Dutch Muslims condemn MP's film

[su-47]

Roadrunner, there's a difference between race and religion. a hell of a difference.

For example, there are christians in every race in the world. so, for example, if i say that all christians are dogs, which race am i insulting? the answer is none. i am not insulting any race. i am insulting a religion.

just like that, when the dutch MP slammed islam, he is insulting the religion, not any race. By the way, does islam even have a race? there are muslims in africa, middle east, europe and far east. there are white, black, chinese, arabic and indian subcontinental muslims. so by accusing the dutch MP of racism, which race is being referred to? did he insult all these races by insulting islam?

 

[Spring Onion]

Roadrunner, there's a difference between race and religion. a hell of a difference.

For example, there are christians in every race in the world. so, for example, if i say that all christians are dogs, which race am i insulting? the answer is none. i am not insulting any race. i am insulting a religion.

just like that, when the dutch MP slammed islam, he is insulting the religion, not any race. By the way, does islam even have a race? there are muslims in africa, middle east, europe and far east. there are white, black, chinese, arabic and indian subcontinental muslims. so by accusing the dutch MP of racism, which race is being referred to? did he insult all these races by insulting islam?

So in other words Insulting a religion is allowed and justified???

DO you ??

 

[Flintlock]

So in other words Insulting a religion is allowed and justified???

DO you ??

Yes actually, in a secular country, as the west defines secularism, it is perfectly legal to "insult" a religion.

However, secularism as south Asia defines it, means that you can't insult any religion.

 

[solid snake]

So in other words Insulting a religion is allowed and justified???

DO you ??

Yes, absolutely. Just like insulting anything else in this world is justified if you feel it should be insulted.

 

[Spring Onion]

Yes, absolutely. Just like insulting anything else in this world is justified if you feel it should be insulted.

Yes actually, in a secular country, as the west defines secularism, it is perfectly legal to "insult" a religion.

However, secularism as south Asia defines it, means that you can't insult any religion.

Ok. And what about insulting some symboles like National flags, like tearing copies of a constitution or let me ask this way.

If insulting a religion in a secular country is allowed on the basis of freedom of speech then i am confused why in the same manner Courts can not be crtiticised or insulted if one feels they should be insulted ??

 

[Flintlock]

Ok. And what about insulting some symboles like National flags, like tearing copies of a constitution or let me ask this way.

If insulting a religion in a secular country is allowed on the basis of freedom of speech then i am confused why in the same manner Courts can not be crtiticised or insulted if one feels they should be insulted ??

Because, the constitution is not a dogma. It is a result of years of meticulous discussion, debate and study. There is no blind faith involved here.

If people feel that the constitution is wrong, it can be amended in parliament.

I hope you understand the difference now.

 

[solid snake]

Ok. And what about insulting some symboles like National flags, like tearing copies of a constitution or let me ask this way.

If insulting a religion in a secular country is allowed on the basis of freedom of speech then i am confused why in the same manner Courts can not be crtiticised or insulted if one feels they should be insulted ??

You're allowed to burn the US flag in America and also a copy of the constitution if you want. The only thing that is illegal is that you cannot fly any other flag higher than the US flag.

 

[Spring Onion]

You're allowed to burn the US flag in America and also a copy of the constitution if you want. The only thing that is illegal is that you cannot fly any other flag higher than the US flag.

But why is it illegal to fly any other flag higher than the US flag????
It means there is also not full freedom of expression.
if someone to say a national of any other country residing in US feels to fly the flag of his own country higher than US flag what about his freedom of expression ???

BTW i dint know that.
Thanks

Because, the constitution is not a dogma. It is a result of years of meticulous discussion, debate and study..

SA why not as constitution is also debated and dicussed by a bunch of people whom not neccessarily been elected by all the people of a country and they can not be representatives of each and everyone so why not if someone wants to tear the copy of the constitution or burn it.

Secondly i asked about insutling the Judiciary why not someone insult it or to put it this way why not to criticise it?

 

[Flintlock]

SA why not as constitution is also debated and dicussed by a bunch of people whom not neccessarily been elected by all the people of a country and they can not be representatives of each and everyone so why not if someone wants to tear the copy of the constitution or burn it.

Secondly i asked about insutling the Judiciary why not someone insult it or to put it this way why not to criticise it?

The Judiciary can be criticized in Parliament. It is called "due process".

Until a certain law is changed by parliament, the judiciary, and hence the constitution, is supposed to be respected.

(I am no constitutional expert...but this is what I've understood anyways)

 

[roadrunner]

How was the film by the murdered Dutch guy "childish insulting"? The film was making perfectly valid points based on absolutle facts. And The Satanic verses is a pretty good book, have you read it? It's just a fiction tale.

It is also a fictional tale, that only black people are derived from apes, and the rest of the human populations are not. Yet it is classed as derogatory and insulting. Why the need to protect only certain segments of society?

And I wasn't even referring to the Dutch film - I was referring to the Danish cartoons as "childishly insulting".

 

[roadrunner]

Unsubstantial, eh? You said nobody can bash Christianity in the US, I proved you wrong. Young people here make fun of Christianity all the time (along with all other religions). Even in Texas and other bible belts states people frequently make anti-religion and specifically anti-Christian speeches.

Texas is a part of this country, this show airs in Texas too. Why don't texans call for a ban on South Park? Oh that's right, because they have better things to do in their life than spend their time watching, reading, and listening to things that will offend them.

In southern states the KKK does marches on Martin Luther King Jr. Day and frequently black cops are assigned to protect them. This is called freedom of speech, what a great country. Anyone can say whatever they like, against whoever they like, any time they like, whereever they like.

You have hardly proved me wrong. My quote was this :

"In America, such ridiculing of Christianity would not be tolerated."

This means that in America, you cannot openly ridicule Christianity (I should have specified the Bible Belt).

I can guarantee you, in all your ignorance, cannot go to the bible belt areas of Texas and Kansas, stand up on a box with a loudspeaker, and start saying Christianity is a vile religion full of perverts, and Jesus was a so-and-so (since these aren't insulting according to you, it should make no difference if you offend Jesus). So my challenge to you, which will prove you wrong, is to go to such places in Texas or Kansas, and do this. Pull up a video of it, or get a friend to, since I'd imagine you lying in comatozed after this is over, especially since you'd look like a Muslim. If you can show such a video, THEN you will have proved me wrong, and you do have freedom of speech

As for your moronic references to South Park (which no doubts you watch while your nappy gets changed), this is nothing to do with what I said. South Park is a cartoon that appears on TV. Noone can ban it except the authorities, so people are basically powerless to do anything. I was not referring to this. I was referring to the feeling of insult felt by some segments of the Christian population in the Bible Belt, which you will find out if you ever have the ballz to do what I suggested you to do.

However, here are several references to such scenes, proving 1) they cause a lot of offence to Americans .

• "We're obviously surprised by the overwhelming response and offense people have taken," said Semler, adding that the Holy Week timing was a coincidence."
  NYC chocolate Jesus angers Catholics - USATODAY.com
  
  
• "The hotel and the gallery were overrun with angry phone calls and e-mails. Semler said there were death threats over the work of artist Cosimo Cavallaro.
  
  James Knowles, president of the Roger Smith, said public outrage was "crystal-clear," so executives wished to "affirm the dignity and responsibility of the hotel" by canceling the exhibition."
  Chocolate nude Jesus gets booted from hotel's gallery amid torrent of complaints - News - NY Daily News
  

2) That some will get banned

• "The city allowed a Hawaiian prayer dance, a belly dancer and other 'holiday' performers, and there was a tree-lighting ceremony afterward where a rabbi lighted a menorah, but six young girls wearing T-shirts with 'Jesus Dancer' and a cross silk-screened on them was too offensive," he said."
  WorldNetDaily: Banned 'Jesus Dancers' file federal suit

This also occurs if you google search

But of course you will be able to get on your soap box with your South Park CD in one hand in the middle of Bible County, and won't get beaten up for blaspheming against Christianity! You are only kidding yourself.

 

[roadrunner]

Some more links

BBC forced to removed 'bastard' slur about Jesus from its website | the Daily Mail

Armed man shot across street from CNN Center - CNN.com
Carnegie Hall sinks to Jerry Springer's level | Spero News

WorldNetDaily: Christmas CD banned for mentioning Jesus

 

[roadrunner]

But why is it illegal to fly any other flag higher than the US flag????
It means there is also not full freedom of expression.
if someone to say a national of any other country residing in US feels to fly the flag of his own country higher than US flag what about his freedom of expression ???

BTW i dint know that.
Thanks

Not sure he knows what he's on about. There is protocol, but not law, at least no US flag code carries the force of law.