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These will provide protection to the 2 Mistrale.. Till they are equipped with their defensive and offensive weapons..and even after that..

Looking forward to seeing those super bad mofos in the EN and pulling up to the Navy dock in Escandariya. Those things are so intimidating with those towering radar masts compared to the French FREMM it's extraordinary.

While they're supposedly ready to go once they're completely decommissioned from La Regia Marina Militare and come and join Al Quwwat El Bahriat El Masriyya, by then we might just be fortunate enough to get one of the Mekos delivered at this rate LOL! But seriously, our Italian friends are taking their sweet time unless there's something complicating the deal which we were under the impression that those two elements were already agreed on no matter what happens with the other parts of the mega deal and that they should be on their way soon. At any rate, perhaps this Meko being build for the Egyptian Navy and at this rate because of the sectional construction they're doing seems to speed up the process and that they might just put one of these together and have it tested and ready for delivery by the time our Italianos friends are done cleaning up the Berghaminnis.

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EAF why didn’t wire MICAs to the Mirage 2000 since you didn’t receive AMRAAMs?
MICA need another radar than the one fitted on actuial M2000 (or only the IR model, in a low to medium range capacity (in fact limited by the range of the seeker)) and a data link between radar and miisile.
The actual radar, RDM if I remember well, can't designed a target to MICA.
 
Those things are so intimidating with those towering radar masts compared to the French FREMM it's extraordinary.
The Italian FREMM are a little bit more powerfull than the french ones : the radar is higher, and quitte effective (the french Herakles is also powerfull). More guns.
BUT (there is always a "but" ) the vessel is less stable (center of gravity higher).
 
Not integrated.
As the AMRAAM is not integrated on M2000.
Ik, my question is why didn’t they integrate it, like how Matra Magic II and sidewinders were integrated on the MiG-21.
MICA need another radar than the one fitted on actuial M2000 (or only the IR model, in a low to medium range capacity (in fact limited by the range of the seeker)) and a data link between radar and miisile.
The actual radar, RDM if I remember well, can't designed a target to MICA.
Why didn’t they upgrade the Mirages to the -9 standard? That drives me crazy and that’s why I believe the military ignored BVR and relied on Air Defenses in the first place.
 
Ik, my question is why didn’t they integrate it, like how Matra Magic II and sidewinders were integrated on the MiG-21.
It's far easier to integrate a short range missile : no need of a data link, you fire (this kind of) only after the seeker hooked the target.
A BVR missile is mainly fired seeker off, and need a data link and fresh news from the radar for mid course re alignment.
Add to that the multi target capacity. A old radar like RDM can't follow numerous targets.
 
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Why didn’t they upgrade the Mirages to the -9 standard? That drives me crazy and that’s why I believe the military ignored BVR and relied on Air Defenses in the first place.
The Egyptian Mirage 2000 are among the oldest. I think it's not cost effective to upgrade so deeply a old bird.
Better invest in brand new Rafale, far better than -9 M2000.
 
The Egyptian Mirage 2000 are among the oldest. I think it's not cost effective to upgrade so deeply a old bird.
Better invest in brand new Rafale, far better than -9 M2000.
Well, several parts of the airframe are replaced over time and Egypt manufactures Mirage 2000 parts, there are also Mirage 2000 veterans in the EAF I bet.
 
Well, several parts of the airframe are replaced over time and Egypt manufactures Mirage 2000 parts, there are also Mirage 2000 veterans in the EAF I bet.
Indeed. All can be replace in a jet, but when the frame became older, is the benefit of a deep upgrade enough?

and in the egyptian case, the M2000 fleet is very small.
 
Indeed. All can be replace in a jet, but when the frame became older, is the benefit of a deep upgrade enough?

and in the egyptian case, the M2000 fleet is very small.
Yep, would rather sell them then or ‘donate’ them to the LNA - paid by third parties. What do you know about the Rafale’s F4 standard? What’s going to be improved?
 
A Look at the F-4 Rafale Upgrade Program

By Pierre Tran - Paris

French Armed Forces minister Florence Parly announced Jan. 14 the award of a €1.9 billion ($2.2 billion) development contract to upgrade the Rafale fighter jet to an F4 standard, while evoking national sovereignty, operational capability and exports as key factors.

That budget was agreed after close negotiations between government and industry, a source close to the talks said.
“This is a guarantee of our sovereignty,” Parly said on a visit to the Dassault Aviation factory at Mérignac, next to Bordeaux, southwest France.
“This is a chance for our capabilities,” she added.
“It is also a necessary investment to ensure the Rafale’s competitiveness for exports in the coming decades and to safeguard the industrial sector for the fighter jet.”
Parly said she was proud to be the lead advocate for the Rafale in any prospective foreign deal, adding that the upgrade offered further argument in favor of the French fighter.
Dassault, MBDA, Safran and Thales are the four big companies working on the Rafale.

The main modernization features include a connectivity of data links with French and allied forces, greater detection and identification of threats, and fitting upgraded missiles.

A modernization to F4 was in response to the French Air Force’s “evolution of probable threat,” said Etienne Daum, manager for aeronautics, defense and security at think-tank CEIS, based here.
The F4 is important as a a step toward to the Future Combat Air System.

The F-4 upgrade is the first technology package which allows the French fighter to fly in a data network until the planned Next-Generation Fighter flies some time after 2035.

That fighter will be a key element in the FCAS, a European project for a system of systems, which will include a mix of piloted jets, unmanned armed drones and smart weapons.
A Rafale upgrade could be seen as a victory of pragmatism over a cultural stereotype of the French character which is said to favor philosophy.
The upgrades are due to be installed in two phases, with a first batch in 2023, followed by a second in 2025, the Armed Forces ministry said in a statement.
That incremental approach is intended to fit the features as soon as they are available, part of a new defense policy.

“The F4 standard is part of the ongoing process to continuously improve the Rafale in line with technological progress and operating experience feedback,” Dassault said in a statement.

The work will also allow more weapons to be fitted to aircraft, including Mica New Generation air-to-air missile and 1,000-kg AASM powered smart bomb.
Planned upgrades of the ASMP-A airborne nuclear-tipped missile and Scalp cruise weapon will also arm the F4.

France will order a further 30 Rafale in 2023, with delivery of the last 28 of the previous batch due by 2024, Parly said.
Dassault will be industrial architect, the company said.
“We will be responsible for implementing innovative connectivity solutions to optimize the effectiveness of our aircraft in networked combat (new satellite and intra-patrol links, communication server, software defined radio).”
There will be also be upgrades to the active electronically scanned array radar, front sector opto-electronic targeting system, and helmet-mounted display, the company said.
There will a new service contract and a prognosis and diagnostic aid system intended to deliver a predictive capability.
Maintenance will draw on the use of Big Data and artificial intelligence.
A new control unit for the M88 engine will be fitted.
The Spectra electronic warfare system and Talios targeting pod will be boosted, the ministry said.

The Direction Générale de l’Armement (DGA), Joint Chiefs of staff and the service wing — Direction de la maintenance aéronautique (DMAé) – worked together to draw up the F4 requirement, seen as essential to maintain French capability with the introduction in Europe of the F-35 joint strike fighter.

France signed a development contract with MBDA for the Mica NG, the company said Nov. 11, 2018.
The weapons is intended to have greater range and sensitivity in sensors,with lower service cost.
 
Yep, would rather sell them then or ‘donate’ them to the LNA - paid by third parties. What do you know about the Rafale’s F4 standard? What’s going to be improved?
Rafale: the F4 standard is revealed


In January 2019, when the first Rafale to the F3R standard arrived in the Air Force, the Minister of the Armed Forces took advantage of a visit to the Dassault Aviation plant in Mérignac to officially launch the development of a new standard. major, the F4. Enough to allow the aircraft to increase its operational performance, but also to remain competitive in the years to come, especially against the Lockheed Martin F ‑ 35.

On the F3R standard, the latest to date for the Rafale, efforts have mainly focused on updating the software and improving the sensors and armaments: AESA antenna for the RBE2 radar; integration of the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile; new TALIOS laser designation pod (Targeting Long-range Identification Optronic System); integration of GBU ‑ 16 and AASM Bk.3 bombs. With the F4 standard, the idea this time is to focus on issues of connectivity and network combat, which implies profound changes in both software and hardware. And, for the first time, the perfect technical interoperability of the Rafale fleet could well be undermined with an F4.1 standard for the existing Rafale and an F4.2 for the 58 aircraft still to be delivered to France. While all the devices will receive software updates and will be able to integrate the various modernized modular elements, such as the AESA radar or a new OSF (Frontal Sector Optronics), only F4.2 devices will receive all the hardware modifications of the standard. F4, especially in electronic warfare. A priori, these aircraft should also have precautionary measures for deeper modernizations in the context of subsequent standards, or a possible mid-life renovation of the Rafale.

Connectivity, engagement and availability

The first risk-lifting studies on the Rafale F4 standard began in 2017, the scope of the standard being determined the following year for a development launch in January 2019. At present, if the ambitions of the DGA and the GIE Rafale International on this new standard are clearly defined, all the details of the configuration would not have been fixed. As always, compromises will have to be made between operational needs, respect for the budgetary envelope and industrial imperatives. The open architecture of the Rafale should allow an incremental implementation of the new standard, with certain functionalities available from 2022, the validation of the complete standard not taking place until 2024 for delivery to the forces in 2025.

• interconnectivity;

• device support and availability;

• improvement of sensors;

• modernization of armaments.

In these different fields, many innovations have appeared in recent years. Thus, the computer components of modern weapon systems today increasingly rely on artificial intelligence for massive data processing, which has become essential for managing the complexity of the battlefield, but also for improving tools. predictive maintenance. Likewise, advances in applied chemistry have made it possible to improve missile propulsion, or to make the use of gallium nitride (GaN) affordable, which improves the performance of the AESA antennas of the Rafale's self-protection system. , the famous SPECTRA.

Communication and connectivity

If the Rafale were to have only one flaw, it would probably be its radio. Without being catastrophic, it seems quite far from current standards in terms of signal strength and clarity. With the F4 standard, the Rafale will finally be equipped with a brand new digital communication system which should improve pilots' situational awareness, including in electronically contested environments:

• the devices will thus receive CONTACT software radio, the new standard of the French armies allowing the various actors present in the theater to share a common operational image;

• a new intra-patrol tactical data link, discreet and directional, should also integrate the Rafale, alongside the current L-16. This link will be based on three-dimensional waveforms (FO3D) generated by digital synthesis;

• the Rafales should be equipped, at the bottom of the drift, with a military-grade, encrypted, discreet and SYRACUSE IV compatible SATCOM, which could be derived from the SAKaR unveiled by Thales in November 2018;

• the management of these communication sets, in addition to the existing data links, should be entrusted to a new generation of communication servers, possibly derived from Thales NEXENs, making it possible to simplify the task of the crew while ensuring encryption and cyber data protection.

All of this equipment should make it possible to create real communication networks within a Rafale patrol, but also, via SATCOM and CONTACT, throughout an entire theater of operations. Each pilot will thus have access to an extended tactical situation allowing long-range network combat, even in complex environments. The Rafale can also serve as a radio relay between ground troops and metropolitan decision-making centers, or follow the evolution of a tactical situation live from the start of their transit phase. In many respects, this is the real raison d'être of the F4 standard, which allows the Rafale to catch up with its connectivity delay on the F-35, mentioned in 2017 by the chief of staff of the Air Force in front of the National Assembly.

Sensors and interface

In line with the F3R standard, the F4 should bring improvements in terms of detection. For the AESA RBE2 radar, the modifications will mainly be software with the addition of a GMTI (Ground Moving Target Indicator) mode for the detection and tracking of mobile land targets, as well as an ultra-HD mode for imaging. long range radar. Mode interleaving should be further improved, in part thanks to the continued increase in computing power offered by the Rafale's open architecture, which should be completely modernized and made more resistant to cyber attacks. If the GaN-based AESA technology today seems too expensive to be applied to the antenna of an RBE2, it should be applied to those of the SPECTRA system, responsible in particular for wiretapping and jamming. SPECTRA should thus gain in frequency agility, angular precision, detection speed and transmission power, while operating over a wider range of frequencies, against aerial or surface contact. In terms of sensors, the great "novelty" should relate to the return of an IR channel on board the OSF, a capability abandoned a few years ago, but which was requested in particular by the French army. Indian air.

In terms of interface, the choice was made not to upset the existing ergonomics. In the cockpit, the side screens have been slightly enlarged and equipped with a new touch interface. The great ergonomic novelty should therefore be a helmet display, planned at the start of the program, but canceled twice in the past. Although the system is eagerly awaited by the pilots, all the obstacles have not yet been overcome. Indeed, the financial and operational logic pushes towards the choice of an Israeli solution already integrated on the Rafale export, while Thales logically militates for a national solution.

Armaments

After the integration of the Meteor into the F3R, the Rafale F4 armaments panel should expand further:

• the SCALP EG missile should be reconditioned by MBDA in order to deal with obsolescence and cell aging. The first refurbished SCALPs will be delivered next year and will serve until the early 2030s;

• AASM armament should evolve further, with the appearance of a simplified Bk.4, devoid of propulsion and optimized for close air support. A 1000 kg version of the AASM should also be integrated into the Rafale in the coming years, replacing the GBU ‑ 24;

• but the great innovation in terms of armament will be the MICA ‑ NG which will complete the Meteor on the medium range. If it maintains the aerodynamics, mass and balance of the MICA, the MICA ‑ NG will be a highly efficient missile. The radar-guided version will have a more powerful AESA antenna, but also more resistant to jamming. The MICA ‑ IR infrared seeker will be entitled to a new matrix sensor that is more sensitive and capable of better discriminating against adverse decoys. Finally, the miniaturization of the electronic compartment allows the transport of more propellant for the engine, which has a double impulse capacity. Enough to increase the MICA's range by 30%, while allowing it to keep energy in reserve to maneuver during the interception phase.

It should be noted that the integration of laser-guided rockets and the development of a new nuclear missile are the subject of separate programs and are therefore not taken into account in the context of the F4 standard.

Support and availability

As with every standard change, significant efforts have been made in terms of Maintenance in Operational Condition (MCO) and use costs, this time with a more extensive integration of the latest digital technologies. Today, the Harpagon technical restitution and logistics management system already makes it possible to do without a large part of periodic inspections on the Rafale, in particular by improving the remedial treatment of breakdowns and by making it possible to better anticipate preventive maintenance. The F3R standard already integrates diagnostic assistance functions using the data collected by the hundreds of sensors distributed throughout the cell of the device.

However, improving algorithms and computing power will make it possible to multiply the collection and use of massive data after each Rafale flight. Enough to set up, in the years to come, a real forecast maintenance which will further reduce the cost of operational support and improve availability ... if all the spare parts are not monopolized in OPEX, which is another thing. problem.

With the F4 standard, the entire logistics chain will therefore be updated in order to prepare for the gradual generalization of forecast maintenance methods. The Harpagon system will undergo a new development, miniaturized sensors will be integrated into the MICA ‑ NGs and the M88 reactor will receive a modernization of its FADECs, with new computers providing more data processing power. For Safran Aircraft Engines, massive collection of technical data is essential to improve engine efficiency, reduce maintenance costs, but also prepare for the future, in this case the motorization of the Franco-German SCAF.

As we can see, the successive standards of the Rafale bring their share of incremental modernizations, and the F4 is no exception to this rule. If, externally, the new standard does not seem to induce such significant changes as the F3R which saw the arrival of the RBE2 AESA and the Meteor, the evolution is nevertheless much more impressive on the numerical level, promising a major operational breakthrough in terms of tactical situational awareness, network-centric combat, electronic warfare, cyber protection and passive detection. Better still, the F4 is now preparing for the future evolutions of the Rafale, whether it concerns predictive maintenance, multistatic detection, precautionary measures for future plate radars distributed over the airframe of the aircraft or the improvement of electronic warfare capabilities, including offensives. Enough to allow the Rafale to remain a formidable adversary in the decades to come, even in the face of stealth planes.
 
As I read through the entirety of @BON PLAN 's last 2 posts on the description of the R4 standard improvements, they really don't seem as drastic as you would've thought as even mentioned by the literature itself in this paragraph right here:

As we can see, the successive standards of the Rafale bring their share of incremental modernizations, and the F4 is no exception to this rule. If, externally, the new standard does not seem to induce such significant changes as the F3R which saw the arrival of the RBE2 AESA and the Meteor, the evolution is nevertheless much more impressive on the numerical level, promising a major operational breakthrough in terms of tactical situational awareness, network-centric combat, electronic warfare, cyber protection and passive detection. Better still, the F4 is now preparing for the future evolutions of the Rafale, whether it concerns predictive maintenance, multistatic detection, precautionary measures for future plate radars distributed over the airframe of the aircraft or the improvement of electronic warfare capabilities, including offensives. Enough to allow the Rafale to remain a formidable adversary in the decades to come, even in the face of stealth planes.

Looking at the entire list seems to be incremental improvements to a lot of the existing elements from EW to even the radio is going to be improved as apparently is stinks in its present state which I found funny how they admitted that and the way they did. Minor improvements to the RBE2 AESA etc.

And remember the HMCS I mentioned to you earlier? About how that would be one of my requests for the next batch and not the Israeli one? Well, they even mention it and fascinating how Dassault only offers it on its export models and L'Armee de L'Air doesn't have or use a helmet mounted cueing system at all. That part surprised me quite a bit. I wonder why? They want it now with the F4 standard but why didn't they install or incorporate it earlier as they offered it on the export models?

The great ergonomic novelty should therefore be a helmet display, planned at the start of the program, but canceled twice in the past. Although the system is eagerly awaited by the pilots, all the obstacles have not yet been overcome. Indeed, the financial and operational logic pushes towards the choice of an Israeli solution already integrated on the Rafale export, while Thales logically militates for a national solution.

I hope Thales comes up with one and doesn't end up using the Israeli ("Trojan" I beleive is the name of the HMCS they use in the Rafale and have sold to India and Qatar) one so that there is that option available for the EAF. But now it makes more sense why they didn't order any system at all. Perhaps they were told of the Thales possibility and elected to wait for that instead of looking at other outside options?

They should certainly think of it for the Rafales since they're getting 20 more from the sound of it and they're used on the MiG-35 and will be on the Su-35 as well. Doesn't makes sense that the Rafale, with all its great systems wouldn't have it.

• but the great innovation in terms of armament will be the MICA ‑ NG which will complete the Meteor on the medium range. If it maintains the aerodynamics, mass and balance of the MICA, the MICA ‑ NG will be a highly efficient missile. The radar-guided version will have a more powerful AESA antenna, but also more resistant to jamming. The MICA ‑ IR infrared seeker will be entitled to a new matrix sensor that is more sensitive and capable of better discriminating against adverse decoys. Finally, the miniaturization of the electronic compartment allows the transport of more propellant for the engine, which has a double impulse capacity. Enough to increase the MICA's range by 30%, while allowing it to keep energy in reserve to maneuver during the interception phase.

We talked about the MICA NG in this thread a while back when we were discussing the range and lethality of the two MICAs that came with the Rafale and looking at a 30% increase in range is a great thing and with the slight improvements on the RBE2, this should add a huge step to the Rafale's BVR capabilities.

Better still, the F4 is now preparing for the future evolutions of the Rafale, whether it concerns predictive maintenance, multistatic detection, precautionary measures for future plate radars distributed over the airframe of the aircraft or the improvement of electronic warfare capabilities, including offensives. Enough to allow the Rafale to remain a formidable adversary in the decades to come, even in the face of stealth planes.

Gonna have to look into those "plate radars distributed over the airframe" to understand what the heck they're referring to?! Sounds pretty amazing. Any ideas?
 
I hope Thales comes up with one and doesn't end up using the Israeli ("Trojan" I beleive is the name of the HMCS they use in the Rafale and have sold to India and Qatar) one so that there is that option available for the EAF. But now it makes more sense why they didn't order any system at all. Perhaps they were told of the Thales possibility and elected to wait for that instead of looking at other outside options?

They should certainly think of it for the Rafales since they're getting 20 more from the sound of it and they're used on the MiG-35 and will be on the Su-35 as well. Doesn't makes sense that the Rafale, with all its great systems wouldn't have it.
Yes!
Infact the Indian Navy uses the Thales Topsight on the MiG-29K/KuB
Thales Topsight I.jpg

DVcqDFFWAAE1E52.jpeg

EAF should standardise on this from Thales, probably even manufacture it at home.
Massive help when flying low in valleys during pitch black conditions and bad weather.
 
Yes!
Infact the Indian Navy uses the Thales Topsight on the MiG-29K/KuB
View attachment 666423
View attachment 666411
EAF should standardise on this from Thales, probably even manufacture it at home.
Massive help when flying low in valleys during pitch black conditions and bad weather.
The EAF should copy the IAF in terms of Russian fleet - merging Russian fighters w/ western avionics appears to be an all out effort in India.
 

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