Egypt signs $2 billion deal for 50 MiG-35 fighter jets from Russia

[GumNaam]

Egypt is cornering itself into a maintenance nightmare. Russian, american & french fighters is a big range of very diverse technologies to maintain.

 

[The SC]

Egypt is cornering itself into a maintenance nightmare. Russian, american & french fighters is a big range of very diverse technologies to maintain.

There is no maintenance nightmare for Egypt .. it ptoduces 100 000 engineers a year and more than 200 000 technicians.. technology is not an issue either.. all is under control..The Egyptian airforce knows better than anyone..

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

Is the BAF interested in the MiG-35? I haven't followed the thread in a little while. Great discussion on that BTW. You guys are brutally tough on them lol.

BAF is no longer interested in Mig-35s due to CAATSA (we wont get CAATSA waiver like other countries).

At the moment we are negotiating for Either Typhoon or Rafale.(Most likely typhoon) BAF has asked for 3 billion USD for 16 jets.

All the best to Egypt.

 

[Basel]

BAF is no longer interested in Mig-35s due to CAATSA (we wont get CAATSA waiver like other countries).

At the moment we are negotiating for Either Typhoon or Rafale.(Most likely typhoon) BAF has asked for 3 billion USD for 16 jets.

All the best to Egypt.

BAF can go for second hand EFTs from UK or possibly Austria with small numbers of new EFTs (latest trench), it will be big boost for BAF specially if Meteor AAM is available with them.

 

[F-6 enthusiast]

BAF can go for second hand EFTs from UK or possibly Austria with small numbers of new EFTs (latest trench), it will be big boost for BAF specially if Meteor AAM is available with them.

tranche 1 eft is not capable of firing meteor as far as i know. Uk probably wont sell them and put them in storage.

 

[GumNaam]

There is no maintenance nightmare for Egypt .. it ptoduces 100 000 engineers a year and more than 200 000 technicians.. technology is not an issue either.. all is under control..The Egyptian airforce knows better than anyone..

whatever you say dude...

 

[Keysersoze]

There is no maintenance nightmare for Egypt .. it ptoduces 100 000 engineers a year and more than 200 000 technicians.. technology is not an issue either.. all is under control..The Egyptian airforce knows better than anyone..

Lol it's true what they say about the difference amateurs and professionals.
Unless you are using the technicians and and engineers as spare parts and ordnance then your point is idiotic. Different systems Russian French/American do not interact easily and during war this would be exposed by any semi competent opponent.

There is so much wrong with this. The only reason Egypt has done this is to avoid embargoes, otherwise it would be a bad decision. The EAF record is abysmal

 

[The SC]

Lol it's true what they say about the difference amateurs and professionals.
Unless you are using the technicians and and engineers as spare parts and ordnance then your point is idiotic. Different systems Russian French/American do not interact easily and during war this would be exposed by any semi competent opponent.

There is so much wrong with this. The only reason Egypt has done this is to avoid embargoes, otherwise it would be a bad decision. The EAF record is abysmal

Too many ignorant and idiotic comments to answer..
Just know that Egypt makes most of its spare parts..

 

[Nasr]

I believe the MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is a fighter will enormous potential for any country that has the correct approach in building a fighter fleet.

The correct way of going about this, is firstly to establish a comprehensive agreement on supply of spares, logistical set-up by the operator country and investment on maintenance being done in-country. Investing in MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is worth the effort, since this fighter is not just a fighter-jet, it's brawler-jet. The MiG-35 has some unique capabilities and if the operator country manages to establish a seamless logistical base for the MiG fleet. It's ability to generate a higher rate of sorties will result in a significant advantage in times of war.

 

[Gomig-21]

BAF is no longer interested in Mig-35s due to CAATSA (we wont get CAATSA waiver like other countries).

At the moment we are negotiating for Either Typhoon or Rafale.(Most likely typhoon) BAF has asked for 3 billion USD for 16 jets.

Excellent. I used to think that the Rafale was a MUCH better option than the Typhoon. But since I'm an older bastard...lol...I was mostly referring to the Tranch 1 & 2 at the time of that reasoning. Now with the Tranch 3 and much more improved EFTs including the latest with the CAPTOR-E AESA radar and so many new improvements to that aircraft, including the added ability to carry and fire one of the 2 or 3 best A2A missile in the Meteor makes it one of the best 4 gen fighter jet platforms out there. That doesn't reduce the Rafale's position. Either one of those jets would be a great choice for the BAF.

All the best to Egypt.

Likewise. I'll definitely be back to following the latest development on that thread.

Egypt actually exports some military stuff to Bangladesh. The last one I saw was the supply of 20 or so Egyptian-built RIBs with complete package such as the outboard engines and spares etc.

The correct way of going about this, is firstly to establish a comprehensive agreement on supply of spares, logistical set-up by the operator country and investment on maintenance being done in-country.

What a refreshing and mature as well as an intelligent post that doesn't include any of the regretfully ignorant and insulting dribble in some of the previous disparaging and hateful posts. Even constructive criticism is perfectly fine, of course. Egypt is making great progress in its quest to not only modernize it's armed forces, but to move away from dominantly US supplies and the grip it has on the Egyptian military.

To address your first comment above, the EAF has a rather large maintenance program it has established a while ago that is only improving in time. According to Global Security and info from the Israeli spying network lol, just to show an outside source since most wouldn't believe a local one:

With the cooperation of Chinese and Western manufacturers, Egypt developed a major domestic industry that assembled aircraft and produced parts. The Egyptian and Pakistani governments reportedly agreed in November 2000 on a major bilateral defense trade agreement which involved the refurbishment of Egyptian Air Force (EAF) aircraft in Pakistan in exchange for the supply of Egyptian F-16A/B spare parts to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The deal, which had been in preparation for some time, was reportedly finalized by Pakistan Chief Executive Gen. Pervez Musharraf and senior Egyptian officials at the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) summit in Doha on November 13-14, 2000. What was agreed, reportedly, included:

• The provision by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) at Kamra, near Islamabad, of major overhauls and upgrades of some or all of the airframes and engines of the EAF's 13 Dassault Mirage 5 E2 tactical fighters; appr. 45 Dassault Mirage 5 SDE tactical fighters; less than 6 Dassault Mirage 5SDR tactical reconnaissance aircraft; and 5 Dassault Mirage 5 SDD operational trainers at the Mirage Rebuild Facility, which is part of PAC;
• The provision by PAC of major overhauls and upgrades of some or all of the airframes and engines of the EAF's appr. 45 Chengdu F-7B Fishbed tactical fighters at the F-6 Rebuild Facility, part of PAC. [Although called the F-6 Rebuild Facility, it undertakes major work on A-5, F-6 and F-7 types.] As well, similar work would be undertaken on some or all of the EAF's appr. 400 Mikoyan MiG-21PFS, MiG-21PFM and MiG-21MF Fishbed tactical fighters; appr. 10 Mikoyan MiG-21R Fishbed tactical reconnaissance aircraft; and appr.12 Mikoyan MiG-21UM/US Mongol operational trainers; as well as appr. 50 Shenyang F-6 Farmer tactical fighters; 5 Shenyang FT-6 Farmer operational trainers.
• The provision by Pakistan Ordnance Factories, at Wah Cantonment, near Islamabad, of a range of ordnance and munitions for the Egyptian Armed Forces;
• Other as-yet unidentified goods and services to be provided by Pakistan to the Egyptian Armed Forces;
• Provision by Egypt of spare parts for the PAF's appr. 35 F-16A/B fighters.

The Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), AIR-1.4, SH-2G (E) Program Manager (PM) is responsible for the ongoing Program Management of the SH-2G(E) Program for the Government of Egypt and for implementing multiple programs to the SH-2G(E) weapon system, including Egyptian Depot Level Maintenance (EDLM), upgrades, and tactics. The PM is also responsible for the development of a new SH-2G Search and Rescue (SAR) program for the Egyptian Air Force (EAF).

The EAF entered the third millennium with large upgrading and modifying programmers. The old L-29 was being replaced by advanced K-8E that will be locally built in Egypt and the German Group-105 will replace old HA-100 in the Egyptian air academy service. Egyptian Air Force: ongoing technical support, maintenance support and spare parts for C-130s, F-4s, F-16s, E-2Cs, CH-47s, Falcon Business Jets, Apaches, and Black Hawks. There are construction projects for air base infrastructure for the Egyptian Air Force. They also require control tower equipment and aircraft simulator support.
Source.

From another source regarding the EAF's ability to maintain its huge fleet of F-16s:

SOURCE: United Industrial Corporation
United Industrial Subsidiary Awarded Letter Contract and Initial $14 Million Funding from Hill Air Force Base for Egyptian F-16 Maintenance Depot

NEW YORK, Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- United Industrial Corporation (NYSE: UIC - news) today announced that its ACL Technologies (ACL) subsidiary has received a letter contract to initiate all efforts necessary to perform as the Integration Contractor for the construction of a F-16 maintenance depot in Egypt.

Awarded by Hill Air Force Base in Ogden, Utah, the contract is part of the Foreign Military Sales program between the United States and the Government of Egypt. The contract will be completed over a two-year period and will provide the Egyptian Air Force with the capability to repair and overhaul over 350 components on the F-16 Fighter Aircraft. ACL will receive initial funding of $14 million, pending final agreement on the entire scope of work. The full contract is valued at up to $28 million, with additional options to be considered.

Under the contract, ACL will purchase, manufacture and integrate equipment and provide other services necessary to establish a component overhaul capability for the Egyptian Air Force. The scope of the contract includes, fuel, hydraulics, pneumatics, oxygen, landing gear, electrical, instrument and machine shops, all of which will be located near Cairo, Egypt.
Source:

Pratt & Whitney F100 Engine Line Opens at Egypt Air Force's Helwan Depot

EAST HARTFORD, Conn., April 24, 2007 – Pratt & Whitney, in partnership with the United States Air Force and the Egyptian Air Force, announced today the opening of the F100 engine line at the Helwan Depot located at the Helwan Air Base in Egypt. The Egyptian Air Force’s F-16 fleet is powered by the F100-PW-220/220E propulsion systems. Pratt & Whitney is a United Technologies Corp. (NYSE:UTX) company.

“We are proud to commence a new chapter in supporting Egypt’s F100 engines,” said Larry Jones, vice president, military customer support for Pratt & Whitney. “This strong partnership represents our commitment to providing the Egyptian Air Force with the highest quality technical support and customer service, ensuring the long-term success of their F100 engines.”

As part of Pratt & Whitney’s Customer Support program, the Egyptian Air Force’s Helwan Depot received facility upgrades in 2005 to 2006 that included delivery of essential F100 engine support equipment, as well as an onsite Pratt & Whitney Field Support Representative who will provide ongoing technical support to the Air Force. The first module, a Low Pressure Turbine (LPT), was produced from the F100 line this April.

Egypt is among 22 nations to fly the F100 engine. Pratt & Whitney’s F100 engine family has more than 20 million engine flight hours of operational experience and more than 7,000 engines have been delivered or are under contract.

Pratt & Whitney military engines include the F100 that powers the F-16 and F-15, the F135 for the F-35 Lightning II; F119 for the F-22 Raptor; F117 for the C-17 Globemaster III; J52 for the EA-6B Prowler; TF33 powering AWACS, Joint STARS, B-52, and KC-135 aircraft; TF30 for the F-111; PT6 for T-6A and UH-1N aircraft; and JT15 for the T-1A trainer and Pegasus UCAV.

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Egypt even overhauls it's Mirage 2000s completely independently. The reason why it has been able to effectively operate them for close to 40 years. Despite already having its own maintenance depot for its fleet of Rafales, it's limited to a small number of standard parts, but with the additional contract for 30 Rafale to up the fleet to 54 aircraft, the EAF is in negotiations with Dassault to be able to develop machinery and equipment to produce the more intricate and advanced part for that terrific jet.

It has already developed a mobile AESA ground radar based on the Rafale's RBE-2 AESA radar. There was a thread already opened on that radar so it is posted and available to see. That only shows the level of cooperation to be capable of locally producing important parts for the Rafale fleet in Egypt.

And as far as the Russian aircraft, people need to remember that the EAF has been operating Russian hardware for many decades and producing spares for them as well as their large fleet of F-7s after the Pakistani agreement. Egypt has been quite involved with the Chinese on many levels of local production, from its fleet of Chinese aircraft to all the recent unmanned platforms it has procured from China which amount to well over 100 units currently operating in the EAF, mostly Wing Loong UAVs and CH-5 UCAVs.

Egypt is currently in its best times as far as its relationship with Russia. I think it's quite obvious with the acquisition of the MiG-29M/M2 as well as the Su-35S and the huge contracts for radars, which include the pair of over the horizon Protivnik-GE and Resonance-SE, both with a range of 1,100 km and tracking ability at 600 km. Then there's also the massive amounts of SAMs Egypt has been buying from Russia since the early 60's as well as locally producing several models of Russian SAMs. There are A LOT of agreements between Egypt and Russia that will facilitate local maintenance capabilities to independently sustain the workability of all the Russian aircraft and other equipment in the EAF.

Investing in MiG-35 Fulcrum-F is worth the effort, since this fighter is not just a fighter-jet, it's brawler-jet. The MiG-35 has some unique capabilities and if the operator country manages to establish a seamless logistical base for the MiG fleet. It's ability to generate a higher rate of sorties will result in a significant advantage in times of war.

Yep, and I think I have outlined quite enough to support your comment that the EAF is quite capable of doing exactly that, considering it has a robust relationship with Russia including having them build the first nuclear reactor in Africa. Maintaining the MiGs and eventually the Su-35s strictly in Egypt will not be an issue whatsoever.

 

[Keysersoze]

Too many ignorant and idiotic comments to answer..
Just know that Egypt makes most of its spare parts..

Nope thinking that having multiple aircraft types is a good idea is stupid. Thinking that logistics for multiple types is simple is stupid. Making comments about the number of engineers in Egypt and thinking it means anything, is stupid. The EAF has a terrible record. And it is because politicians and poor military leadership are making decisions. Making excuses out of national pride is stupid.

 

[The SC]

Nope thinking that having multiple aircraft types is a good idea is stupid. Thinking that logistics for multiple types is simple is stupid. Making comments about the number of engineers in Egypt and thinking it means anything, is stupid. The EAF has a terrible record. And it is because politicians and poor military leadership are making decisions. Making excuses out of national pride is stupid.

Criticizing the Egyptian leadership.. is the only stupid thing in all this dumb post..too much ignorance and seeking for some sense of importance won't get you far here.. go educate yourself about these matters first..

How many types China has?
How many types The US has?
How many types Russia has?

 

[Keysersoze]

Criticizing the Egyptian leadership.. is the only stupid thing in all this dumb post..too much ignorance and seeking for some sense of importance won't get you far here.. go educate yourself about these matters first..

How many types China has?
How many types The US has?
How many types Russia has?

You keep claiming ignorance on the part of others having posted the most inane of comments about "Engineers"

And asking what types CHINA/RUSSIA/US have in a discussion about the Egyptian airforce shows how dim-witted your assertion is.

The Egyptian air forces record is a part of History. They have not been of any use

Finally here is a snippet from a think-tank about the the EAF that sums it up.

"the EAF’s overall organization and recruitment have not been substantially improved. Officers are still educated almost exclusively in military-run institutions, so they are not exposed to the broadening effects of interacting with civilian academics and students, as is typical in Western militaries. NCOs must serve for eighteen years before they have a chance of becoming commissioned officers, but most only attain that status as an honorific on retirement. There is no evidence that their vital contribution to military effectiveness has, as yet, been appreciated. Officers spend too long in the same assignment, and thereby they do not have sufficient opportunities to learn new skills and outlooks associated with varied experiences. Conscripts continue to be treated as cannon fodder—as indicated by their relatively high casualty rate in the Sinai—and as free labor for military-owned enterprises. Most university-educated youths are loath to serve in the military. Instead of seeing it as a career step, they see military service as tantamount to a career holding pattern. Many do whatever is necessary to avoid conscription, including paying bribes. Of the total number of active duty and reserve personnel of some 850,000, poorly educated conscripts comprise the overwhelming majority."

Don't act like some of us haven't visited the middle East and seem how things work there. That's why they keep losing...

 

[The SC]

You keep claiming ignorance on the part of others having posted the most inane of comments about "Engineers"

And asking what types CHINA/RUSSIA/US have in a discussion about the Egyptian airforce shows how dim-witted your assertion is.

The Egyptian air forces record is a part of History. They have not been of any use

Finally here is a snippet from a think-tank about the the EAF that sums it up.

"the EAF’s overall organization and recruitment have not been substantially improved. Officers are still educated almost exclusively in military-run institutions, so they are not exposed to the broadening effects of interacting with civilian academics and students, as is typical in Western militaries. NCOs must serve for eighteen years before they have a chance of becoming commissioned officers, but most only attain that status as an honorific on retirement. There is no evidence that their vital contribution to military effectiveness has, as yet, been appreciated. Officers spend too long in the same assignment, and thereby they do not have sufficient opportunities to learn new skills and outlooks associated with varied experiences. Conscripts continue to be treated as cannon fodder—as indicated by their relatively high casualty rate in the Sinai—and as free labor for military-owned enterprises. Most university-educated youths are loath to serve in the military. Instead of seeing it as a career step, they see military service as tantamount to a career holding pattern. Many do whatever is necessary to avoid conscription, including paying bribes. Of the total number of active duty and reserve personnel of some 850,000, poorly educated conscripts comprise the overwhelming majority."

Don't act like some of us haven't visited the middle East and seem how things work there. That's why they keep losing...

Losing what?
You seem hurt by the shear power of the Egyptian armed forces.. and trying to justify your pain.. it is too obvious..

 

[CHI RULES]

Nope thinking that having multiple aircraft types is a good idea is stupid. Thinking that logistics for multiple types is simple is stupid. Making comments about the number of engineers in Egypt and thinking it means anything, is stupid. The EAF has a terrible record. And it is because politicians and poor military leadership are making decisions. Making excuses out of national pride is stupid.

Perhaps money is poured in by foreign powers so Egypt is able to stock pile sufficient spares of different origins. As per my humble opinion do same spares can be used for Mig 21s and F7s,