EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[Parashuram1]

1000+ Airplanes in Pakistan Airforce !! Now 2010 ... not 2020 ...

Over 30 new aircraft projects underway for new fighters including

2 Stealth Projects , 1 UAV stealth !!!, and FUTURE BOMBER PROJECTS ...

Is this based on some solid claim by your defense ministry or is it the usual exaggeration that is normally seen in your post? Please back up your claims with sources. Currently, your economy is in no condition to maintain a 1,000 aircraft air force.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost your country to just operate and maintain that size of aircraft fleet even if you manage to get it free from somewhere. Please don't make castles in the air and if there are indeed castles we the international audience would be really interested to know a valid official source.

Regarding the highlighted part, No country till date has had 30 aircraft projects underway.. Not even United States with an economy more than 50 times yours and not even a Soviet Union with the most heavily-armed superpower in the history of mankind.

Stop producing gasbag if you don't have a source backing your claim of "30 aircraft projects".

By 2020, India will have
5 Gen -
At least 20 PAKFA

4.5 Gen -
280 Sukhoi 30mki.
200 MMRCA
80 Tejas

4 Gen -

100 Mig 29(IAF +IN)
50 Mirages

By the way how many 4 and 4.5 Gen. a/c Pakistan will be having?

Is this a professional estimate by your air force or is it just a member-based guess? I am interested to know.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Is this based on some solid claim by your defense ministry or is it the usual exaggeration that is normally seen in your post? Please back up your claims with sources. Currently, your economy is in no condition to maintain a 1,000 aircraft air force.

Do you have any idea how much it would cost your country to just operate and maintain that size of aircraft fleet even if you manage to get it free from somewhere. Please don't make castles in the air and if there are indeed castles we the international audience would be really interested to know a valid official source.

Regarding the highlighted part, No country till date has had 30 aircraft projects underway.. Not even United States with an economy more than 50 times yours and not even a Soviet Union with the most heavily-armed superpower in the history of mankind.

Stop producing gasbag if you don't have a source backing your claim of "30 aircraft projects".


Is this a professional estimate by your air force or is it just a member-based guess? I am interested to know.

May be you should check out chinese airforce section and their up coming plane projects ^_^ , why angry at me for what I read I conveyed I am just the messenger don't kill me ...

Every thing Stealth to Attack helicopters to drones , and god ..
but the list was long .. very LONG ... I only counted 10-15 by visual inspection I said man , these chinese sure love their Fighter jet projects

Do you know they have 300 trainer jets alone ?? Trainer jets alone - and also they have reserve planes, which I did not even count in their airforce plane count , you could technically put a missile on these trainers if needed too

ALL IN THE PIPELINE on top of 2286 Fighter planes they already have ...

1- Chengdu J-10B
2- Shenyang J-11C
3- Chengdu J-13
4- Shenyang J-14
5- Shenyang DarkSword
6- Thunderbolt UCAV
7- Zhanying
8 - Scan Eagle
9 - Yak-152K
10 - Harbin Z-15
11- Y-8G ELINT
12- Y-20
13- Tianyan-2
14- Shenyang J-11D
15- Shenyang J-11E
16- Shenyang J-15 Flying Shark
17- Shenyang J-16
18- Shenyang J-18 Red Eagle
19- Shenyang J-20
20- Xian JH-7B
21- YFC-1E
22- Chengdu J-10C
23- Xian H-8
24- H-9 bomber
25- FC-20
26 - JF17 Thunder block 2<--- this here is us yeah...

Aproximately 30 projects in aviation alone !!!!!

I mean its just ... amazing so many high tech projects being done in China

Pakistan airforce we already know what our story is with JF17 Thunder and F16 Etc so that is another story

Its probbly best we all sat down and discussed peace efforts ... war will lead to nothing the outcome is not pleasent

I mean peace brings prosperity to whole region

 

[Storm Force]

AZADPAKISTAN.

Wat is the size of PLAAF or CHINA military power going to do in a INDO PAK WAR.

During Kargil in 99 the chinease DID NOT LIFT A FINGER.

IN 1971 INDIA INVADED EAST PAKISTAN to create the nation of Bangladesh inside 12 days.

Nixon sent the USA NAVY to stop INDIA they arrived TO LATE from the Pacific..

CHINA who was next door did nothing.

DON,T RELY ON CHINA just cause they SELL you weapons.

 

[samika]

azadpakistan,

don't you feel ashamed that you cannot sing the very same song for your own country?

Where were they during 1999, 1971?

Fantasy is good, but only if you don't get blind by it.

Or instead, Change your nationality to Chinese.

Yes, China is very strong, we don't stand a chance, but do you stans a chance against India?

Then buckle up, and shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KEETARP]

After every effort to derail thread , lets try to analyze the chances of E-fighter in MRCA.

For me personally its just out of reach for us , i am utterly disappointed at budget by honorable DEF MIN,
mrca needs 15 billion+ to have RAFALE/EUROFIGHTER ;infact F18 req 13 billions alone for fighters.
Additinally 35billion will be required to get spares,logistics,repairs,upgrades for next 30-40 years i.e lifetime of aircraft.
Add another 10 billion for all a2a and a2g weapons package for next 10 years.
Now chances of f18 -Till U.S gov clears full radar tech i dont think it will win , scalled down version will not be accepted (same goes for f16)

eurofighter/rafale - Way to expensive for a country with defence budget of mere 32 billion like ours.

Gripen- only affordable jet rt now , new aesa is on way .
Only thing hampering is f114 engine - if our defence planners get TEJAS engine as f114 fpr mk2 , then gripen will be clear winner.

Mig35- well given problems with earlier birds and recent issues of corrosion with russian migs and indian fears attached to it seems lees likely, but is only second option left , might be a winner ;who knows .
Seems IAF will get to fly russain+Indian planes only

one most important factor is integration of weapon-
US/Europe wont allow ASTRA/PYTHON5 ON F18/Rafale/Eurofighter/gripen.
Raytheon and MBDA are major stock holders in respective country so just wont allow losses by letting india use its choice of weapons.

In the end best thing would have been 126 mirage2000-5mk2/9 version .
Since bus has been missed , way out is let LCA mature in december and get descent radar form israel/russia + integrate all available weapons that is LCA with R77 + ASTRA + Meteor + ASRAAM+PYTHON+MICA.
give it all role possible and move to mca quickly.
I regard planners of Pakistan air force in this context, they have given JOINT fighter best chance by allowing verstality of CHINESE+EUROPEAN+AMERICAN weapons and goodies.
250 jf17 on any given day with bvr will be a headache to any airforce.
We need to replicate it soon with Lca

Lstly End this whole mrca thing quickly and reduce number to afford in 12 billions even if 12 bill gets us only 36 jets like Brazil.
I have given up hope on MRCA - its more of getting political+strategic leverage now.

 

[KEETARP]

cont from above post
And Yes i forgot abt f35 talk , just not possible -Jet itself is having problems and cost is just too much

 

[DMLA]

The price quoted by the media (Indian) is for the aircrafts alone. It does not include service/ spares/ support/ weapons package, etc. eurofighter and rafale cost close to $100 million without said support. So I don't see any issue with them being selected on the basis of price. What could be a dampner for the Euro-canards will be technology - specifically AESA radar. Let us see what happens!

PS: Prices quoted for Brazil include 30 years of support & a comprehensive weapons package.

 

[sancho]

Sorry for late reply because i was out of station ..

For me i love Rafeal ..but its not the case MIG-35 will come late to India because the production will start only after 2013 i think and Rafeal and Typhoons are more expensive toys..So India has high chance for settling with F-18's..If the rumour is correct its F-18's tops all the flight evaluation

Can you provide a source for those roumor?

 

[sancho]

eurofighter/rafale - Way to expensive for a country with defence budget of mere 32 billion like ours.

72 EF T2 and 96 Rafale F2 was offered to Saudi for $8,8 and $8 billions, what means 126 will fit in the budget too, but possibly with the minimum numbers of 126 fighters only.

one most important factor is integration of weapon-
US/Europe wont allow ASTRA/PYTHON5 ON F18/Rafale/Eurofighter/gripen.
Raytheon and MBDA are major stock holders in respective country so just wont allow losses by letting india use its choice of weapons.

Actually, our Mirage 2k use US paveway bombs and if I'm not wrong also the R73 was integrated, so why shouldn't they allow it on Rafale? Saab had offered the use of Israeli and even Russian weapons and so Indian won't be a problem anyway. At the end, it is only a matter of money, if we are ready to pay for the integration, we can nearly use any weapon we want (at least at the Russian and European fighters).

250 jf17 on any given day with bvr will be a headache to any airforce.

I just said it in the Pakistani defense section too, JF will only be the low end fighter of PAF and not more capable then our low end fighters for this decade (Mig 29 SMT, Mirage 2005 and LCA MK1/2) too. Not that JF 17 is not good, but it has only similar techs and weapons like our fighters, so no reason to make them better as they are. Even in numbers they won't be a bigger threat, because our low end will have a similar size (69 Migs, 51 M2Ks, 40 ordered LCA MK1, 100 + the option of 50 more MK2).

The real threat of PAF are their AWACS, F16s and if they get it J10 Bs, because they give more advantages and will be ready till 2015 too. Exactly that's why we need more capable fighters through MMRCA, besides the MKI!
Low RCS, good EWS, long range missiles, in combination with good passive detection techs and datal links will be the most important points to avoid their AWACS and engage their fighters in BVR.
Which should benefit the European fighters, with their new and not only upgraded designs the most.

 

[Ingis]

People are so retarded to think India will become a "superpower" by getting these Eurofighters.

India should learn to build quality fighters rather than buying them from other countries.

No superpower depends on other nations for military know-how.

 

[Trichy]

May be you should check out chinese airforce section and their up coming plane projects ^_^ , why angry at me for what I read I conveyed I am just the messenger don't kill me ...

Every thing Stealth to Attack helicopters to drones , and god ..
but the list was long .. very LONG ... I only counted 10-15 by visual inspection I said man , these chinese sure love their Fighter jet projects

Do you know they have 300 trainer jets alone ?? Trainer jets alone - and also they have reserve planes, which I did not even count in their airforce plane count , you could technically put a missile on these trainers if needed too

ALL IN THE PIPELINE on top of 2286 Fighter planes they already have ...

1- Chengdu J-10B
2- Shenyang J-11C
3- Chengdu J-13
4- Shenyang J-14
5- Shenyang DarkSword
6- Thunderbolt UCAV
7- Zhanying
8 - Scan Eagle
9 - Yak-152K
10 - Harbin Z-15
11- Y-8G ELINT
12- Y-20
13- Tianyan-2
14- Shenyang J-11D
15- Shenyang J-11E
16- Shenyang J-15 Flying Shark
17- Shenyang J-16
18- Shenyang J-18 Red Eagle
19- Shenyang J-20
20- Xian JH-7B
21- YFC-1E
22- Chengdu J-10C
23- Xian H-8
24- H-9 bomber
25- FC-20
26 - JF17 Thunder block 2<--- this here is us yeah...

Aproximately 30 projects in aviation alone !!!!!

I mean its just ... amazing so many high tech projects being done in China

Pakistan airforce we already know what our story is with JF17 Thunder and F16 Etc so that is another story

Its probbly best we all sat down and discussed peace efforts ... war will lead to nothing the outcome is not pleasent

I mean peace brings prosperity to whole region

ha

I think Both FC-20 & J10 series are same but you say different,

 

[faithfulguy]

People are so retarded to think India will become a "superpower" by getting these Eurofighters.

India should learn to build quality fighters rather than buying them from other countries.

No superpower depends on other nations for military know-how.

Who said that India will become a "superpower" by getting these Eurofighters. I do not see any such talk.

However, Indian can know what its like to be a superpower if it purchase US jets.

 

[faithfulguy]

ha

I think Both FC-20 & J10 series are same but you say different,

they can be different. is su30MKI the same as any russian planes

 

[KEETARP]

Price of 105million dosent include
spares
weapons
tot
if you include that price will be close to 170+

Look at what price australia got f18- 150+ for each plane.
UAE got 72 eurofighter for 8 billion

 

[Trichy]

72 eurofighter for 8billion, b'cos they buy them in fly-away condition. But India willing to manufacture 108 out of 126 in India. So the price come down aswell