Egypt is getting South korean Frigates

[Penguin]

I think Turkey is the only one where there is tension between the two governments and there might be some hidden concerns, but there's no issue with Israel's small navy since we're at peace with them and Morocco and Greece are allies whom we exercise together with. Algeria is of no significant concern whatsoever.

Algeria has 6 good submarines, a pair of modern, well armed MEKO A200, 3 like C28A, 3 modernized Koni, 3 modernized Nanuchka class and 4 modernized Djebel Chenoua, plus a modern, well armed LPD. Nothing to pull up your nose for!

I didn't say there was any bad blood between Morocco, Algeria and Egypt, I just considered the regional navies that are worth mentioning. And while the navy of Israel may be small, it is highly effective. And it too is moving to larger ships and more off shore oriented operations.

 

[Ceylal]

Algeria has 6 good submarines, a pair of modern, well armed MEKO A200, 3 like C28A, 3 modernized Koni, 3 modernized Nanuchka class and 4 modernized Djebel Chenoua, plus a modern, well armed LPD. Nothing to pull up your nose for!

I didn't say there was any bad blood between Morocco, Algeria and Egypt, I just considered the regional navies that are worth mentioning. And while the navy of Israel may be small, it is highly effective. And it too is moving to larger ships and more off shore oriented operations.

Comparing the empty tubs that Egypt has along with old vessel that make up the Egyptian navy, Algeria's with fishermen boats can fend off the Egypt navy...@gomig21
The last Algerian army war game mejd 2017, was a warning to the Sunni NATO, and to Egypt especially if her troops move into Lybia.

 

[Gomig-21]

Nothing to pull up your nose for!

lol. If I understand the Dutch flavor in that saying, it's the same as "thumbing your nose at..."?
If so, then no, I don't do that and actually quite the opposite. While the Algerian navy was getting bashed on another thread, it was yours truly who stepped in in support of objectivity and showed the Algerian navy to be pretty respectable, considering the territorial waters it needs to defend. But taking that into account, it's not nearly enough to adequately protect Algeria's coasts.

When I said "no significant concern," the emphasis was on 'concern.' I'm sure the Egyptian brass is very aware of all the players in the region and the level of attention and influence with regards to strategic balance and potential adversarial threats, but the bulk of its attention is more specific to the defense of its assets than being on par with others in the region. And IMO, I think it would be almost inconsequential when it comes to Algeria. There's a historic ally-ship that exists between the two countries so it would be more of a cooperative relationship, despite the occasional, infamous "Arab" squabble we tend to have with one another. But given the geopolitical climate and the way things can change in a minute, sure, there would be a need to pay attention to what they're doing, but I think that's as far as it goes.

Egypt is also forming strong support in form of allies. You look at the navy and it's working with the US, of course, but Italy, Greece and France. There is strength in that as well.

Algeria has 6 good submarines, a pair of modern, well armed MEKO A200, 3 like C28A, 3 modernized Koni, 3 modernized Nanuchka class and 4 modernized Djebel Chenoua, plus a modern, well armed LPD.

Sure, no argument there.

I like the sailboat El-Mellah (and I'm not being sarcastic about that). I think it's use as a tool for teaching sailors the fundamentals of seamanship in it's most traditional sense is an outstanding school of thought. I'm a boater myself so I tend to appreciate these things.

El-Mellah

I didn't say there was any bad blood between Morocco, Algeria and Egypt, I just considered the regional navies that are worth mentioning. And while the navy of Israel may be small, it is highly effective. And it too is moving to larger ships and more off shore oriented operations.

I understood what you meant. My point was that the concern for the Egyptian navy is not as influenced by these others with perhaps the exception of Turkey because of the political tension that currently exists. But even that has a limit to as far as the specific needs of Egypt itself. The navy's primary concerns are the Suez Canal, coastal boarder security and fast reaction missions. The Med. gas fields and the proliferation of refugees from Libya with potential terrorism ties into that. There's also recent cooperation with NATO wrt to the specific refugee problem and Egypt's elevating its role in curbing these people trying to flee into Europe.

Egypt's naval helicopter fleet and support.
- 8 E-2C Hawkeye AEWC
- 13 SH-2G Super Seasprite Electronic/Navigation Suite upgraded to Egyptian Navy requirements.
- 4 Sea King Commando dedicated EW
- 2 Sea King ASW
- 9 SA-342 Gazelle Maritime patrol
- 2 Agusta Westaland AW-139 SAR
- 36 Ka-52 Katran naval attack helos (just ordered a few weeks ago)

 

[Frogman]

Just so some don't set themselves up for a fall what we're actually getting from sources is that SK is going to gift Egypt Pohang Class corvettes. Nothing about a purchase of frigates thus far. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[SALMAN F]

Mabrock to masr
Tahya masr

 

[The SC]

No. Egypt faces obscolescence of many of its main naval units i.e. ex-USN Knox class frigates (2) and ex-Chinese Jianghu class frigates (2) and Harpoon-equipped Romeo class submarines. Their ex-USN Perry class frigates (4) and ex-Spanish Descubierta corvettes (2) won't last forever either.

Syria, Libya and Yemen never have had any navy to speak of. Hence, this is irrelevant in the context Egyptian naval modernization. Besides Israeli naval capability, one [Egypt] needs to consider the increased naval strength of Morocco and Algeria, developments in the Saudi navy and, last but not least, the modernization of Turkish naval forces.

The discussion you are responding to, was about all the recent Egyptian weapons procurements.. I was answering @Gomig-21..
What you are saying is true concerning the Egyptian Navy.. but my answer was on a wider topic.. So no need to always say "no" to start with, that is a sign of argumentative people, I think you are better than that.. read the posts carefully next before answering..

True. Depends on who was their adversary though. The results would still have been the same if they were fighting a superior military.

The only superior military would be the US or the latter backing its proxy Usrael.. which is the same..

lol. If I understand the Dutch flavor in that saying, it's the same as "thumbing your nose at..."?
If so, then no, I don't do that and actually quite the opposite. While the Algerian navy was getting bashed on another thread, it was yours truly who stepped in in support of objectivity and showed the Algerian navy to be pretty respectable, considering the territorial waters it needs to defend. But taking that into account, it's not nearly enough to adequately protect Algeria's coasts.

When I said "no significant concern," the emphasis was on 'concern.' I'm sure the Egyptian brass is very aware of all the players in the region and the level of attention and influence with regards to strategic balance and potential adversarial threats, but the bulk of its attention is more specific to the defense of its assets than being on par with others in the region. And IMO, I think it would be almost inconsequential when it comes to Algeria. There's a historic ally-ship that exists between the two countries so it would be more of a cooperative relationship, despite the occasional, infamous "Arab" squabble we tend to have with one another. But given the geopolitical climate and the way things can change in a minute, sure, there would be a need to pay attention to what they're doing, but I think that's as far as it goes.

Egypt is also forming strong support in form of allies. You look at the navy and it's working with the US, of course, but Italy, Greece and France. There is strength in that as well.



Sure, no argument there.

I like the sailboat El-Mellah (and I'm not being sarcastic about that). I think it's use as a tool for teaching sailors the fundamentals of seamanship in it's most traditional sense is an outstanding school of thought. I'm a boater myself so I tend to appreciate these things.

El-Mellah

I understood what you meant. My point was that the concern for the Egyptian navy is not as influenced by these others with perhaps the exception of Turkey because of the political tension that currently exists. But even that has a limit to as far as the specific needs of Egypt itself. The navy's primary concerns are the Suez Canal, coastal boarder security and fast reaction missions. The Med. gas fields and the proliferation of refugees from Libya with potential terrorism ties into that. There's also recent cooperation with NATO wrt to the specific refugee problem and Egypt's elevating its role in curbing these people trying to flee into Europe.

Egypt's naval helicopter fleet and support.
- 8 E-2C Hawkeye AEWC
- 13 SH-2G Super Seasprite Electronic/Navigation Suite upgraded to Egyptian Navy requirements.
- 4 Sea King Commando dedicated EW
- 2 Sea King ASW
- 9 SA-342 Gazelle Maritime patrol
- 2 Agusta Westaland AW-139 SAR
- 36 Ka-52 Katran naval attack helos (just ordered a few weeks ago)

There is the Molina class that was added, most likely more will follow, also Egypt was negotiating for four of the latest Russian diesel-electric kilo class submarines for a while now..The perry class are scheduled for the latest upgrades so they won't be shelved anytime soon..And very important to note, Egypt had * submarines, only 4 of which went out of service, the other modernised subs will take a secondary role once the 4 type 209s are delivered, and then most likely we will see the Kilo class making their way into the Egyptian navy..

Just so some don't set themselves up for a fall what we're actually getting from sources is that SK is going to gift Egypt Pohang Class corvettes. Nothing about a purchase of frigates thus far. Hope I'm wrong though.

The Egyptian Admiral said a frigate was coming and Egyptians sailors and officers were getting trained in South Korea to come back with it..So let's wait and see..

 

[Penguin]

Just so some don't set themselves up for a fall what we're actually getting from sources is that SK is going to gift Egypt Pohang Class corvettes. Nothing about a purchase of frigates thus far. Hope I'm wrong though.

Completed: 24
Active: 16
Lost: 1 (Sunk: Cheonan)
Retired: 7, of which

• 1 museum ship in Pohang city)
• 1 transferred to Vietnam People's Navy as HQ-18
  
• 1 transferred to Peruvian Navy as BAP Ferré

Available stock of decommissioned ships of class: 4

It us a goodwill gesture, to gift ships that need to be disposed of anyway. Perhaps it may help convince Egypt to buy new ships from SK eventually, or it may be e.g. a deal sweetener for the KD-1 sale. Similarly, in 2011, South Korea donated a recently retired Donghae-class corvette to Colombia as part of a drive to boost arms exports to the South American region.

 

[Penguin]

The discussion you are responding to, was about all the recent Egyptian weapons procurements.. I was answering @Gomig-21..
What you are saying is true concerning the Egyptian Navy.. but my answer was on a wider topic.. So no need to always say "no" to start with, that is a sign of argumentative people, I think you are better than that.. read the posts carefully next before answering..

There is the Molina class that was added, most likely more will follow, also Egypt was negotiating for four of the latest Russian diesel-electric kilo class submarines for a while now..The perry class are scheduled for the latest upgrades so they won't be shelved anytime soon..And very important to note, Egypt had * submarines, only 4 of which went out of service, the other modernised subs will take a secondary role once the 4 type 209s are delivered, and then most likely we will see the Kilo class making their way into the Egyptian navy..

Mid-2009 [i.e. before the Type 209 acquisition of 2012] there were unconfirmed reports that Egypt might buy a pair of Project 636/Kilo-class submarines from Russia, but these initiatives were stalled due to a lack of funding.
http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/content/egypts-new-modern-submarine-fleet

Besides new 209s and old Chinese Romeo's, what submarines did the Egyptian navy have? All I'm aware of is that there were once 4 old Soviet Project 633 Romeo's, and the last 2 of these retired the fleet 1995, by which time the newer Chinese Type 033 Romeo's had been modernized.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/egypt/navy-equipment.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo-class_submarine
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/633-list.htm

Before that, Egypt has 7 Soviet project 613 Whiskey class subs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey-class_submarine
http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/russia-submarine-import-and-export-behavior/

Is there ANYTHING supporting the notion that the Egyptian navy TODAY has expressed any interest in acquiring Kilo class submarines from Russia?

 

[The SC]

Mid-2009 [i.e. before the Type 209 acquisition of 2012] there were unconfirmed reports that Egypt might buy a pair of Project 636/Kilo-class submarines from Russia, but these initiatives were stalled due to a lack of funding.
http://www.israeldefense.co.il/en/content/egypts-new-modern-submarine-fleet

Besides new 209s and old Chinese Romeo's, what submarines did the Egyptian navy have? All I'm aware of is that there were once 4 old Soviet Project 633 Romeo's, and the last 2 of these retired the fleet 1995, by which time the newer Chinese Type 033 Romeo's had been modernized.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/egypt/navy-equipment.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo-class_submarine
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/633-list.htm

Before that, Egypt has 7 Soviet project 613 Whiskey class subs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey-class_submarine
http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/russia-submarine-import-and-export-behavior/

Is there ANYTHING supporting the notion that the Egyptian navy TODAY has expressed any interest in acquiring Kilo class submarines from Russia?

Yes, the negotiations I was talking about were taking place at the same time as the Type 209, and they were for four Kilo class subs from Russia.. in any case Egypt will need more than 4 Type 209 modern submarines. if not the Kilo class then it might be Chinese or as the recent deals will SK, they might be South Korean Subs, since they make their own version of the Type 209 and, the type 214 and starting their own designs..With so many options plus the Type 214 possibility from Germany, Egyptian navy has some leverage in choosing its future submarines, since it will need 12 modern subs to be efficient in protecting all its shores.. the last four will replace the modernized Chinese Romeos and will play the same coastal protection role..

 

[Penguin]

Yes, the negotiations I was talking about were taking place at the same time as the Type 209, and they were for four Kilo class subs from Russia.. in any case Egypt will need more than 4 Type 209 modern submarines. if not the Kilo class then it might be Chinese or as the recent deals will SK, they might be South Korean Subs, since they make their own version of the Type 209 and, the type 214 and starting their own designs..With so many options plus the Type 214 possibility from Germany, Egyptian navy has some leverage in choosing its future submarines, since it will need 12 modern subs to be efficient in protecting all its shores.. the last four will replace the modernized Chinese Romeos and will play the same coastal protection role..

So, there is nothing current.

 

[The SC]

So, there is nothing current.

Well, most of Egypt-Russia deals are kept in the dark till they are almost finalized.. this is what we are accustomed to now.. they always start with talks about a system, sometimes denial followed by confirmation come in the middle and then some more talks, followed by rumours.. and so on, till we hear that a final deal was signed and the delivery dates are so and so.. the talks about the Russian subs were conducted at the same time as the Mig-35s..

 

[MultaniGuy]

Good for Egypt. Congratulations to Egypt.

 

[Penguin]

Well, most of Egypt-Russia deals are kept in the dark till they are almost finalized.. this is what we are accustomed to now.. they always start with talks about a system, sometimes denial followed by confirmation come in the middle and then some more talks, followed by rumours.. and so on, till we hear that a final deal was signed and the delivery dates are so and so.. the talks about the Russian subs were conducted at the same time as the Mig-35s..

So, as I said, nothing current. Current is only aviation and air defence systems. Not naval assets, let alone submarines.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypts-sisi-negotiates-arms-deal-in-russia/
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/en/originals/2017/06/egypt-russia-commong-ground-meeting-lavrov.html

– Egypt ?During the eighties, the Egyptian Navy acquired ten Romeo-class submarines out of which eight were functional. Among these, it acquired four from China and four from the former Soviet Union. In the year 1989, Egypt bought two submarines of Oberon-class from Britain.
http://gooddaystudy.com/submarine-classes-in-service-for-muslim-countries/

before that 10 Whiskey class.

 

[The SC]

So, as I said, nothing current. Current is only aviation and air defence systems. Not naval assets, let alone submarines.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egypts-sisi-negotiates-arms-deal-in-russia/
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/en/originals/2017/06/egypt-russia-commong-ground-meeting-lavrov.html

– Egypt ?During the eighties, the Egyptian Navy acquired ten Romeo-class submarines out of which eight were functional. Among these, it acquired four from China and four from the former Soviet Union. In the year 1989, Egypt bought two submarines of Oberon-class from Britain.
http://gooddaystudy.com/submarine-classes-in-service-for-muslim-countries/

before that 10 Whiskey class.

There are no Oberon class in Egypt as far as I know but 1 0r 2 Sava class.... every military announcement in Egypt comes suddenly , like the SK frigate now.. it is always when a done deal is reach and training on the systems is at its end.. I am not saying that the Kilo class are imminent, i just pointed out that there were serious talks concerning them.. but the choice is apparently wider..

 

[Ceylal]

While the Algerian navy was getting bashed on another thread, it was yours truly who stepped in in support of objectivity and showed the Algerian navy to be pretty respectable, considering the territorial waters it needs to defend. But taking that into account, it's not nearly enough to adequately protect Algeria's coasts.

Bashed! Be serious, if we take Turkey out the equation due to their Nato membership, there is only two navies in the South of the Med that are real capable..Israel and Algeria...Egypt has a lot catching up to do...By 2024, Algeria will add to its fleet, 2 SM to bring their number to 8, 6 tigr, 3 CAA, 2 Meko, 1 san Georgio

I like the sailboat El-Mellah (and I'm not being sarcastic about that). I think it's use as a tool for teaching sailors the fundamentals of seamanship in it's most traditional sense is an outstanding school of thought. I'm a boater myself so I tend to appreciate these things.

All the navies, at least the serious one have a sail boat to cadets and new recrew sea fearing...Remember the last incident with the US navy craft that end up in Iranian waters because their GPS quit functioning...and didn't know how to use compas, maps and sextant ,that the US navy quit teaching her sailors..After that incident they started again...

Egypt's naval helicopter fleet and support.
- 8 E-2C Hawkeye AEWC
- 13 SH-2G Super Seasprite Electronic/Navigation Suite upgraded to Egyptian Navy requirements.
- 4 Sea King Commando dedicated EW
- 2 Sea King ASW
- 9 SA-342 Gazelle Maritime patrol
- 2 Agusta Westaland AW-139 SAR
- 36 Ka-52 Katran naval attack helos (just ordered a few weeks ago)

All basic...nothing to brag about..and number doesn't count in modern warfare..its technology, integration,training, that something Egyptian army lacks, and Egyptian are having hard time to switch from heavy to small independant units ...
Algeria, just from Augusta-Westland ordered 100 helo of different type, most of them already delivered..without counting what Russia has delivered in Helicopters..and will deliver on new orders ...

Next time before you diss Algeria and her armed forces...Base your opinions on Israeli sources they know better...