East Pakistani Soldiers during Operation Searchlight

[Secur]

Dunno someone had recently posted on this thread & so I checked it out !

Phir aaj rozaa rakhaaa ?

At any rate I think the Bangladeshis themselves exhibit a deep sense of intellectual dishonesty when they make Pakistan (West Pakistan) & more so the Punjabi to be 'evil incarnate' out to get the poor Bengali !

Were there issues ? Yes...the Bengalis weren't a bunch of idiots who rose up in protest ! Yes there were issues....there were massive issues but they should be looked at in a particular context !

Right now I haven't the figures but, if I remember correctly, when I was reading Brian Coloughley's (can't spell it) Book on the Pakistan Army, he'd quoted figures about Bengali, Punjabi & Pukhtoon Representation in the British Indian Army & those figures, well before Pakistan, were deeply...deeply skewed in favor of the Punjabis & by Pukhtoons by a factor of 4 to 1 or something & if both the Punjabis & the Pukhtoons are to be added together that factor increase to closer 8-9 to 1 ! The Brits didn't trust the Bengalis after the 1857 War & the Riots in Bengal due to the Reversal of its Partition - How could Pakistan, a country suffering from grave misgovernance, nepotism & corruption, be expected to bring parity to an ethnicity that had suffered closer to a century of institutionalized disparity.

Furthermore I've read numerous times, from independent sources, how what became East-Pakistan was just a hinterland of Calcutta where all the Jute Mills & the Progress was concentrated around Calcutta & when Calcutta was gone there wasn't a single Jute Mill in all of East-Pakistan in '47 ! Thats even worse than the disparity between Interior Sindh & Karachi or the Southern most tip of Punjab & Lahore !

Did people truly believe that these problems would be wished away painlessly without hicups ? That somehow East-Pakistan would grow about 10 dozen Jute Mills, that the Centers of Learning & other Institutions that were lost to West-Bengal & more so Calcutta would pop up out of the ground ?

The Bengali-Urdu Controversy wasn't done in Good Faith Either - No other language made sense; no other language was impartial enough to be the National Language of the Country ! And they, despite, been given the right to have Bengali as their official language in the Province (as elucidated in the Quaid's speeches) still played the ethnic & linguistic card to the detriment of Pakistan's Unity ! Imagine if the Punjabis or the Baloch or the Pukhtoons had asked that their languages be made the National Language of the country by the same token ?

At the end they've still not recognized that whatever killings we did, their Mukhti Bahini & enraged Bengali Mobs weren't exactly kind & merciful to West-Pakistani Civilians & the Biharis there ! I've heard of personal accounts, I've met people, who've lost their entire families to these Mobs ! And they have the temerity of claiming the moral high ground ? On what basis ?

I was taken by surprise though . I mean the quoted post is more than a year old

Oh yeah !

To criticize thine self is a rare ability , it seems . After all , my dear countryman , we had hid the Hamoodur Rehman Commission report for ~30 years right ? Bangladeshis put all the blame on the West Pakistanis since they are taught that Punjab absolutely retained all the power in the Eastern Wing after the independence . Of course , nothing could be farther than the truth . But , mate , you cant change it since that is what they have been told since the beginning . I was just seeing a few posts here and I was amazed to look at the part where some posters said that ' Pakistanis traded Calcutta for Lahore ' , I do not even need to refute it , that is as absurd as it can get .

There were massive management and corruption issues but the truth is that Bengalis never felt like a part of United Pakistan , that is what I deduce from the literature on the Fall of Dhaka , what can the reason be ? Was it because of the geographical distance from the mainland or the social and cultural differences from the rest of Pakistan ? Adding the fuel to the fire was the nationalism , basing itself on extremely unnecessary things at times . Creating problems , where there were none . I still believe that those problems , issues and sense of neglect could have solved if the politicians from both the Pakistan were sincere and not trying to consolidate their own power . What harm was there , if Bhutto thought for the country and handed over power to Mujib so he could try to please the Bengalis ? What logic was there in saying that ' We are here , you are there ' ? History later proved him as inept in managing the country , Mujib would later be assassinated .

You are correct about the Bengali representation part in British Indian forces , I have read and heard the same about the Crown not trusting the people of Bengal , after the mutiny . Pakistan at least increased the representation of Bengalis in the army to a respectable level . The details about the grievances over low representation part and the efforts that were radically made to increase , can be found in the book ' Witness to Surrender ' .

East Pakistan wasn't a gold mine as the Bengalis would like to believe , the jute production part is exaggerated to a large extent though the exploitation of the West part is true to an extent . Furthermore every year , there were constant natural disasters in Bengal and a subsequent part of the resources of the country had to be diverted for that . Still , a lot of development took place , I remember some member from BD telling me that Arub Khan is praised in Bangladesh still .

No argument over the language part . There was nothing as impartial and representative of the Pakistan ideology .

No they will not . Despite the fact that the pro Pakistan Bengalis , Biharis and West Pakistanis were killed en masse in the Bangladesh under Mujib's defacto control before the Fall . Whole books can be written on the atrocities committed by Mukti Bahini , Mitro Bahini and common Bengalis . There were events in Dhaka grounds to punish pro Pakistan people and there are video records of that , on youtube . Chittagong massacres are a case study because the worst killing and maiming took place there . So if they do not want to recognize , why should the Pakistani politicians ? Where's this excessive self righteousness coming from , if I may ask ? There's no moral high ground anywhere , we have made mistakes but what can we do if our own citizens weren't loyal to their own country ?

 

[Secur]

A heavily armed Army ? You mean the few thousand who were distributed all over East-Pakistan because of a stupid policy to defend 'every inch' of East-Pakistan !

If Bangladeshis are demanding an apology for the massacres - Then be ready to give one in turn !

Yeah , after all , 55,000 regular armed forces soldiers who surrendered later are considered heavily armed ! Next , will be the 3 million people killed propaganda , war babies will be brought in .

Reciprocate in kind , but never give an unconditional apology !

 

[kalu_miah]

I will inject a little sectarian facts.

Muslim League leadership was dominated by Shia Nawab family of Dhaka. Jinnah was Shia, married to a Parsi. Yes he was secular, but so are many Shia, except when it comes to remaining clannish and helping their own kind. Jinnah's sponsor's were Shia for the project Pakistan. Many of them moved to both parts of Pakistan and became the 22 industrial families of Pakistan. Iskander Mirza (Sirajuddaula, Mir Jafar et al were all Shia). A good chunk of the so called "Bihari" were Shia. @Md Akmal is not a Bihari, I believe he is a Bengali, he can state his home district to confirm.

So Shia got an entrance to South Asia due to Humayun's defeat with Sher Shah and subsequent help he received from Safavi's in Iran. I believe the result was a disaster for the Muslim community in South Asia. The Shia became dominant in subsequent Mughal administration, from Mumtaj Mahal (of Taj Mahal fame) to Murshid Quli Khan, who moved the capital from Dhaka to Murshidabad. I believe they not only weakened the Mughal empire and saw its demise, they also collaborated with the British, like Mir Jafar, Ismaili Aga Khani's and Dhaka Nawab's and got fabulously wealthy as a result.

They were instrumental in creating Pakistan, thinking that Pakistan will remain their personal clan property to enjoy, but East Pakistan broke off, because they failed to foresee the result of their actions and eventually they lost Pakistan as well, when Bhutto was deposed by Zia. Yes Benazir Bhutto's mother is an Iranian Shia, so is Zardari family.

And Yahya Khan, the butcher, was a Qizilbash Shia, one of the most reviled group of people in Sunni Muslim history who helped establish the Safavi dynasty in present day Azerbaijan and then expand itself in Iran and then convert the largely Sunni population there to Shia by force.

It is a sordid history, Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's need to know it, because it is a hidden part many of us do not know about very clearly. Arab's have been dealing with the trecherous Shia for 1400 years. So Arab Sunni's know them and their ways much better. From Lebanon Civil War to post Saddam Iraq and now in Syria, the Shia Mafia with help from Russian Mafia are killing Sunni's.

Shia is the enemy within much more dangerous than any other enemy, because they claim to be part of us, but they are anything but.

Many posters in this forum are Shia, some cannot hide it well, but others will hide it well. And they will work to weaken unity of Sunni Muslim communities of the world. They will show off as secular when they are weak, but the moment they gain upper hand, they will show their true sectarian face.

As for Operation Searchlight, Pakistani's don't waste your time in these threads. It was a mistake done by whoever planned it, their wrong decision broke off Pakistan, as simple as that. So don't come here and blame Bangladeshi's or our forefathers for it, we did not plan Operation Searchlight, it was some of your brilliant generals headed by the Shia scum Yahya Khan in consultation with crypto Shia Bhutto (wife Nusrat Ispahani is Iranian Shia). They are the traitors to Pakistan, not us. Major Zia declared independence as a reaction to your brilliant Shia planned Operation Searchlight, on 26th March, 1971, after that day all persona non grata foreign combatants here in our land and newly declared country were fair game. Non-combatant Bihari's and others were killed and these were war crimes, just like Operation Searchlight was.

As before, I call for a new investigation to unearth all facts from all sides, so we can put to rest all the BS from all sides. Now no one has any facts that will stand scrutiny.

@asad71, your kind input needed here please, provided that you yourself are not Shia, hopefully. Please state your sect for the benefit of the majority Sunni community in Bangladesh.

 

[Zabaniyah]

I will inject a little sectarian facts.

Muslim League leadership was dominated by Shia Nawab family of Dhaka. Jinnah was Shia, married to a Parsi. Yes he was secular, but so are many Shia, except when it comes to remaining clannish and helping their own kind. Jinnah's sponsor's were Shia for the project Pakistan. Many of them moved to both parts of Pakistan and became the 22 industrial families of Pakistan. Iskander Mirza (Sirajuddaula, Mir Jafar et al were all Shia). A good chunk of the so called "Bihari" were Shia. @Md Akmal is not a Bihari, I believe he is a Bengali, he can state his home district to confirm.

So Shia got an entrance to South Asia due to Humayun's defeat with Sher Shah and subsequent help he received from Safavi's in Iran. I believe the result was a disaster for the Muslim community in South Asia. The Shia became dominant in subsequent Mughal administration, from Mumtaj Mahal (of Taj Mahal fame) to Murshid Quli Khan, who moved the capital from Dhaka to Murshidabad. I believe they not only weakened the Mughal empire and saw its demise, they also collaborated with the British, like Mir Jafar, Ismaili Aga Khani's and Dhaka Nawab's and got fabulously wealthy as a result.

They were instrumental in creating Pakistan, thinking that Pakistan will remain their personal clan property to enjoy, but East Pakistan broke off, because they failed to foresee the result of their actions and eventually they lost Pakistan as well, when Bhutto was deposed by Zia. Yes Bhutto's mother is an Iranian Shia, so is Zardari family.

And Yahya Khan, the butcher, was a Qizilbash Shia, one of the most reviled group of people in Sunni Muslim history who helped establish the Safavi dynasty in present day Azerbaijan and then expand itself in Iran and then convert the largely Sunni population there to Shia by force.

It is a sordid history, Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's need to know it, because it is a hidden part many of us do not know about very clearly. Arab's have been dealing with the trecherous Shia for 1400 years. So Arab Sunni's know them and their ways much better. From Lebanon Civil War to post Saddam Iraq and now in Syria, the Shia Mafia with help from Russian Mafia are killing Sunni's.

Shia is the enemy within much more dangerous than any other enemy, because they claim to be part of us, but they are anything but.

Many posters in this forum are Shia, some cannot hide it well, but others will hide it well. And they will work to weaken unity of Sunni Muslim communities of the world. They will show off as secular when they are weak, but the moment they gain upper hand, they will show their true sectarian face.

As for Operation Searchlight, Pakistani's don't waste your time in these threads. It was a mistake done by whoever planned it, their wrong decision broke off Pakistan, as simple as that. So don't come here and blame Bangladeshi's or our forefathers for it, we did not plan Operation Searchlight, it was some of your brilliant generals headed by the Shia scum Yahya Khan in consultation with crypto Shia Bhutto. They are the traitors to Pakistan, not us. Major Zia declared independence as a reaction to your brilliant Shia planned Operation Searchlight, on 26th March, 1971, after that day all persona non grata foreign combatants here in our land and newly declared country were fair game. Non-combatant Bihari's and others were killed and these were war crimes, just like Operation Searchlight was.

As before, I call for a new investigation to unearth all facts from all sides, so we can put to rest all the BS from all sides. Now no one has any facts that will stand scrutiny.

@asad71, your kind input needed here please, provided that you yourself are not Shia, hopefully. Please state your sect for the benefit of the majority Sunni community in Bangladesh.

^^^Holy cow......

Intriguing.....!

My parents tell me that such Shia-Sunni matters were never discussed back in those days. The concept is currently very alien in Bangladesh.

Interestingly, Pakistan's Special Forces did help instigate insurgencies in North East India during the 1960's. Guess that didn't workout as planned; let alone take security precautions in advance with regards to East Pakistan in light of the matter.

Another thing that baffles me is that how on earth did the Special Frontier Force (SFF) conduct SF operations and intelligence with such brutal efficiency?

BTW @Md Akmal

is from Northern Bangladesh.

 

[asad71]

Interesting subject.I shall comeback with my input. Like all Bengalee Muslims I am a Sunni which I had realized only when I was 11 and had to fill-up a form for inter-wing passport. I had not known there were other sects in Islam.

 

[Dillinger]

I will inject a little sectarian facts.

Muslim League leadership was dominated by Shia Nawab family of Dhaka. Jinnah was Shia, married to a Parsi. Yes he was secular, but so are many Shia, except when it comes to remaining clannish and helping their own kind. Jinnah's sponsor's were Shia for the project Pakistan. Many of them moved to both parts of Pakistan and became the 22 industrial families of Pakistan. Iskander Mirza (Sirajuddaula, Mir Jafar et al were all Shia). A good chunk of the so called "Bihari" were Shia. @Md Akmal is not a Bihari, I believe he is a Bengali, he can state his home district to confirm.

So Shia got an entrance to South Asia due to Humayun's defeat with Sher Shah and subsequent help he received from Safavi's in Iran. I believe the result was a disaster for the Muslim community in South Asia. The Shia became dominant in subsequent Mughal administration, from Mumtaj Mahal (of Taj Mahal fame) to Murshid Quli Khan, who moved the capital from Dhaka to Murshidabad. I believe they not only weakened the Mughal empire and saw its demise, they also collaborated with the British, like Mir Jafar, Ismaili Aga Khani's and Dhaka Nawab's and got fabulously wealthy as a result.

They were instrumental in creating Pakistan, thinking that Pakistan will remain their personal clan property to enjoy, but East Pakistan broke off, because they failed to foresee the result of their actions and eventually they lost Pakistan as well, when Bhutto was deposed by Zia. Yes Benazir Bhutto's mother is an Iranian Shia, so is Zardari family.

And Yahya Khan, the butcher, was a Qizilbash Shia, one of the most reviled group of people in Sunni Muslim history who helped establish the Safavi dynasty in present day Azerbaijan and then expand itself in Iran and then convert the largely Sunni population there to Shia by force.

It is a sordid history, Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's need to know it, because it is a hidden part many of us do not know about very clearly. Arab's have been dealing with the trecherous Shia for 1400 years. So Arab Sunni's know them and their ways much better. From Lebanon Civil War to post Saddam Iraq and now in Syria, the Shia Mafia with help from Russian Mafia are killing Sunni's.

Shia is the enemy within much more dangerous than any other enemy, because they claim to be part of us, but they are anything but.

Many posters in this forum are Shia, some cannot hide it well, but others will hide it well. And they will work to weaken unity of Sunni Muslim communities of the world. They will show off as secular when they are weak, but the moment they gain upper hand, they will show their true sectarian face.

As for Operation Searchlight, Pakistani's don't waste your time in these threads. It was a mistake done by whoever planned it, their wrong decision broke off Pakistan, as simple as that. So don't come here and blame Bangladeshi's or our forefathers for it, we did not plan Operation Searchlight, it was some of your brilliant generals headed by the Shia scum Yahya Khan in consultation with crypto Shia Bhutto (wife Nusrat Ispahani is Iranian Shia). They are the traitors to Pakistan, not us. Major Zia declared independence as a reaction to your brilliant Shia planned Operation Searchlight, on 26th March, 1971, after that day all persona non grata foreign combatants here in our land and newly declared country were fair game. Non-combatant Bihari's and others were killed and these were war crimes, just like Operation Searchlight was.

As before, I call for a new investigation to unearth all facts from all sides, so we can put to rest all the BS from all sides. Now no one has any facts that will stand scrutiny.

@asad71, your kind input needed here please, provided that you yourself are not Shia, hopefully. Please state your sect for the benefit of the majority Sunni community in Bangladesh.

@Hyperion @Secur @Armstrong Did you folks try to infiltrate BD with LeJ operatives or something back in the day?

 

[Armstrong]

Oi @Secur - What the foOk did I just read !

If labels are to be used - I wonder why the Shia, Jinnah told everyone, with a sectarian angle, to foOk off ? Why the Nawab of Mahmoodabad got his hopes crushed ? And why Jinnah held Iqbal (a Sunni) in extremely high regard especially when Iqbal wasn't exactly talking about Music & Arts !

@Hyperion @Secur @Armstrong Did you folks try to infiltrate BD with LeJ operatives or something back in the day?

I've been thinking the same thing ! I've always wondered how some of the more, shall I say, enthusiastic Muslims (both Sunnis & Shias) are found more in the West than here in the East; I've always thought that some of the better things about Western Civilization, like religious impartiality, pluralism, rationality & justice, amongst other things, would rub-off a person who has spent time there - Apparently not !

 

[Armstrong]

Interesting subject.I shall comeback with my input. Like all Bengalee Muslims I am a Sunni which I had realized only when I was 11 and had to fill-up a form for inter-wing passport. I had not known there were other sects in Islam.

If Labels are to be placed, I'm a Sunni too but I didn't know one had to 'mention' that anywhere !

I can't recall any Official Document of mine mentioning my 'sect' !

Thats said, if it happened, in a United Pakistan - Shouldn't have happened !

By-the-way I too was introduced to the notion of there being sects in Islam around the same age when I heard things I'd never heard before - Names like Zuljana, Zulfiqar, Imam-e-Ali & most importantly Shia & Sunni was something that were completely new to me !

I feel that its a grave tragedy that there are those of us who'd teach this distinction to their children at such a young age - I'm glad that your & my parents didn't...so you have my respect & admiration for your Parents !

 

[kalu_miah]

^^^Holy cow......

Intriguing.....!

My parents tell me that such Shia-Sunni matters were never discussed back in those days. The concept is currently very alien in Bangladesh.

Interestingly, Pakistan's Special Forces did help instigate insurgencies in North East India during the 1960's. Guess that didn't workout as planned; let alone take security precautions in advance with regards to East Pakistan in light of the matter.

Another thing that baffles me is that how on earth did the Special Frontier Force (SFF) conduct SF operations and intelligence with such brutal efficiency?

BTW @Md Akmal

is from Northern Bangladesh.

Such Shia Sunni matters were not spoken of, because Bangladesh, even after being briefly ruled by Shia Nawab's of Bengal (not to be confused with Kashmiri Shia leather trader turned Zamindar Dhaka Nawabs), Shia's never became a significant community. We know them by different names, such as Aga Khani, Ismaili and very few are originally Bengalis or have deep roots in Bengal. In total there are around 50,000 or so Shia in Bangladesh, I think not counting the Bihari's. Not sure how many of the stranded Bihari's are Shia.

Shia's are simply not a factor in Bangladesh because of their small number, I think, except many of them are wealthy and have good business and personal network, like the Jews and Shia in rest of the world. Minorities always have a way to compensate for their lack of numerical strength.

But we need to care, because it seems majority Shia countries of the world will have no possibility of becoming countries with strong relationship with Bangladesh, essentially a rare 100% Sunni country. Their main interest is to claim brotherhood, gain economic and other benefit and try to convert to Shiism. They tried to convert many in Indonesia, a country of weak Muslims, and many converted Shia faced massacres by the Indonesian Army even, if I remember correctly.

And there is Shia-Sunni conflict ongoing in Mid-east, I think we should take side and be on the side of our brother Sunni's, who have always helped us and will help us in the future. If needed, we should send people to even fight in Syria under moderate FSA. That should be a good training for Bangladeshi's, so they can face the resident Hindutva terrorists we have, when they get back.

As for SFF, the 10,000 Tibetan force under RAW, created by general Uban Singh, the same guy who created Mujib Bahini, led by Tofael and few others, not sure how this is related to this thread. But Tibetans are not Indians, they are "brutal and efficient", they get the job done, given the right tools and logistics.

ISI and Chinese effort to destabilize the NE states was a good effort. This was of course a big motivation for India to help us with independence. The geography and demographics is such that there is always potential for trouble there for India. Burma, China and Bangladesh are the 3 border countries of NE states, with 14 mile chicken neck as connection to "mainland" India. Bangladesh will have to remain neutral, but situation in Burma and China and to some extent ASEAN integration will determine future of this area. Creation of Bangladesh and Burmese instability and backwardness will only be temporary respite for India in this area. Things will remain in flux for a long time to come for this area.

 

[mb444]

I will inject a little sectarian facts.

Muslim League leadership was dominated by Shia Nawab family of Dhaka. Jinnah was Shia, married to a Parsi. Yes he was secular, but so are many Shia, except when it comes to remaining clannish and helping their own kind. Jinnah's sponsor's were Shia for the project Pakistan. Many of them moved to both parts of Pakistan and became the 22 industrial families of Pakistan. Iskander Mirza (Sirajuddaula, Mir Jafar et al were all Shia). A good chunk of the so called "Bihari" were Shia. @Md Akmal is not a Bihari, I believe he is a Bengali, he can state his home district to confirm.

So Shia got an entrance to South Asia due to Humayun's defeat with Sher Shah and subsequent help he received from Safavi's in Iran. I believe the result was a disaster for the Muslim community in South Asia. The Shia became dominant in subsequent Mughal administration, from Mumtaj Mahal (of Taj Mahal fame) to Murshid Quli Khan, who moved the capital from Dhaka to Murshidabad. I believe they not only weakened the Mughal empire and saw its demise, they also collaborated with the British, like Mir Jafar, Ismaili Aga Khani's and Dhaka Nawab's and got fabulously wealthy as a result.

They were instrumental in creating Pakistan, thinking that Pakistan will remain their personal clan property to enjoy, but East Pakistan broke off, because they failed to foresee the result of their actions and eventually they lost Pakistan as well, when Bhutto was deposed by Zia. Yes Benazir Bhutto's mother is an Iranian Shia, so is Zardari family.

And Yahya Khan, the butcher, was a Qizilbash Shia, one of the most reviled group of people in Sunni Muslim history who helped establish the Safavi dynasty in present day Azerbaijan and then expand itself in Iran and then convert the largely Sunni population there to Shia by force.

It is a sordid history, Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's need to know it, because it is a hidden part many of us do not know about very clearly. Arab's have been dealing with the trecherous Shia for 1400 years. So Arab Sunni's know them and their ways much better. From Lebanon Civil War to post Saddam Iraq and now in Syria, the Shia Mafia with help from Russian Mafia are killing Sunni's.

Shia is the enemy within much more dangerous than any other enemy, because they claim to be part of us, but they are anything but.

Many posters in this forum are Shia, some cannot hide it well, but others will hide it well. And they will work to weaken unity of Sunni Muslim communities of the world. They will show off as secular when they are weak, but the moment they gain upper hand, they will show their true sectarian face.

As for Operation Searchlight, Pakistani's don't waste your time in these threads. It was a mistake done by whoever planned it, their wrong decision broke off Pakistan, as simple as that. So don't come here and blame Bangladeshi's or our forefathers for it, we did not plan Operation Searchlight, it was some of your brilliant generals headed by the Shia scum Yahya Khan in consultation with crypto Shia Bhutto (wife Nusrat Ispahani is Iranian Shia). They are the traitors to Pakistan, not us. Major Zia declared independence as a reaction to your brilliant Shia planned Operation Searchlight, on 26th March, 1971, after that day all persona non grata foreign combatants here in our land and newly declared country were fair game. Non-combatant Bihari's and others were killed and these were war crimes, just like Operation Searchlight was.

As before, I call for a new investigation to unearth all facts from all sides, so we can put to rest all the BS from all sides. Now no one has any facts that will stand scrutiny.

@asad71, your kind input needed here please, provided that you yourself are not Shia, hopefully. Please state your sect for the benefit of the majority Sunni community in Bangladesh.

An interesting perspective that needs further research. However I do not believe Shia Sunni issue was the cause of 1971.

The nawabs of Dhaka were Sunni, although the khawajas bought the title.

As ones sect is being bought up, I am hanafi but my family were Shia a few generation ago. Similar to Asad I was unaware of Shias as a separate entity until I grew up.

 

[kalu_miah]

If Labels are to be placed, I'm a Sunni too but I didn't know one had to 'mention' that anywhere !

I can't recall any Official Document of mine mentioning my 'sect' !

Thats said, if it happened, in a United Pakistan - Shouldn't have happened !

By-the-way I too was introduced to the notion of there being sects in Islam around the same age when I heard things I'd never heard before - Names like Zuljana, Zulfiqar, Imam-e-Ali & most importantly Shia & Sunni was something that were completely new to me !

I feel that its a grave tragedy that there are those of us who'd teach this distinction to their children at such a young age - I'm glad that your & my parents didn't...so you have my respect & admiration for your Parents !

We live and learn. This is exactly what my Lebanese Sunni Muslim friend told me:

1. When the Shia was low in number, they knew their place and kept at the back side of mosque, they did not have much Shia mosque's then
2. Imam's instructed them to have kids and many families had 10 or more, 12-13 kids were common
3. When the Shia became dominant at around the long civil war, Shia's were killing Sunni's and taking their property. My friend was abducted and almost killed for insulting Shia religion. Shia's asked Sunni's to drop their car keys from balcony, if they did not, they were shot and killed.
4. Shia's believe that all Sunni's are heretics and blasphemous and will go to hell, so their life and property is fair game, if they do not convert. Taqiya is used to hide all these core beliefs.

Situation in Lebanon, Iraq and Syria can be used as examples.

And my Lebanese Sunni friend is the son of a Phd professor, and he hates Arab Monarchs and considers the Salafi's as deviants. So this Shia Sunni conflict is older than Salafi creed that first got started with Ibn Taymiyyah. He openly says that he does not consider the Shia's as Muslims, which I think is going too far, as it needs the consensus of the entire Sunni Muslim community to reach that kind of decision.

 

[mb444]

Kali miah,

Bro are you ok? Is roja getting to you. You are mixing up too many things...

 

[Armstrong]

Kali miah,

Bro are you ok? Is roja getting to you. You are mixing up too many things...

For once I agree with you !

 

[LaBong]

Dhaka Nawabs are not Shia, neither are they related to Nawabs of Murshidabad. Dhaka Nawabs were Kashmiri traders who made it big in animal skin import. They were conferred Nabwab title by British for their loyalty and heavy paycheck but end of the day they were mainly glorified landlord like Bhaowal Raja.

 

[Armstrong]

We live and learn. This is exactly what my Lebanese Sunni Muslim friend told me:

1. When the Shia was low in number, they knew their place and kept at the back side of mosque, they did not have much Shia mosque's then
2. Imam's instructed them to have kids and many families had 10 or more, 12-13 kids were common
3. When the Shia became dominant at around the long civil war, Shia's were killing Sunni's and taking their property. My friend was abducted and almost killed for insulting Shia religion. Shia's asked Sunni's to drop their car keys from balcony, if they did not, they were shot and killed.
4. Shia's believe that all Sunni's are heretics and blasphemous and will go to hell, so their life and property is fair game, if they do not convert. Taqiya is used to hide all these core beliefs.

Situation in Lebanon, Iraq and Syria can be used as examples.

And my Lebanese Sunni friend is the son of a Phd professor, and he hates Arab Monarchs and considers the Salafi's as deviants. So this Shia Sunni conflict is older than Salafi creed that first got started with Ibn Taymiyyah. He openly says that he does not consider the Shia's as Muslims, which I think is going too far, as it needs the consensus of the entire Sunni Muslim community to reach that kind of decision.

Kalu Bhai, you would forgive me if I don't want to get into this Sunni-Shia things; its already destroyed my country...I don't want more of that !