Egypt mulls JF-17 co-production

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

If the egyptians have asked pakistan then why would someone look the gift horse in the mouth first off all---secondly---that means that there is more to the substance matter than what meets the eyes.

In a joint venture kind of project---it does not make any difference who contacts whom---it would have already been agreed upon how the pie would be split.

Plus---it is only reasonable that the egyptians contact pakistan---because---guess what---pak has the only operational squadron in service as to date---so that makes it an obvious choice. Egyptians would be very much interested in the flight systems and system integration---plus the italian and french electronics packages that pak is working wioth the italians and the french.

 

[TaimiKhan]

though mentioned my others, i will again say that at the moment we cant even meet our own requirements and therefore need china to simultaneously produce them for us. so how do you expect us to produce for a third country in such a massive quantity. and if we do, by the time we deliver the last plane, this tech will already be obsolete and will require some upgrades in form of blk II or something. its better to let them have the assembly and to some extent the production line as well.
at this stage we need to earn some name. its not yet time to start thinking about huge monetary profits

Sir, there are negotiations only going on, nothing is yet finalized. We all know whenever an order is placed, it takes 2-3 years before first plane gets delivered, and as we have heard already, we have 2 production lines working at PAC, similarly China has its own production lines. And if the deal goes it doesn't means all the order will get satisfied by Pakistan alone. This is a joint produced aircraft, thus the order will also get split between both the countries. We all know we can't do it all alone.

Pakistan & China being joint partners in this product gives them nearly the same equal rights to market it. China has been showing this aircraft to the world, Pakistan has bee showing it to the world in defence exhibitions.

Even if an order is placed now, very difficult that a plane would be delivered before 2012-13, enough time for us to have made our first batch of JF-17s, having trained human resource and setup of production line specifically for just export orders and China with its industrial capacity would have made a production line or even would have started giving the Egyptians the production line to assemble it in their own country.

Nothing is clear so far, terms and conditions all will come to light after deal is finalized.

All we can do for now is, think of it as a good development for the JF program.

 

[chinapakistan]

Is there a reference for this information?

Sir, JF-17 project has 50%-50% investment by china and pakistan.
And according to all article about JF-17 I read, both chinese and pakistani engineer worked together, there are no issue about which part are made by chinese and which part are make by pakistani. The whole JF-17 is made by pakistani aslo chinese.

 

[mughaljee]

I think good for both countries.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Is there a reference for this information?

Sir, we are the only ones to have inducted the plane , you know for that no reference required.

And as for the money thing, from the start of the program, till this day, every article official and non official has quoted this to be an equal investment project money wise.

 

[qsaark]

Sir, we are the only ones to have inducted the plane , you know for that no reference required.

Did I ask for a reference for this?

And as for the money thing, from the start of the program, till this day, every article official and non official has quoted this to be an equal investment project money wise.

I asked for a reference because I don't recall any such thing categorically mentioned in "every article official and non official" or I must have missed it.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Soon every nation who fly mig21 will replace them with JF-17 , so many willing to buy in Africa, but there should be one window operation and all the deals should be made trough China and profit should be 50 / 50 among Pakistan and China.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Did I ask for a reference for this?

I asked for a reference because I don't recall any such thing categorically mentioned in "every article official and non official" or I must have missed it.

You highlighted the whole part, so i mentioned it.

PAKISTAN AIR FORCE - Official website "JF-17 Thunder aircraft is an advanced multirole Light Combat Aircraft jointly invested and developed by China and Pakistan. It is a key collaboration strategic project between two countries in the military field. "

PAKISTAN AIR FORCE - Official website

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder / Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Fierce Dragon

FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder


And giving Pakistan the marketing rights, the manufacturing infrastructure, only means one thing, that PAF is nearly a 50% investment partner in this project.

Rest upto you how you take it Sir.

 

[fatman17]

Sir, there are negotiations only going on, nothing is yet finalized. We all know whenever an order is placed, it takes 2-3 years before first plane gets delivered, and as we have heard already, we have 2 production lines working at PAC, similarly China has its own production lines. And if the deal goes it doesn't means all the order will get satisfied by Pakistan alone. This is a joint produced aircraft, thus the order will also get split between both the countries. We all know we can't do it all alone.

Pakistan & China being joint partners in this product gives them nearly the same equal rights to market it. China has been showing this aircraft to the world, Pakistan has bee showing it to the world in defence exhibitions.

Even if an order is placed now, very difficult that a plane would be delivered before 2012-13, enough time for us to have made our first batch of JF-17s, having trained human resource and setup of production line specifically for just export orders and China with its industrial capacity would have made a production line or even would have started giving the Egyptians the production line to assemble it in their own country.

Nothing is clear so far, terms and conditions all will come to light after deal is finalized.

All we can do for now is, think of it as a good development for the JF program.

kamra production lines are geared at this time for air-frame assembly and production.

engines, avionics and other a/c suites are manufactured in china and fitted / assembled at kamra.

eventually 80% of the work will be done at kamra except for the engine which will either be russian or chinese.

 

[Arsalan]

moreover what i think is even more important then 50% share money comming to Pakistan is the acknowledgement we will get if are are able to export a fighter jet.
you know that veery well that there are some gaints controlling the international arms market and Pakistan if even produces same quality equipment with relatively lower price even then these gaints get the advantage of there tag they bear!
once we enter the market and prove our metal it will pave way for lots of other military equipmet that is excellent in quality and relatively low in price and thus have huge potential in countries that can not afford expensive hardware from eupore.
i really hope Pakistan do get the dice rolling and export a few PAC made plane. now this part is even more important then the share of money we will get. if the planes are made in china then we would only be getting money whereas if in a few years time we do export a few planes made by PAC then besides money we would more importantly be getting Acknowledgement!!!!!

i hope you guys understand my point and do agree with it,,


regards!

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

^^^^ Pakistan had a bad experience in selling K-8 alone because all the hardware comes from China.
Italy Spain and France: they have many joint productions and divide their share when exporting hardware.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Any idea when is the deal suppose to get finalised or reach final negotiations ?

 

[SBD-3]

Soon every nation who fly mig21 will replace them with JF-17 , so many willing to buy in Africa, but there should be one window operation and all the deals should be made trough China and profit should be 50 / 50 among Pakistan and China.

I hate this over-optimisim.....

 

[Comet]

My Question is still not answered. What technology are we talking about in case on ToT?
We don't build engines, avionics etc. Then what kind of technology are we going to transfer(if any)?
Another question: Since engines are from Russia, are we allowed to sell these to a third party or do they have to talk to Russian themselves for engines? How is this done?

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

I hate this over-optimisim.....

What is the alternative for poor countries flying over due replaceable Migs 21s in Africa and Asia ? you tell me, and why is China importing so many RD-93 from Russia ?