EADS Eurofighter in the MRCA competition Thread

[sancho]

Selex Deal Will Put AESA Radars on RAF Typhoons
By andrew chuter
Published: 16 Feb 2010 08:04
Print Print | Print Email

LONDON - The Royal Air Force could be test flying an active electronically scanned array radar on a Typhoon fighter within three years following a deal between the British Ministry of Defence and Selex Galileo to develop and build the key new sensor as part of a technology demonstrator program...

...Selex Galileo, an arm of Italian-based Finmeccanica, has signed a 19 million pound ($29.8 million) contract with the MoD to lead a demonstrator program likely to run for up to five years as the British look to de-risk the technology ahead of a likely fielding on Eurofighter-built Typhoons, said an MoD source...

...Bob Mason, senior vice president for sales and marketing for radar and advanced targeting at Selex Galileo, confirmed he expects to have the new AESA radar flying on a British Typhoon in the 2013 timeframe but said the precise date was dependent on progress with development and the availability of an airframe.

Selex Deal Will Put AESA Radars on RAF Typhoons - Defense News

To sum it up:

There is only an AESA demonstrator program running, which most likey needs 3 years from now, till the first AESA radars can be tested on EF and 2 more years till the technology will be mature enough for operational service. And all this only if the member countries agree to this development this year!

 

[Dash]

Selex Deal Will Put AESA Radars on RAF Typhoons - Defense News

To sum it up:

There is only an AESA demonstrator program running, which most likey needs 3 years from now, till the first AESA radars can be tested on EF and 2 more years till the technology will be mature enough for operational service. And all this only if the member countries agree to this development this year!

This means $100 million with out AESA. Doesnt sound good at all.
I actually feel $100 million for EFT is very high as any plane with same tech will actually not cost that much. The economy of scale is the price escalator for Europeans.

After AESA, meteor is not coming soon either.
I dont find a reason at all in buying this plane. Go Rafale or at the least go F-18SH.

Can anyone tell me if the PIRATE is the best IRST that its got? are theere any better IRST?....

 

[jha]

how about some fotos..eh..







http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S31ioU23JiI/AAAAAAAACF4/lPoJaFu5UtU/s1600-h/EF_1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S31inx4JWMI/AAAAAAAACFw/qihm2VOvoL4/s1600-h/EF_2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S31inZ_kfsI/AAAAAAAACFo/W3A1vYtOrLk/s1600-h/EF_3.jpg

 

[Dash]

how about some fotos..eh..







EF_1.jpg (image)

EF_2.jpg (image)

EF_3.jpg (image)

Sorry couldnt access the links, office Website. can you paste the pics to this forum?

 

[jha]

 

[notting hill]

today i saw the simulator of typhoon. it ws so so so so kool .. i wasn''t allowed to get inside the demonstrator since a minister was taking a joy ride .. but still i culd clearly see the numbers and alphabets on screen . it was simply breathtaking and much better than the F-16 cockpit i saw 2 years back in germany.

 

[Storm Force]

Any Air force

That operates 230 su30mki & 126 Typhoons will be one hell of an air power.

If you then start adding FGFA PAK FA from 2020 WE MAY BE TALKING ABOUT

Top 5 air power globally easily

The thought/ prospect is tremendous.

BUT IT WILL COST SERIOUS MONEY $$$

 

[BlackenTheSky]

Well eurofighter will be better choice for india than F 16.because f 16 is an 80's technology whereas euro is one of the latest craft.

 

[KEETARP]

For me
Winner of this DEAL will be the one whose engine is selected for Indigenous Fighter jet.
F18IN- f114 enhanced version
GRIPEN NG INDIA- same as above
Eurobird-Ej2000 version
Rafale-IF and only IF GTRE and SNMECA convince IAF that KAVERI would be operational by 2015.

I personally have this feeling ,
that a delta wing aircraft which INDIA's TEJAS also has is going to win it finally.That way EF2000 fits in all aspect , only price is going to be a factor blocking this.

And 2 of 6 contenders are practically out by recent reports- i guess they are F16+Mig35

 

[sancho]

For me
Winner of this DEAL will be the one whose engine is selected for Indigenous Fighter jet.
F18IN- f114 enhanced version
GRIPEN NG INDIA- same as above
Eurobird-Ej2000 version
Rafale-IF and only IF GTRE and SNMECA convince IAF that KAVERI would be operational by 2015.

No mate, although this could be an advantage in terms of logistic and maintenance, both competitions will be de-linked. Also Kaveri-Snecma might only be available in LCA for exports, or follow orders after the 100-150 LCA Mk2 that IAF wants. So for LCA it will be EJ 200 vs GE 414 only and this would be the best for IAF too, because although the EJ 200 is the best engine choice for LCA, EF is not the best choice in MMRCA.

 

[Icarus]

Interesting little comparison between J-10B and EF-2000:
(I am waiting for the approval of a picture in which both the planes have been drawn to scale against each other, will post it as soon as it is approved)
Advantage over the other aircraft is written in red.

Chengdu J-10:
General characteristics
Crew: 1 (basic), 2 (trainer variant)
Length: 15.5 m (50 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.7 m (31 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.78 m (15.7 ft)
Wing area: 39 m² (419.8 ft&#178
Empty weight: 8,000–9,730 kg (17,637–21,451 lb)
Loaded weight: 18,500 kg (40,785 lb)
Useful load: 4,500 kg (9,920 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 19,277 kg (42,500 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN turbofan
Dry thrust: 79.43 kN / 89.17 kN (17,860 lbf / 20,050 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 122.5 kN / 129.4 kN (27,557 lbf / 29,101 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level
g-limits: +9/-3 g (+88/-29 m/s², +290/-97 ft/s&#178(EF-2000 g-limit not given)
Combat radius:
On hi-lo-hi mission: 2,540 km (1,370 nautical miles) with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
On lo-lo-lo mission: 1,310 km (710 nautical miles with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
Maximum range (without refueling): 3,400 km (2,113 miles)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,055 ft)
Wing loading: 335 kg/m² (64 lb/ft&#178
Armament
Guns: 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon(Greater rate of fire)
Hardpoints: 11 in total (6× under-wing, 5× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 6,000 kg (13,228 lb) external fuel and ordnance


Eurofighter EF-2000:
General characteristics:
Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 50 m² (538 ft&#178
Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
Loaded weight: 15,550 kg[citation needed] (34,280 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,250 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2+ (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)
At sea level: Mach 1.2[180] (1470 km/h / 913.2 mph)
Supercruise: Mach 1.1[176]-1.5
Range: 2,900 km (1,840 mi)
Combat radius:
Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (373 nmi)
Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (115 nmi)
Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,300 mi)
Service ceiling: 19,810 m (65,000 ft)
Rate of climb: >315 m/s (62,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 307 kg/m² (63 lb/ft&#178
Armament
Guns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon with 150 rounds(Larger round)
Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8× under-wing plus 5× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 16,500 lb (7,500 kg) of payload

 

[sancho]

Interesting little comparison between J-10B and EF-2000:
(I am waiting for the approval of a picture in which both the planes have been drawn to scale against each other, will post it as soon as it is approved)
Advantage over the other aircraft is written in red.

Chengdu J-10:
General characteristics
Crew: 1 (basic), 2 (trainer variant)
Length: 15.5 m (50 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 9.7 m (31 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.78 m (15.7 ft)
Wing area: 39 m² (419.8 ft²)
Empty weight: 8,000–9,730 kg (17,637–21,451 lb)
Loaded weight: 18,500 kg (40,785 lb)
Useful load: 4,500 kg (9,920 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 19,277 kg (42,500 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Saturn-Lyulka AL-31FN turbofan
Dry thrust: 79.43 kN / 89.17 kN (17,860 lbf / 20,050 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 122.5 kN / 129.4 kN (27,557 lbf / 29,101 lbf)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 at altitude, Mach 1.2 at sea level
g-limits: +9/-3 g (+88/-29 m/s², +290/-97 ft/s²)(EF-2000 g-limit not given)
Combat radius:
On hi-lo-hi mission: 2,540 km (1,370 nautical miles) with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
On lo-lo-lo mission: 1,310 km (710 nautical miles with 4,000lb/1,814kg bombload and two air-to-air missiles
Maximum range (without refueling): 3,400 km (2,113 miles)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,055 ft)
Wing loading: 335 kg/m² (64 lb/ft²)
Armament
Guns: 1× 23mm twin-barrel cannon(Greater rate of fire)
Hardpoints: 11 in total (6× under-wing, 5× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 6,000 kg (13,228 lb) external fuel and ordnance


Eurofighter EF-2000:
General characteristics:
Crew: 1 (operational aircraft) or 2 (training aircraft)
Length: 15.96 m (52 ft 5 in)
Wingspan: 10.95 m (35 ft 11 in)
Height: 5.28 m (17 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 50 m² (538 ft²)
Empty weight: 11,000 kg (24,250 lb)
Loaded weight: 15,550 kg[citation needed] (34,280 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 23,500 kg (51,800 lb)
Powerplant: 2× Eurojet EJ200 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 60 kN (13,500 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,250 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2+ (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)
At sea level: Mach 1.2[180] (1470 km/h / 913.2 mph)
Supercruise: Mach 1.1[176]-1.5
Range: 2,900 km (1,840 mi)
Combat radius:
Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (373 nmi)
Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (115 nmi)
Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (863 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,300 mi)
Service ceiling: 19,810 m (65,000 ft)
Rate of climb: >315 m/s (62,000 ft/min)
Wing loading: 307 kg/m² (63 lb/ft²)
Armament
Guns: 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon with 150 rounds(Larger round)
Hardpoints: Total of 13: 8× under-wing plus 5× under-fuselage pylon stations holding up to 16,500 lb (7,500 kg) of payload

First of all, if you take speculative specs of J10B, you also should include possible upgrades of EF T3, because both will available round the same time. EF most likely will have more thrust, possibly TVC and CFTs that UK seems to want. So that could make a big difference in range and speed.
However, going by the specs u provided, I see only an advantage at the max speed (if the specs are reliable). Apart from that the J10 will clearly be inferior!

 

[Icarus]

First of all, if you take speculative specs of J10B, you also should include possible upgrades of EF T3, because both will available round the same time. EF most likely will have more thrust, possibly TVC and CFTs that UK seems to want. So that could make a big difference in range and speed.
However, going by the specs u provided, I see only an advantage at the max speed (if the specs are reliable). Apart from that the J10 will clearly be inferior!

J-10 provides a smaller target area, is faster and has a greater range..................However the Eurofighter takes the cake when it comes to max take off weight, service ceiling and the sheer number of missiles and bombs it can carry(hard points) aka brute strength, as for the J-10B being inferior, i would call you daft if you spent 63 million euros per unit on a plane that couldn't outperform an aeroplane half it's price....................
But in the end, it pretty much boils down to the man in the cockpit.

 

[Icarus]

First of all, if you take speculative specs of J10B, you also should include possible upgrades of EF T3, because both will available round the same time. EF most likely will have more thrust, possibly TVC and CFTs that UK seems to want. So that could make a big difference in range and speed.
However, going by the specs u provided, I see only an advantage at the max speed (if the specs are reliable). Apart from that the J10 will clearly be inferior!

P.S, these are specs of J-10A, the Pakistani version will incorporate western electronic systems and most probably compatibility with american missiles(so i have heard).

 

[jagjitnatt]

P.S, these are specs of J-10A, the Pakistani version will incorporate western electronic systems and most probably compatibility with american missiles(so i have heard).

These are just the dimensional specs with a few non technical specs thrown in. There is no mention of turn radius, acceleration, maneuverability, ease of flying, radar range and effectiveness, datalink technologies, weapon capabilities, countermeasures, Radar detection, lowest flying speed, and a whole lot of things.

The specs listed have little or no importance in the role of a fighter aircraft. Even the Mig21 might beat F22 on some of the specs.
You've gotta go into detail and discuss the technical capabilities.

In every way, the EF Typhoon beats the J10 in every aspect.