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Egypt: Muslim mob bars Christians from entering church

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Egypt: Muslim mob bars Christians from entering church

Supposedly because the Coptic women were "dressed inappropriately." But in reality, this was yet another assertion of power and supremacism over the Christians by the Muslims in Egypt.

"Angry mob bars church goers in Beni Suef," by Luiz Sanchez from Daily News Egypt, October 28

A large mob in the village of Ezbet Marco, in the Beni Suef governorate, gathered around the only Coptic Church in the area on Sunday morning, forbidding Copts from neighbouring villages from entering the church.
According to Ishak Ibrahim, a journalist and researcher at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, two Copts were injured as a result of violence brought about by the predominantly conservative Muslim crowd barring the entrance.

As the church is the only church in the area, it is very hard for Copts in neighbouring villages to pray elsewhere. As the mob maintained their blockade of the church skirmishes occurred, and two Copts identified by Ibrahim as Sobhi Saleh and Ibrahim Sadeq reportedly suffered from fractured arms and feet. Cars were also damaged in the scuffle.

“During Ramadan priests and Copts from Ezbet Marco were asked to not allow Copts from outside the village to pray in the church because the Muslims in the area believe they dress inappropriately,” Ibrahim added. The women’s attire does not conform to traditional dress.

The police surrounded the church to protect it from being attacked and, according to eyewitnesses that had spoken to Ibrahim, managed to diffuse the situation and arrest some people suspected of participating in the mob.

“This is not only a problem in this village,” Ibrahim said. “It is a big problem across Egypt.” Two months ago, in the Al-Amareya district in Alexandria, Muslims demanded the local church refuse to receive Christians from outside the village. “What can the people do,” Ibrahim said. “They don’t have [a] church in their area and therefore must go to nearby villages that do have one.”

Ibrahim asserts that it is the right of every citizen in Egypt to be allowed to have faith and practice what he or she believes. “The state in turn has the duty to protect them and their right to practice their beliefs,” he said. The rhetoric offered by the government, according to Ibrahim, is that there are not enough Christians in such areas to justify the construction of new churches and so the Copts from surrounding villages have no other choice than to make the journey to the neighbouring villages.

Ibrahim demanded the government and President Mohamed Morsy work to resolve the issue surrounding church building, in order to allow Christians to build their places of worship with the same rights as Muslims.

Currently mosques may be built virtually anywhere and with little interference from the government, but Copts require written permission from the government before they are allowed to build, and are often met with a rejection.
 
10 years down the line Egypt is in for Sudan style partition.
 
why is it that muslim majority in any place almost always tends to become a no right zone for people from other religions. it is so sickening that now as a hindu i do not mind living in a sikh, christian, buddhist, jain, or any other religion dominated area but really I don't ever want to live in a muslim dominated area as I am sure I will never feel like a free person or safe in such a area. I am being as truthful as I can be. I can say the same for christians, sikhs and other religion people.

Unless there is a very strong police presence, or the area has been declared ISLAMIC (like in middle east) which means all other religions are not free to live there life. Apart from the above two situations it is almost impossible to live freely in a muslim dominated area and live your life freely with full rights.

If I live in a muslim dominated area and do not talk to even a single muslim and just live my life and do my things the way I want I am sure someday I would be in trouble even though I did not interact with any muslim and I just want to live my life. This is not so if I am living in a sikh or christian or other religion dominated area.

I could have opted to avoid writing it or to put it down in words. As much as it is a difficult question to ask, I did not want to avoid it. so without flaming I hope to get some genuine answers- there is no doubt a underlying feeling of Islamophobia today in all other religions and I feel its somewhat genuine and there is no smoke without fire.
 
why is it that muslim majority in any place almost always tends to become a no right zone for people from other religions. it is so sickening that now as a hindu i do not mind living in a sikh, christian, buddhist, jain, or any other religion dominated area but really I don't ever want to live in a muslim dominated area as I am sure I will never feel like a free person or safe in such a area. I am being as truthful as I can be. I can say the same for christians, sikhs and other religion people.

Unless there is a very strong police presence, or the area has been declared ISLAMIC (like in middle east) which means all other religions are not free to live there life. Apart from the above two situations it is almost impossible to live freely in a muslim dominated area and live your life freely with full rights.

If I live in a muslim dominated area and do not talk to even a single muslim and just live my life and do my things the way I want I am sure someday I would be in trouble even though I did not interact with any muslim and I just want to live my life. This is not so if I am living in a sikh or christian or other religion dominated area.

I could have opted to avoid writing it or to put it down in words. As much as it is a difficult question to ask, I did not want to avoid it. so without flaming I hope to get some genuine answers- there is no doubt a underlying feeling of Islamophobia today in all other religions and I feel its somewhat genuine and there is no smoke without fire.

I understand your point of view..But, its not about Islam..Culture, society,politics, education, media, past grievances; these are the main reasons which cause such incidents imho..A Bosnian or an Albanian Muslim who lives in Serbia is facing the same intolerance problems too or a recent event, persecution of Muslims in Burma would be a good example.. In Turkey, a muslim majority country, we dont have such issues..In fact, there are churches, mosques and synagogues that have existed side by side for hundreds of years..All in all, extremists/fanatics are in everywhere and we are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam.
 
10 years down the line Egypt is in for Sudan style partition.

Partition sounds more and more plausable if the current Egypt gov. and public opinion of Muslims persist. Upper and Lower Egypt again like before the pharaohs?
 
I understand your point of view..But, its not about Islam..Culture, society,politics, education, media, past grievances; these are the main reasons which cause such incidents imho..A Bosnian or an Albanian Muslim who lives in Serbia is facing the same intolerance problems too or a recent event, persecution of Muslims in Burma would be a good example.. In Turkey, a muslim majority country, we dont have such issues..In fact, there are churches, mosques and synagogues that have existed side by side for hundreds of years..All in all, extremists/fanatics are in everywhere and we are sick and tired of extremists dictating the public face of Islam.

Turkey is not a role model for Muslim countries. LOL.

Please get rid of the those fanatic Kemalists, then talk!
 
Turkey is not a role model for Muslim countries. LOL.

Please get rid of the those fanatic Kemalists, then talk!

Dear, where did i say in my post that Turkey is a role model for Muslim countries? Thats completely different topic

Please dont tell me when to talk..This is an international forum to discuss opinions
 
The Christian Exodus From Egypt
For Copts, a persecuting dictator was preferable to the Islamist mob.

Visit any Coptic church in the United States and you immediately recognize the newcomers. You see it in their eyes, hear it in their broken English, sense it in how they cling to the church in search of the familiar. They have come here escaping a place they used to call home, where their ancestors had lived for centuries.

Waves of Copts have come here from Egypt before, to escape Gamal Abdel Nasser's nationalizations or the growing Islamist tide. Their country's transformation wasn't sudden, but every year brought more public Islamization. As the veil spread, Coptic women felt increasingly different, alien and marked. Verbal abuse came from schoolteachers, bystanders in the bus station who noticed the cross on a wrist, or commentators on state television.

But life was generally bearable. Hosni Mubarak crushed the Islamist insurgency of the 1980s and '90s. He was no friend to the Copts, but neither was he foe. His police often turned a blind eye when Coptic homes and shops were attacked by mobs, and the courts never punished the perpetrators—but the president wasn't an Islamist. He even interfered sometimes to give permission to build a church, or to make Christmas a national holiday.

To be sure, Copts were excluded from high government positions. There were no Coptic governors, intelligence officers, deans of schools, or CEOs of government companies. Until 2005, Copts needed presidential approval to build a new church or even build a bathroom in an existing one. Even with approval, state security often blocked construction, citing security concerns.

Those concerns were often real. Mobs could mobilize against Copts with the slightest incitement—rumor of a romantic relationship between a Christian man and a Muslim woman, a church being built, reports of a Christian having insulted Islam. The details varied but the results didn't: homes burned, shops destroyed, Christians leaving villages, sometimes dead bodies. The police would arrive late and force a reconciliation session between perpetrators and victims during which everything would be forgiven and no one punished. What pained the Copts most was that the attackers were neighbors, co-workers and childhood friends.

Then came last year's revolution. Copts were never enthusiastic about it, perhaps because centuries of persecution taught that the persecuting dictator was preferable to the mob. He could be bought off, persuaded to hold back or pressured by outside forces. With the mob you stood no chance. Some younger Copts were lured by the promise of a liberal Egypt, but the older generation knew better.

The collapse of the police liberated the Islamists, who quickly dominated national politics but were even more powerful in the streets and villages. This is where the "Islamization of life" (as Muslim Brotherhood leader Khairat Al Shater called for) was becoming a reality.

The Muslim Brotherhood aimed to assuage Coptic fears while speaking in English to American audiences. The reality was different. When Coptic homes and shops were looted in a village near Alexandria in January, Brotherhood parliamentarians and Salafis organized a reconciliation session that didn't punish the attackers but ordered the Copts to evacuate the village.

Soon after, the Brotherhood's Sayed Askar denied that Copts face any problems in building churches, saying they have more churches than they need. Elections featured accusations that Copts backed the old regime. When attempts to build a non-Islamist coalition were led by businessman Naguib Sawiris, a Copt, the Brotherhood's website accused him and his co-religionists of treason.

Westerners may debate how moderate Egypt's Islamists are, but for Copts the questioning is futile. Their options are limited. While Copts are the largest Christian community in the Middle East, they're too small to play a role in deciding the fate of the country. They are not geographically concentrated in one area that could become a safe zone. The only option is to leave, putting an end to 2,000 years of Christianity in Egypt.

The sad truth is that not all will be able to flee. Those with money, English skills and the like will get out. Their poorer brethren will be left behind.

What can be done to save them? Egypt receives $1.5 billion in U.S. aid each year, and Washington has various means to make Egypt's new leaders listen. Islamist attempts to enshrine second-class status for Copts in Egypt's new constitution should be stopped. Outsiders should also keep an eye on Muslim Brotherhood politicians who are planning to take control of Coptic Church finances. At a minimum, donors should demand that attacks on Copts be met with punishment as well as condemnation.

Yet looking at the faces of the new immigrants in my Fairfax, Va., church, I cannot escape the feeling that it is too late. Perhaps the fate of the Copts was sealed long ago, in the middle of the last century, when the Jews were kicked out of Egypt. In the late 1940s, Brotherhood demonstrators chanted, in reference to the sabbath days of Jews and others: "Today is Saturday, tomorrow will be Sunday, oh Christians." And so it is.

Mr. Tadros is a research fellow at the Hudson Institute's Center for Religious Freedom. He is currently writing a book about the Copts for the Hoover Institution.

A version of this article appeared October 12, 2012, on page A11 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: The Christian Exodus From Egypt

Samuel Tadros: The Christian Exodus From Egypt - WSJ.com
 
...Perhaps the fate of the Copts was sealed long ago, in the middle of the last century, when the Jews were kicked out of Egypt. In the late 1940s, Brotherhood demonstrators chanted, in reference to the sabbath days of Jews and others: "Today is Saturday, tomorrow will be Sunday, oh Christians." And so it is...
Something Pakistanis here might want to think deeply about.

Back in 2007 Sam thought the M-B wouldn't be much of a bother once Mubarak was overthrown. He didn't realize he needed a plan and the reformers needed depth: without the wide spread of democratic values their revolution could fail.

Still, the M-B are not the Salafis. There is STILL a chance the M-B and Morsi gov't can move forward, not backward to the 12th century. However, at the moment the most militant religion in Egypt is misogyny and nobody is prepared to confront it rather than try to absorb it into one political party or the other.
 
No one cares about the rohinga or palestinians why should we worry about the copts
 
Turkey is not a role model for Muslim countries. LOL.

Please get rid of the those fanatic Kemalists, then talk!

Those Kemalists are the reason why Turkey is prospering and the envy of the muslim world.
 
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