Egyptian Armed Forces

[Ghostkiller]

Astra missile started as an elongated matra super 530D so the missile used western chip standard from the start.
However IAF wasn't satisfied with this arrangement (as the missile performance wasn't optimal) so it asked for a clean sheet design so the same team made a completely new missile on the same chip standards. (And that's why Astra can be easily integrated into French aircrafts).

SAAW devlopment started in 2013 and by that time India su30mki were fitted with Indian mission computer (which used western chips), and that's why saaw can be integrated to French aircrafts as both use same chip standards.
Integration of weapons onto a different aircraft depends on 3 main things
1. Radars
2. Mission Computer
3. Source Code (weapons using the same standard of chips can be easily mounted on the aircraft but tinkering the source code)
Yes India might be able to help you in integration of missiles of different origins, we are quite experienced at it

Thank you. You believe that Egypt will get the HAL Tejas MK1A ?

 

[Philip the Arab]

@Ghostkiller think Halcon will show BVR at idex so maybe integration on FA-50 could be an interim solution until other ones can be integrated especially considering UAE-Korea ties.

 

[sami_1]

Egypt interest

AKASH-NG medium-range air defense system
There may also be competition for it with an updated version of the Chinese system
SD-10 This is for a program to produce a local medium-range air defense system
Egypt, which contracted on Uri systems such as URSST-SLM/SLX/SLS, is natural for Egypt to go towards manufacturing local, national systems in cooperation with other countries that incorporate the advantages of European systems, but at a lower cost. Here is the role of countries such as India and China in supporting these production programs at a relatively acceptable cost and without restrictions on Quantitative production, so we found Egypt opening discussions with several countries to meet their needs of complementary sub-systems.

SAAW anti-runway ammunition for airfields
Especially for the second generation of a wider range, as well as the ability to hit moving targets, along with its lower cost, and it also competes with similar Chinese ammunition.

Pralay tactical missile
It is believed that the matter is the announcement of this missile, but the matter is related to cooperation in ballistic missile systems. China in some cases requires that Chinese products be purchased completely from them before transferring technologies in other systems. Therefore, cooperation with other countries such as India makes, for example, access to what it lacks in technology. Which is not exposed to China from another source

More than one Indian website says that Egypt chose the South Korean T-50 as a LIFT plane, although no real contracts or official announcement of victory were signed.
Some promote historical deals such as the Alphajet and the Chinese planes F6, F-7, and the production of the three planes together approached about 300 planes in the eighties (120 + 120 + 45).

But what are the most important Egyptian requirements that we think should be taken care of?
Weapon management software industry source code
Manufacture of printed electronic circuits for various civil and military applications
At the level of the civil sector, perhaps the production lines of some civil industries in which India excels

Disadvantages of cooperation with India The Egyptian regime admires the Indian system very much and considers it appropriate for the system of a rich government and a poor people. When it began to apply it in Egypt, it led to disasters. Controlling the deposits of Egyptian individuals in banks and restricting the process of deposits and withdrawals with low rates made everyone withdraw money from Egyptian banks due to lack of confidence in the system. The system applied in India failed miserably in Egypt And the currency of linking the data systems of the Egyptians and their business to know the wealth of the Egyptians and their income in order to obtain the largest amount of fees and taxes, which led to the flight of businessmen from Egypt. What is valid in India is not suitable in Egypt.

 

[Faceless]

Thank you. You believe that Egypt will get the HAL Tejas MK1A ?

I Can just hope, India is trying it's best, we invited your president on our republic day with the sole intention of increasing indo Egyptian defence ties.
If I were to compare Tejas mk1a to fa50, Tejas has far less imported content (only 25% LRU's are of foreign origin) and we are working on reducing that percentage. (Our uttam radar is in advance stages of testing).
(Objectively speaking Tejas is more sanction proof than fa50 and this phenomenon will only increase with time, Eg. We have an active jet engine program while Koreans don't)

If Egypt buys fa50 then then the only thing Egypt can buy from them in the future would be Kai KF21 boramae or LAH where as if Egypt buys from India then there is a lot of things Indian Military Industrial Complex can offer from SAM's like QRSAM, VLSRSAM, Akash Ng to missiles like brahmos and pralay to Helicopters like Dhruv, Rudra, LCH, LUH to future fighter jets like AMCA and TEDBF.
If we look at the foreign policy of both the countries, India is more likely to defy western sanctions to support Egypt than Korea (Indian purchase of Russian oil is a testament to this).
An Indian ToT and local manufacturing will source more local items than a Korean ToT because of the High amount of imported subsystems in FA50.
Since India is eager to increase it's arms sales we are more likely to be flexible in things like price and payment settlement. (we might even offer a barter system for payment settlement, which the Koreans will never do).

However I am not getting my hopes very high because Koreans are into this game of international arms sale and support for far longer and have support of juggernauts like Lockheed Martin and Boeing, and not to forget the bad press regarding the Tejas
In my opinion the competition is very tough

 

[Ghostkiller]

If Egypt buys fa50 then then the only thing Egypt can buy from them in the future would be Kai KF21 boramae where as if Egypt buys from India then there is a lot of things Indian Military Industrial Complex can offer from SAM's like QRSAM, VLSRSAM, Akash Ng to missiles like brahmos and pralay to future fighter jets like AMCA and TEDBF.

Sure but, if we got the FA-50, we can still other systems from India like missiles and even HAL Dhruv etc.. Don't forget that we have the Rafales and you have the permission to sell Astra SAAW and even BrahMos missiles to other countries who have the Rafales. So let's we can have a win-win situation and some beneficial deals that can satisfy both parties.

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

I Can just hope, India is trying it's best, we invited your president on our republic day with the sole intention of increasing indo Egyptian defence ties.
If I were to compare Tejas mk1a to fa50, Tejas has far less imported content (only 25% LRU's are of foreign origin) and we are working on reducing that percentage. (Our uttam radar is in advance stages of testing).
(Objectively speaking Tejas is more sanction proof than fa50 and this phenomenon will only increase with time, Eg. We have an active jet engine program while Koreans don't)

If Egypt buys fa50 then then the only thing Egypt can buy from them in the future would be Kai KF21 boramae where as if Egypt buys from India then there is a lot of things Indian Military Industrial Complex can offer from SAM's like QRSAM, VLSRSAM, Akash Ng to missiles like brahmos and pralay to future fighter jets like AMCA and TEDBF.
If we look at the foreign policy of both the countries, India is more likely to defy western sanctions to support Egypt than Korea (Indian purchase of Russian oil is a testament to this).
An Indian ToT and local manufacturing will source more local items than a Korean ToT because of the High amount of imported subsystems in FA50.
Since India is eager to increase it's arms sales we are more likely to be flexible in things like price and payment settlement. (we might even offer a barter system for payment settlement, which the Koreans will never do).

However I am not getting my hopes very high because Koreans are into this game of international arms sale and support for far longer and have support of juggernauts like Lockheed Martin and Boeing, and not to forget the bad press regarding the Tejas
In my opinion the competition is very tough

The name of the game right now is mixing between European, Korean and Indian tech, russia cant supply aesa radars because of sanctions and the current war. I personally hate to see a massive nation like India ( no disrespect) lag behind other countries in military tech. They have soooo much potential. Really hope they can bring the umtaas aesa radar into reality, and if they perfect the Tejas, they can easily produce mk1b and even c models as they go through time. I will admit the amca project is ambitious and will take serious time until prototypes can be manufactured and tested.

 

[Faceless]

The name of the game right now is mixing between European, Korean and Indian tech, russia cant supply aesa radars because of sanctions and the current war. I personally hate to see a massive nation like India ( no disrespect) lag behind other countries in military tech. They have soooo much potential. Really hope they can bring the umtaas aesa radar into reality, and if they perfect the Tejas, they can easily produce mk1b and even c models as they go through time. I will admit the amca project is ambitious and will take serious time until prototypes can be manufactured and tested.

No offence taken, you are correct in your assessment that we lag behind in military tech, it was due to multiple reasons
1. Socialism that left India with very few private industries (and even those were very heavily controlled). Which we only fixed after the 1991 economic liberalisation
2. Corruption (both ministers and army generals got a lot of bribe money from buying foreign items)
3. Lack of communication between the military and local industries
4. Lack of any and all private industries in the defence sector
5. Lazy attitude of government owned defence sector units like DRDO, HAL etc.
6. Army's lack of support for indigenous items, they always wanted an already matured and tested platform instead of an evolving one. (This was one of the reasons as to why Tejas was inducted so late into the Indian airforce).
Only After the current government's push for indigenization were most these problems were solved.

I don't think AMCA is over ambitious as almost (except engine) all the necessary items needed for a 5th gen aircraft are either fully functional, or waiting to be integrated or in advanced stages of testing or at worst are in the early stages of testing (not designing)
For Example
1. Radar - hardware side of things are totally done and software side of things are being polished.
2. Airframe - we already has a lot of experience with making aircrafts with composite materials (during the Tejas program)
3. Armaments - nearly All the armaments that will go on amca (like Astra mk1, SAAW, etc) are either in production or advanced stages of testing
4. RAM Coating - Advanced Stages of Testing, (DRDO was already working on this during its Ghatak ucav program) (this RAM coating is very secretive and thus very little news gets out on this item)
5. EW Suite - We have already completed work on DARE Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) suite which is waiting integration on su30 mki during its super Sukhoi upgrade.
6. Sensors - IRST sensors for Tejas mk2 and su30mki are waiting to be integrated, an EOTS system for AMCA is in early prototyping phase
7. Engine - a GE F414 will be used as an interim solution where as in the meantime talks and going on for a engine deal (with full IPR Rights) between India and France.
8. Sensor Fusion - I have no Idea what progress is happening in this field.
9. Digital Fly By Wire system of the aircraft was always a strong point of Tejas and I don't have any doubt we will carry on this legacy onto AMCA as well.

Anyways as you can see almost all the required components of the AMCA are nearly ready I don't think it's over ambitious

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

No offence taken, you are correct in your assessment that we lag behind in military tech, it was due to multiple reasons
1. Socialism that left India with very few private industries (and even those were very heavily controlled). Which we only fixed after the 1991 economic liberalisation
2. Corruption (both ministers and army generals got a lot of bribe money from buying foreign items)
3. Lack of communication between the military and local industries
4. Lack of any and all private industries in the defence sector
5. Lazy attitude of government owned defence sector units like DRDO, HAL etc.
6. Army's lack of support for indigenous items, they always wanted an already matured and tested platform instead of an evolving one. (This was one of the reasons as to why Tejas was inducted so late into the Indian airforce).
Only After the current government's push for indigenization most these problems were solved.

I don't think AMCA is over ambitious as almost (except engine) all the necessary items needed for a 5th gen aircraft are either fully functional, or waiting to be integrated or in advanced stages of testing or at worst are in the early stages of testing (not designing)
For Example
1. Radar - hardware side of things are totally done and software side of things are being polished.
2. Airframe - we already has a lot of experience with making aircrafts with composite materials (during the Tejas program)
3. Armaments - nearly All the armaments that will go on amca (like Astra mk1, SAAW, etc) are either in production or advanced stages of testing
4. RAM Coating - Advanced Stages of Testing, (DRDO was already working on this during its Ghatak ucav program) (this RAM coating is very secretive and thus very little news gets out on this item)
5. EW Suite - We have already completed work on DARE Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) suite which is waiting integration on su30 mki during its super Sukhoi upgrade.
6. Sensors - IRST sensors for Tejas mk2 and su30mki are waiting to be integrated, an EOTS system for AMCA is in early prototyping phase
7. Engine - a GE F414 will be used as an interim solution where as in the meantime talks and going on for a engine deal (with full IPR Rights) between India and France.
8. Sensor Fusion - I have no Idea what progress is happening in this field.
9. Digital Fly By Wire system of the aircraft was always a strong point of Tejas and I don't have any doubt we will carry on this legacy onto AMCA as well.

Anyways as you can see almost all the required components of the AMCA are nearly ready I don't think it's over ambitious

It costs alot to put all of that together and then eventually mass produce it, or even have them in limited production. Russias 5th gen fighters are only testables as of right now. Ram coatings can disintegrate at top speeds if im not mistaken, thus needing more maintenance. Americas f35 is way too expensive to have them replace all the f15s and f16s in service. As far as the other aspects of the aircraft goes, it sounds to be going smoothly in testing. Wish we had tot for rafale engines like India getting

 

[sami_1]

One of the advantages of dealing with India, unlike dealing with South Korea, will be financial transactions in local currencies, which are matters under implementation now, and thus a trade exchange of 7.5 billion dollars, equivalent to 8% of the volume of Egyptian trade, and these solutions we have proposed since the beginning of 2022 that dealing with India, China and Russia be in local currencies. The matter is now under study also between Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, which reduces the volume of Egypt's needs of the US dollar by half and raises the value of the local currency.

 

[Ghostkiller]

View attachment 912581
One of the advantages of dealing with India, unlike dealing with South Korea, will be financial transactions in local currencies, which are matters under implementation now, and thus a trade exchange of 7.5 billion dollars, equivalent to 8% of the volume of Egyptian trade, and these solutions we have proposed since the beginning of 2022 that dealing with India, China and Russia be in local currencies. The matter is now under study also between Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, which reduces the volume of Egypt's needs of the US dollar by half and raises the value of the local currency.

Ok I am with you but the thing is that MK1A isn't even mass produced for IAF so first they must produce for themselves then the others and not matured enough. Second, if we can get those equipments then we can put them on the Fa-50.

 

[Faceless]

It costs alot to put all of that together and then eventually mass produce it, or even have them in limited production. Russias 5th gen fighters are only testables as of right now. Ram coatings can disintegrate at top speeds if im not mistaken, thus needing more maintenance. Americas f35 is way too expensive to have them replace all the f15s and f16s in service. As far as the other aspects of the aircraft goes, it sounds to be going smoothly in testing. Wish we had tot for rafale engines like India getting

I am not denying that integration of all these systems and mass production of the jet is the biggest hurdle, But compared to other nations (like Turks or Koreans) working on 5th gen aircrafts, India is in a better position than most of them, because we already have most of the subsystems ready.
Also Russia was unable to mass produce su57 mainly due to lack of funds not technical problems.
RAM coating are expensive to maintain for everyone so singling out America doesn't seem fair.

 

[MirageBlue]

You have any ideas about future Indo-Egyptian cooperations?

No I don't.

I do sincerely hope that Egypt takes a good long look at the Tejas Mk2 program. It offers a perfect 4.5 gen Mirage-2000/F-16 replacement at a cost that will be a lot more reasonable than expensive 4.5 gen fighters like the Rafale or 5th gen programs like the KF-21 that are twin engine fighters.

The Tejas Mk2 is very analogous to the Gripen E in terms of envisaged features and capabilities. Has there ever been any interest in the Gripen E from Egypt?

Ok I am with you but the thing is that MK1A isn't even mass produced for IAF so first they must produce for themselves then the others and not matured enough. Second, if we can get those equipments then we can put them on the Fa-50.

Currently there are 2 squadrons of Tejas Mk1 in IAF service since the order was capped at 40. But another order for 83 improved Tejas Mk1A was placed by the IAF, the deliveries of which will start by February 2024.

As of now, the Tejas Mk1A will use the Elta 2052 AESA for the first 40 odd units, afterwards switching to the indigenous Uttam AESA radar that has been flying on 2 Tejas Mk1A prototypes.

Problem with trying to just use equipment off the shelf is that it needs a lot of work to integrate and work properly with other avionics like the Mission Computer. For the FA-50 it makes more sense to just use the AESA that KAI will eventually provide based on the KF-21's AESA. It too is heavily derived off work done by Elta on the 2052 AESA.

 

[Ghostkiller]

The Tejas Mk2 is very analogous to the Gripen E in terms of envisaged features and capabilities. Has there ever been any interest in the Gripen E from Egypt?

No. Egypt and Sweden don't have loads of military cooperation.

 

[Ghostkiller]

No I don't.

I do sincerely hope that Egypt takes a good long look at the Tejas Mk2 program. It offers a perfect 4.5 gen Mirage-2000/F-16 replacement at a cost that will be a lot more reasonable than expensive 4.5 gen fighters like the Rafale or 5th gen programs like the KF-21 that are twin engine fighters.

The Tejas Mk2 is very analogous to the Gripen E in terms of envisaged features and capabilities. Has there ever been any interest in the Gripen E from Egypt?



Currently there are 2 squadrons of Tejas Mk1 in IAF service since the order was capped at 40. But another order for 83 improved Tejas Mk1A was placed by the IAF, the deliveries of which will start by February 2024.

As of now, the Tejas Mk1A will use the Elta 2052 AESA for the first 40 odd units, afterwards switching to the indigenous Uttam AESA radar that has been flying on 2 Tejas Mk1A prototypes.

Problem with trying to just use equipment off the shelf is that it needs a lot of work to integrate and work properly with other avionics like the Mission Computer. For the FA-50 it makes more sense to just use the AESA that KAI will eventually provide based on the KF-21's AESA. It too is heavily derived off work done by Elta on the 2052 AESA.

But if we got ToT for the Uttam radar (it is a big IF hahaha) then we can make our version put them on the FA-50 aircraft in case SK accepts.

 

[GiantPanda]

I am not denying that integration of all these systems and mass production of the jet is the biggest hurdle, But compared to other nations (like Turks or Koreans) working on 5th gen aircrafts, India is in a better position than most of them, because we already have most of the subsystems ready.
Also Russia was unable to mass produce su57 mainly due to lack of funds not technical problems.
RAM coating are expensive to maintain for everyone so singling out America doesn't seem fair.

KFX has already flown. TFX is being assembled as we speak. There is no AMCA, not even a prototype, to speak of.

And what subsystems? All major Indian systems are imported.

Indians should shut up. India is behind the Turks and way behind the Koreans at this point.