Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[ELTurco]

Egypt massacre no longer an internal affair, Gül says

Turkey’s ambassador to Egypt, Hüseyin Avni Botsalı, speaks to reporters at İstanbul Atatürk Airport before flying to Ankara on Friday.


Turkish President Abdullah Gül has stated that the bloody military crackdown on supporters of deposed Egyptian leader Mohammed Morsi has gone beyond the internal affairs of Egypt, rejecting Egyptian accusations of Turkish interference in the country's domestic affairs.




“Turkey's warnings should be seen as reflecting a friend's warnings that emanate from feelings of sorrow and shock with a desire to help, not interference in another country's domestic affairs,” Gül said at the third summit meeting of the Cooperation Council of Turkic Speaking States in Azerbaijan's Qebele city.

Last Wednesday was the bloodiest day in decades in the Arab world's most populous nation. At least 638 people were killed, including 43 police officers, and nearly 4,000 were wounded, the Health Ministry said, in clashes that spread beyond Cairo to towns and cities around the country.

Egyptian security forces backed by armored cars and bulldozers moved to clear two sit-in camps of Morsi's supporters in Cairo's Rabaa al-Adawiya Square and Giza's Nahda Square, showering protesters with tear gas as the sound of gunfire rang out at both sites.

The move has not only sparked angry protests in provinces across the country, with deadly clashes being reported in several areas, but also received the harsh condemnation of Turkey.

Gül's response came after the Egyptian Foreign Ministry condemned the Turkish statements, saying they crossed the line and accusing Turkey of interference.

Turkey's strong criticism of the July 3 coup and this week's brutal crackdown on Morsi supporters has strained ties with the new Egyptian administration.

“Unfortunately, the death toll has started to become clear and is now approaching 600. This is unacceptable. The number of deaths remains this high only in wars. We strongly condemn these [incidents]. Even in wars, the loss of life is not at this rate. Using the military against the [Egyptian] nation cannot be accepted,” said Gül, calling on the international community to help the conflict-ridden Egypt to overcome the tumult.

Gül stated that it was of great importance to pull Egypt out of the current chaotic situation, saying everyone should help Egypt.

"Besides analyzing the case and expressing feelings, there is a third point to say, which is how the country should emerge from the incidents. In such an environment of chaos, there is a knocked-out-cold condition in Egypt. It's important to pull Egypt out of that position. In this respect, we and the international community should help the country," Gül said.

The Turkish president underlined that the main task belonged to the Egyptians. “If they [Egyptians] fail to read the situation in Egypt and don't protect their own country, it is hard to intervene from the outside. They need to pull Egypt out of it with common sense. Otherwise, the most significant country in the Middle East will get consumed by its people and its army,” added Gül.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan told a group of reporters that his position on Egypt is clear, adding that he supports democracy, and that democratic values in Egypt should be given back to the people.

Turkey, Egypt recall ambassadors

Turkey and Egypt recalled their ambassadors following Ankara's condemnation of the bloody crackdown by Egyptian security forces on supporters of ousted President Morsi. Turkey recalled its Ambassador to Egypt Huseyin Avni Botsalı for consultations.

While Turkish leaders kept up their criticisms of Egypt, calling the violence there a "shame for Islam and the Arab world," Botsali, who was summoned by Egypt's Foreign Ministry recently over the Turkish criticisms, arrived in Turkey on Friday for consultations. It was not clear when the ambassador would return to his post.

"It is hoped and wished that this suffering will not be repeated again. Egypt should immediately return to its democratic process, civilian administration and start recovering. This is what Turkey wishes,” said Botsalı, who replied to reporters' questions on his arrival at Istanbul's International Ataturk Airport.

Botsalı also urged Turkish citizens in Egypt to avoid making intercity travels, adding that Turkish citizens should not leave their homes and shops during the critical times.

Botsalı had already been reappointed to Sarajevo in January this year and his term in Cairo officially ended on June 30. The Turkish Foreign Ministry, however, asked the ambassador to stay in the country for a while longer due to the unrest.

Botsalı has been serving as the ambassador in Cairo for three-and-a-half years. His family has already left the country.

Turkey's Foreign Ministry has warned its nationals who are based in Egypt or set to travel to the country to avoid traveling on roads in the country.

Meanwhile, in remarks to the Turkish press before leaving to Cairo, the Egyptian ambassador in Ankara has stated that Turkish officials did not share their opinions with the current Egyptian administration on how the crisis in Egypt could be solved.

While emphasizing that Egypt has discussed the current political situation with many countries, Salaheldin stated that “Ankara did not share any plans with us [Egypt]. We learnt Turkey's opinion from newspapers.”

Egypt starts implementing accreditation for Turkish journalists

In the meantime, Egyptian authorities have started to implement a new procedure for Turkish journalists since Aug. 15. From that date, Turkish journalists should get accreditation and permission from Egyptian authorities, including the Intelligence Service, Interior Ministry and Military Intelligence Service, to enter Egypt to cover the incidents.


Egypt massacre no longer an internal affair, Gül says - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

Egypt cancels naval war games with Turkey

Turkish naval ships are seen in the Mediterranean sea.

Egypt has canceled naval military drills with Turkey after Ankara’s harsh criticism of the Arab nation’s violent crackdown on Muslim Brotherhood protesters that has killed more than 600.


The decision to cancel joint naval war games and the one within NATO came a day after Ankara announced that it is recalling its ambassador from Cairo and illustrated the rapidly deteriorating relations with Egypt, where spiraling violence prompted the government there to declare a nationwide state of emergency and a nighttime curfew.

The army on July 3 took power from Mohammed Morsi, a top Muslim Brotherhood official who became Egypt's first democratically elected leader a year ago after the ouster of long-time dictator Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt Independent, citing a report from Al-Masry Al-Youm, said Egyptian Foreign Ministry said in a written statement that it decided to cancel a joint naval exercise with Turkey entitled “Sea of Friendship,” which was scheduled to take place from 21 to 28 October 2013 in Turkey.

The ministry described Turkey’s criticism of Egypt’s crackdown on protesters as “blunt interference in Egyptian affairs, which run counter to the will of the Egyptian people.”

On Friday, however, Levent Gümrükçü, Turkish Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in his Twitter feed that Turkey conveyed to Egypt about its decision to cancel invitations to participate in the joint naval military exercise and another one within NATO.

It was not immediately clear which country cancelled the naval drills first.

http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=3729535F68F4D3A6FDA5997DCB1B34C6?newsId=323773

 

[islamrules]

@islamrules Do you think MB can win against the alliance of copts, liberal/secular and anti-MB Muslims, Army, Police etc.? This is no longer democracy, there is no democratic right of peaceful assembly, march and protesting and voicing ones opinion. Military is in power and they have declared emergency. People are getting shot and killed by the thousands and my heart goes out to all the victims and their families.

At this point, it has simply become two groups fighting for power. If it continues like this, it may turn out to be a civil war and MB may loose, because non-MB may blame the MB leaders for irresponsible decisions.

If MB has a winning strategy, please tell me what it is? Without a strategy and possibility of winning, MB may be loosing valuable workers in a futile struggle, who could be used in the future for a possible win.

There is no Copts or Shia in power here, like Syria. Egyptian polity is 90% Sunni Muslim. The liberal/secular, MB, anti-MB, they are artificial divisions. The more 90% Muslims will become divided, the worse it will become for Egypt.

The MB have a right cause but no strategies indeed n they make a lot of critical errors, just now for exemple Jihad Hadad their spokesman said that they should withdraw from Ramsis after 95 were killed there !!
But this has passed them , the rest of muslims are on board now, this is not the MB's revolution anymore. As for democracy I don't think they will ever have one, the way I c it is that the munafikines n kuffars inside n the west will never allow them calmly to have an islamic prosperous rich independent strong country .

 

[kalu_miah]

I think democracy has failed, muslims should go back to their roots, quran and sunna. Rejecting democracy. I believe many muslims have opened their eyes to this.

As u know, not all muslims supported Morsi, thinking democracy was not the way to go. And they we're right. Muslims are not allowed to rule trough democratic means...

But they are against the coup. This is not anymore about Morsi or MB, u don't see many morsi banners. But a popular uprising against an oppressive militairy coup.

So we will see two narratives:

Army is fighting "terrorism"

Muslims fighting for freedom against militairy coup. And perhaps "kuffars"

Democracy is a step by step process, you don't achieve it in one day or one year. It takes years of institution building and a track record of precedence, while the public become accustomed to them.

Muslims like people of any other religion can practice democracy. What makes you think Quran and Sunnah is against democracy?

If MB and butcher Army do not manage to trigger a civil war, the liberal/secular Muslims will come back to the streets to demand elections. The only way MB can beat the Army is by teaming up with liberal/secular Muslims and unite the 90% Muslim populations. The Copts, I think they are crazy and not sure if they have the best interest of Egypt at heart. They would not hesitate to support a military rule, because that will keep MB out of politics and power sharing. After what they have done in this Tamarod fiasco, they are now scared of reprisals.

 

[kalu_miah]

The MB have a right cause but no strategies indeed n they make a lot of critical errors, just now for exemple Jihad Hadad their spokesman said that they should withdraw from Ramsis after 95 were killed there !!
But this has passed them , the rest of muslims are on board now, this is not the MB's revolution anymore. As for democracy I don't think they will ever have one, the way I c it is that the munafikines n kuffars inside n the west will never allow them calmly to have an islamic prosperous rich independent strong country .

Brother, I appreciate your effort in posting all information you are posting. You are doing excellent work.

But the bold part above is exactly what I was talking about, actions without strategy is useless. There is lack of cool reasoning in the leadership, that is why the enemy is winning every time.

When you say the rest of the Muslims are on board, yes that is some progress. If you can unite most of the 90% Muslims, that will do the trick. The 10% Copts will always work for external enemy and sabotage the cause of Islam and Muslims. The blood of the thousand Shaheeds will be worth it, if the sympathy for them can bring the 90% Muslims together.

But this time, MB must make promises to rest of non-MB Muslims and keep those promises to have inclusive govt., specially for all Muslims. This coalition building needs to happen now, before making further moves against this murderous Army, which has become a tool of the enemy.

 

[hussain0216]

Agreed about the copts they are treacherous

But the so called secular liberal Muslims are worst, these people shouldn't even call themselves Muslims they are the biggest opponents of Muslims and implementation of islam


They have instigated along with the copts the military coup and have blood on their hands

Any Muslim let alone the Muslim brotherhood should never work with these snakes

 

[islamrules]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=188336628007516

 

[kalu_miah]

Agreed about the copts they are treacherous

But the so called secular liberal Muslims are worst, these people shouldn't even call themselves Muslims they are the biggest opponents of Muslims and implementation of islam

They have instigated along with the copts the military coup and have blood on their hands

Any Muslim let alone the Muslim brotherhood should never work with these snakes

There is a small minority who will never work with Muslim Brotherhood as they benefit from Military rule, but vast majority of non-MB Muslims will work with MB to defeat the Army, as long as MB pledges to work with them for a genuine power shared inclusive democracy.

Brother @islamrules, please tell us if the above is a valid statement.

 

[idune]

Democracy is a step by step process, you don't achieve it in one day or one year. It takes years of institution building and a track record of precedence, while the public become accustomed to them.

Democracy is a "step by step process" BUT it was Copts and secular minority joined forces with external and military power to overthrow elected govt. Copts and secular which did not and do not want democracy but want to impose their wish over majority population with gun power. You can not talk about democracy with copts and secular when they don't want it and destroyed it, period. Much like Bangladeshi secular thugs.

 

[Jihad_]

Video of protesters in the Cairo subway on Fri chanting for the downfall of the government.

 

[islamrules]

Poor Morsi he must be dead now

Sisi not only kills people he then besieges their dead bodies in the masjads !!

 

[Jihad_]

Wrong topic.

 

[kalu_miah]

Democracy is a "step by step process" BUT it was Copts and secular minority joined forces with external and military power to powers to overthrow elected govt. Copts and secular which did not and does not want democracy but wants to impose their wish over majority population. You can not talk about democracy with copts and secular when they dont want it and destroyed it, period. Much like Bangladeshi secular thugs.

Despite many similarities, the two countries are different. Yes Egypt has 10% Copts, like we have 9% Hindus and both are not loyal to the cause of 90% Muslims, that is similar. In both cases external forces are supporting the seculars and opposing the Islamists. But Bangladesh has a democratic tradition for at least 22 years. It was only in last 6 years that Awami League has tried to monopolize power and abolish democracy, whereas in Egypt democracy is only 1 year old. Also, Egypt's socio-economic conditions are better than Bangladesh. Though poor, Egypt has much higher GDP. So Egypt is much more ready to fight for their democratic rights than Bangladesh is.

As I said in an earlier post, the majority of non-MB Muslims in Egypt will work with MB, just like majority of Bangladeshi Muslims today will support and vote for BNP-Jamat alliance. In Bangladesh case, unfortunately, the vote will be rigged, so pro-India Awami League can win and Bangladeshi's reaction in that case we will have to wait and see. In Egypt case, I think a rigged election, like Mubarak era will be more difficult to pull off, that is my feeling, but I could be wrong. So best option for MB is still to work with other Muslims to bring democracy and a free and fair election. Choosing the path of violence would be OK if they could win, but I do not see how they can win, considering the elements stacked against them.

 

[hussain0216]

The egyptian elections will not be free and fair

The military will not allow it

Egypt has almost missed its chance at free and fair democracy

 

[islamrules]

There is a small minority who will never work with Muslim Brotherhood as they benefit from Military rule, but vast majority of non-MB Muslims will work with MB to defeat the Army, as long as MB pledges to work with them for a genuine power shared inclusive democracy.

Brother @islamrules, please tell us if the above is a valid statement.

I am affraid we r now way back Jan 25, the army will not sit down again like they did 2 years ago, they r out for blood, that is what they said n did, so the talk about the MB sharing power is so meaningless right now. they have to make it alive first .

 

[kalu_miah]

I am affraid we r now way back Jan 25, the army will not sit down again like they did 2 years ago, they r out for blood, that is what they said n did, so the talk about the MB sharing power is so meaningless right now. they have to make it alive first .

I see. So what you are saying is that even if MB supporters stay home and do not fight, the police and Army is going to round them up and kill as many as possible? If that is the case, then it is better to die fighting with arms than die protesting or in torture cells. If the Military wants a civil war, they will get one I guess.