), the MIG-35 (52 fighters) and the SU-35 (expected to be 29 fighters), these numbers are good in terms of quality given the technical development of the above-mentioned models and their allocation to specific tasks, but would not be sufficient to quantify the gap due to the enormous gap referred to earlier.

- Hence, The JF-17 won't be assessed in terms of performance and technical specifications as a first priority, as in the case of medium and heavy fighters. The evaluation will be more focused on the economic and practical aspects because it provides all the conditions mentioned as in the low cost of $ 30 million and thus the possibility of numerical density/quantity..

- The Thunder / Fierce Dragon will serve as a work horse for the Egyptian Air Force to carry out tasks that do not require the use of more expensive types of other fighters that will carry out the main and most dangerous combat tasks, as well as intensifying pilots' training to increase the number of flying hours. Flight hours will not be less than 1,000 hours, for example, as soon as possible and as low cost as possible, and thus pilots become eligible to work on other major air force fighters.

- It is certain that the Thunder will bring with it a complete Chinese armament with the lowest possible political restraints compared to other countries. The Chinese ammunition and missiles themselves are the least expensive in the world (as well as the Pakistani munitions themselves based on the transfer of technical knowledge from China as "Ra'ad") . And the Chinese combat platforms are ready to integrate the Russian armament very easily, which is also characterized by the cost of less than the western counterpart, and contribute to a greater variety of ammunition and missiles, which is not available in this form in the Western platforms..

- The JF-17 will represent the last line of defense of the state in the view of large numbers with the intensive use of various types of munitions at a very economical cost, while the high accuracy and tolerance capabilities of the Western missiles will be compensated by the greater numerical intensity of the Chinese missiles.

- In the event of agreement on co-production, the thunder could be a launch pad for Egypt in the production of a fighter aircraft or even the production of precision parts and components in the aviation industry, as well as the manufacture of smart munitions and missiles, and opens up new horizons in complex military industries.

Thus, the Egyptian Air Force will achieve the required balance in the quantity and quality of high-low-mix with the possession of an air fleet of combat aircraft, which enable it to carry out all the tasks required, and a large variety of weapons systems of different nationalities, which constitute a huge burden on the opponents, which will have to prepare and equip to deal with different types of munitions, unlike if they were from a source or two at a maximum, especially if the source is the US...

 

[sparten]

Yes. AF world over are not stupid. Unlike the writers and analysts (such as whoever wrote the above dreck).
They will get Thunders for training? Seriously?
Whats happened in Feb 27th. People saw the Thunder execute a plan which was drawn up on the fly and chase away MKIs. And penetrated some of the most heavily defended airspace on the planet.
Thats gotten attention.

Its a reasonably priced fighter which can be given some seriously lethal teeth.

 

[Wilhelm II]

The Egyptian Air Force is currently retiring large numbers of its second and third generation fighters; F-7, MiG-21, the Mirage-5, and the worn out F-16s from a fleet of more than 200 fighter jets, plus the not upgraded 15 Mirage-2000 fighter jets.

Certainly, the acquisition of new French and Russian fighter planes such as Rafale and Mig-35 in limited numbers will not suffice to bridge that large gap in the number of fighters assigned to the disengagement. The Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter, and given the situation of the Egyptian economy, which is still in the beginning of the stages of improvement and recovery, the Egyptian Air Force is looking for a low-cost fighter to achieve quantity and quality that it has acquired in the modern French and Russian fighter jets, which can not be purchased in large numbers because of the expensive cost factor This trend is reinforced by the fact that the third and most modern JF-17 fighter Block cost $ 30 million against more than $ 50 million for the Russian MIG 35 and more than $ 100 million for the French RAFALE.

The Egyptian Air Force has expressed interest in acquiring the JF-17 fighter since it appeared to light years ago. However, the unstable political situation, after January 25, 2011, and the unavailability of funding necessitated to stop the talks momentarily. The Egyptian Air Force expressed many reservations regarding the technical specifications of Block I and Block II of the Chinese fighter - made by Pakistan with a license - and was hoping for a more sophisticated version of its predecessors.

In the view of the Chinese side, the upcoming JF-17 Block-3 has greatly improved. It has received qualitative modifications including the AESA active radar matrix, increased internal load of fuel, weapon load, increased wing area and tail set, and integrated navigation system. A more sophisticated electronic warfare package and a new armament package that will include the medium-range PL-15E, which can have a range of up to 200 km and pose a huge threat to AWACS.

So in light of what has been said: Given the capabilities of the Chinese fighter and its presence in the category of Light Combat Aircraft LCA and not medium and heavy fighters such as F-16 and Su-35. And given the accurate information in the news board about the current situation of the Egyptian Air Force, we can say that the possibility of acquiring the fierce dragon FC-1 or JF 17 Thunder as called by Pakistan, with production and local assembly is very logical, for the following reasons:

- To replace huge numbers of Egyptian Air Force fighters due to retire with more than 200 fighters, and in the presence of a fleet of F-16 fighter jets unlikely to be upgraded to a level beyond the Block 52 and will not reach the standard Viper because of the decision of the United States since 2015 not to provide Egypt with a qualitative weapon, more directed weapon against terrorism and countering atypical threats, limiting the Egyptian F-16's capabilities compared to those operating in the service of other air weapons, especially the Israeli Air Force.

- In view of the current acquisitions of the EAF (24 fighter jets expected to increase to 36-48 fighters), the MIG-35 (52 fighters) and the S-35 (expected to be 29 fighters), these numbers are good in terms of quality given the technical development of the above-mentioned models and their allocation to specific tasks, but would not be sufficient to quantify the gap due to the enormous gap referred to earlier.

- Hence, The JF-17 won't be assessed in terms of performance and technical specifications as a first priority, as in the case of medium and heavy fighters. The evaluation will be more focused on the economic and practical aspects because it provides all the conditions mentioned as in the low cost of $ 30 million and thus the possibility of numerical density/quantity..

- The Thunder / Fierce Dragon will serve as a work horse for the Egyptian Air Force to carry out tasks that do not require the use of more expensive types of other fighters that will carry out the main and most dangerous combat tasks, as well as intensifying pilots' training to increase the number of flying hours. Flight hours will not be less than 1,000 hours, for example, as soon as possible and as low cost as possible, and thus pilots become eligible to work on other major air force fighters.

- It is certain that the Thunder will bring with it a complete Chinese armament with the lowest possible political restraints compared to other countries. The Chinese ammunition and missiles themselves are the least expensive in the world (as well as the Pakistani munitions themselves based on the transfer of technical knowledge from China as "Ra'ad") . And the Chinese combat platforms are ready to integrate the Russian armament very easily, which is also characterized by the cost of less than the western counterpart, and contribute to a greater variety of ammunition and missiles, which is not available in this form in the Western platforms..

- The JF-17 will represent the last line of defense of the state in the view of large numbers with the intensive use of various types of munitions at a very economical cost, while the high accuracy and tolerance capabilities of the Western missiles will be compensated by the greater numerical intensity of the Chinese missiles.

- In the event of agreement on co-production, the thunder could be a launch pad for Egypt in the production of a fighter aircraft or even the production of precision parts and components in the aviation industry, as well as the manufacture of smart munitions and missiles, and opens up new horizons in complex military industries.

Thus, the Egyptian Air Force will achieve the required balance in the quantity and quality of high-low-mix with the possession of an air fleet of combat aircraft, which enable it to carry out all the tasks required, and a large variety of weapons systems of different nationalities, which constitute a huge burden on the opponents, which will have to prepare and equip to deal with different types of munitions, unlike if they were from a source or two at a maximum, especially if the source is the US...

What are those huge things under jf17 wings?!

 

[The SC]

What are those huge things under jf17 wings?!

Smart bombs..cruise missiles..

Yes. AF world over are not stupid. Unlike the writers and analysts (such as whoever wrote the above dreck).
They will get Thunders for training? Seriously?
Whats happened in Feb 27th. People saw the Thunder execute a plan which was drawn up on the fly and chase away MKIs. And penetrated some of the most heavily defended airspace on the planet.
Thats gotten attention.

Its a reasonably priced fighter which can be given some seriously lethal teeth.

Yes "training" as an advanced training to get the most hours for pilots before transitioning to heavier platforms.. like the pilots training on the Rafale, the F-16s and the Mig-35..they can get more flight hours on the JF-17 for a lesser price than starting training on these platforms..you got the idea now..it is a question of cost..But as said above..the role is not limited to training..the main role is air defence..It is more cost effective to have the JF-17 to do the job of K-8E and another more advanced trainer..and at the same time be the backbone of the air force..